Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-45051074-20200620005016/@comment-39718735-20200628012435

Kingasdfg wrote:

You're trying to use mathematics to prove the limitations of a metaphysical ability, and that is inherently doomed to fail. RtZ isn't something that has a quantifiable scale to compare with infinite.

Why not? You're adjudicating a metaphyisical side to an ability that's already limited by it's linguistical and mathematical description. A mathematical analysis should be more valid since it's based on more accurate logic. Saying his ability has no limits has way less ground to back it up.

The reason I say your definition is arbitrary is because you define it solely based on how you think it should be defined, rather than any definition given in the series.

And then you're trying to say how it'd be defined as well without considering any other possibility. My definition doesn't contradicts anything shown in the series but the fanon assumption that it's invincible and perfect (that even Araki contradicts several times in part 6. And no: he didn't mean SP:TW was only physical stronger neither he was excluding requiem stands since he talked about stands in general and GER is still a stand as much as Survivor is - he made no distinction ever at all. He even said stopping time is the strongest, invincible stand ability ever twice).

No one in universe provides any distinguishing factors between the two terms, so what makes your definition any more accurate than another?

And nothing in universe indicates both terms are used with the same meaning regarding to GER, moreover I have to correct a mistake in my favour: the indistinctive use of zero and null I'd pointed out was a mistake of mine, Araki only uses "NONE (なし)" as a description of his stats, he never uses neither zero nor null on them. The only one of both terms used is zero. So he doesn't mix up both terms in the end.

Objectively and in general both terms are indeed different, however I've acknowledge Araki may not take that approach too seriously as in any work of fiction in general: supposedly Polnareff can move at light speeds since it caught Hanged Man mid-air and it was reflecting through air: Then how fast was Emperor's bullet moving? And how fast was Avdol moving to tackle Polnareff before that bullet reached him? Does he also have time-stop and we didn't notice? Or does Avdol have access to the Speed Force?

To return to zero is to return to a state prior to its existence. If there is a point prior to its existence, then RtZ should work. This does not require an ending, only a traceable beginning, nor does the act of RtZ qualify as an ending; it's literally the exact opposite. Returning to a state prior to X's existence is drastically different from X ending.

It'd rather be back to the point of the beginning of it's existance (GER won't go back that point in time) and if there's a point after it's existance an infinite force should work. Whether it has a beginning doesn't matter. RtZ wouldn't interrupt that infinite to go back in time.

Also you're misdescribing GER saying it only needs a starting point. A thing you have pointed out is that Johnny's infinite is not absolute but potential, however you forget a detail: GER's zero is not absolute but relative, I'm gonna get even more technical now.

 *How you say it works (GER only needs a zero to work) 





*How it was shown to actually work (since it’s named return to zero, GER actively goes back to the starting point rewinding actions as shown in the anime)