Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-46616496-20200814001314/@comment-38952966-20200815061529

Again, we don't know Wonder of U's limitations yet. All I'm saying is that I'd consider postponing its inclusion on this list until we know more about it. If it turns out to have a really obvious weakness, it'll drop notably.

Johnny is uncannily good at determining Stand abilities with only little information. If Diego can figure out how D4C works, so can Johnny. It's also never shown that Valentine can travel to universes dramatically different from the root universe. In every universe he traveled to when trying to escape the infinite rotation, Johnny had Tusk and was his enemy. They may not have ACT 4, but it still doesn't solve the problem.

Additionally, it's explicitly stated and shown several times that only Johnny can enter ACT 3's holes. Hell, he can even use them to shoot wounds off his body. The mobile and defensive nature of Tusk ACT 3 is a great counter to D4C's annihilation ability, either by hiding inside the holes to avoid his counterpart or by using them to escape the range, as it's shown that objects need to be close together to be annihilated. Plus, Valentine can't just shove another Johnny into the root world without aiming, so he does have to enter the root world himself. Since Tusk ACT 4 can persist inside of objects to wait for its target, it's bound to hit Valentine eventually. Morality off is different from a character acting like an optimized robot. Hell, Johnny doesn't have much morality anyway.

Ok, I'll admit that Cream was a bad example. But still, I'm curious as to your thoughts against another Stand like, say, Star Platinum.

It's somewhat unclear what the range is on Heaven's Door, but it is presumably a close range type and therfore at a disadvantage against long-distance types. That said, as long as an enemy sees Rohan's drawings, Heaven's Door should work, no matter what.

It's honestly been so long since I've read Stone Ocean that I could be absolutely wrong about Bohemian Rhapsody. I think I repressed most of it, anyway, so I might be pulling stuff out of my ass.

I think it's kind of problematic, however, to use "who could beat who" as a metric for strength. This is Jojo, and in the right circumstance anyone could beat anyone. By limiting it to one very specific environment, I think you take away a lot of what makes certain Stands really useful. Red Hot Chili Pepper, for example, could overpower about half your list, but under the specific rules you've put in place, it would be very weak. I don't think you're wrong, I just think you should allow for a greater variety of environments, since environment plays such a big part in fights in Jojo.