Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-26912075-20180126234947/@comment-26912075-20180127224848

By that logic, Bleach is a fantastic manga because Kubo's only goal was to draw epic battles. "The Saigo no Getsuga Tenshou was cool, therefore you can't judge the fact that it completely came out of nowhere and was a convinent powerup in order to defeat aizen." That is basically what you said for Jojo translated to Bleach. Also, why should we settle for theme exploration in Jojo when it is completely inferior to so many manga and anime out there with much less logic in the story with much less interesting characters?

Part 2: Joseph doing that was bs. He had no idea what he was doing and simply did it through muscle memory. In storytelling, we call that Deus Ex Machina. He did one simple move and by sheer luck that was the one thing he needed to do in order to defeat the opponent. That victory was completely unearned. It would've been much better if Kars simply died in the volcano. Also, using the excuse that it's just for children can be used to excuse any bad plot element in the majority of shows. Even kid's shows should bother to have a sensical ending, otherwise it proves that the creators really don't care about the show simply because it is a kid's show. I think you and I could both agree that that isn't the attitude one should have when crafting any type of series.

Part 3: What's the point of a carthartic victory when it was completely unearned? Jotaro just happened to have the one thing that could defeat DIO inside him the whole time. It's the same thing I described with Mugetsu above.

Part 4: Hayato didn't need to shout his name, he could've simply stated that his father was a fake and a murderer and that would have gotten the same effect. If he wasn't a threat, then what was the point of making him the main villain? A villain should be able to defeat and kill the main hero. Otherwise he's not that much of a villain.

Part 5: As we all know, calling the person you are debating a dumbass gives credence to your argument. The Requiem arrow is just stupid. There just so happens to be one arrow out of all the others that just happens to give you a powerup when you already have your stand. It's just a simple macguffin, because otherwise Giorno wouldn't stand a chance in hell of defeating Diavolo. Also, I agree that it could have been a good powerup, however, it wasn't. The requiem should've given Giorno a power that just put it above King Crimson in order to have an actual battle. If all you have to do is stab yourself with an object in order to make you Super Saiyan, then anyone who has the object should immediately do it no matter the circumstances. Diavolo could've also activated King Crimson and killed Giorno way before he had the chance to stab himself with the arrow.

Part 6: I never said that that was the reason why their struggles are pointless. Even if the heroes don't win in the end, their affects can still be felt on the world around them. For instance, if a hero valiantly dies in battle against an opponent, he will be remembered and made as an icon for future generations to look up to or judge. This ending completely made it so that all the struggles of the previous heroes and villains were completely meaningless because whatever they did were completely erased. How am I now supposed to care about what Giorno, Joseph, or Jonathan acheived when all of what they did didn't matter in the end. Yeah, some sacrifice. It's not like they all got ressurected 5 chapters later... Oh...

Part 7: 6 chapters in an arc that is over 100 long is not really justifiable. The Super Spin popped out of nowhere, again, like the Final Getsuga Tensho in Bleach. The Spin in and of itself is convoluted and doesn't make much sense once you stop to think about it. The main problems with these part endings are that the powers that the heroes use to win come completely out of left field and just leave the feeling of a nonsensical and unearned victory.

Heroes overcoming the odds can be used to justify anything in a story with heroes and villains in it. "The way Ichigo defeated Yhwach made no sense!" "Oh no, but he's the protagonist and the protagonist needs to win in these types of stories." "Naruto gaining a powerup that put him in a position to defeat Kaguya and Madara was bullshit." "Well, the story is meant to have the heores win, so it doesn't need an explanation." See what I mean? I agree that characters in jojo are much more emotive and investing than a majority of shonen stories out there, but they shouldn't be excuses for the plot making no sense in areas. "Plot holes don't matter, what matters is that the characters get their due victory because they're good and their enemies are evil." That sentence couldn't be any more wrong. Plot holes and convienences make a character's struggles to seem meaningless as he was always meant to win throught the hand of God. I get that in the majority of anime the hero will always manage to win, but their victory should make sense in order to make their stuggle seem valid. If they win through plot it makes the whole story seem worthless as there was no reason to care about the struggle of the main character. If he's going to win regardless of the odds, then what's the point of being invested in his struggle in the first place? Whatever, I have probably spent too much time on such an insiginficant facet of life. Oh, how spare time can get to us all. Have a nice day.