Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-1739368-20121205124732/@comment-32973614-20190402160658

Patfv wrote: scenario 1, dio uses his ability first, dio wins, scenario 2, diavolo uses his ability first, dio wins, i'm pretty sure i already posted the page from the manga here literally saying that "time stop is the most invincible and strongest stand ability that has ever existed", i'm pretty sure too that i already posted scenes from the manga showing that all the actions that happens inside the time skip are not erased, with that, yeah, dio wins, even if diavolo activates time skip first, he can't predict a time that doesn't flow, he can't erase that time, because again, time is stopped, diavolo forecast a hole in his chest, activates the time erase, dio stops time, time is not being erased anymore, because it's STOPPED, if time is not being erased, dio is not being affect by it's effect, he will not act blindly, he will have free control of his actions, and WILL kill diavolo inside that time, if diavolo forecast a hole in his chest, than he already lost, even the eyes of heaven game portrays this, time stop counter the time skip in the game, so we have the game, the manga, an interview with araki himself (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTh1woTmDqs&t=374s 5:20) saying that time stop is stronger, so, no, diavolo loses to dio and jotaro in all of the scenarios Did you even read? I stated it clearly, If Diavolo uses KC first, he can predict Dio's INITIAL and FINAL position (i doubt that you would argue with this, correct me if i'm wrong), so BEFORE the ability activates and AFTER the timestop, not DURING, i never supposed that Diavolo could see that, you are just making it up for the sake of your argument. Time gets stopped DURING time erased, so Dio would behave like anyone else in erased time (if he doesn't trigger The World he's powerless, right? So he is powerless also just before activating it, it wouldn't make sense to think otherwise, so he would stop time in a condition in which he's powerless). Diavolo, who is not an idiot, would stay away from Dio's inital and final position, and he would be safe because Dio wouldn't move away too much, and it's all but guaranteed that he would see a hole in his chest, that's Epitaph and it's a different ability that what allows Diavolo to predict things in erased time, just look at the manga, where KC avoids Sticky Fingers, it would look the same except with a "teleportation".

So time stop is stronger? Ok, good to know, let's say i believe you, and don't assume that i disagree, so what? Do you know how many stands were beaten by weaker ones through the use of strategy or a counter? Lovers, Baby Face, Killer Queen, Bad company, B.I.G. and many others (stronger that their opponents at the time of the fight, not in general, agree or disagree on these examples, it's irrelevant).

In few words, KC may have a weaker ability, but it's similar and just slightly weaker, the events in Dio's mansion and S. Giorgio were very similar in how the 2 stands played with the characters, to make an example, you are just assuming that everything is as simple as "Time Stop is stronger, so Dio always wins", and that's not true, because neither stand can counter the other, as KC can't make Diavolo move in time stopped and The World would "pause" a bit of time that's going to be erased anyway, so whoever activates the ability first gets a free hit, which means victory unless stupidly wasted.

Also you can't point out something said by a character in the manga as absolute truth, characters may be wrong, just like The Empress (the mineral stand, it may not be the empress, i'm not 100% sure) having teeth as hard as diamond, the lovers calling itself weak or "there is no world in the mirror".