Board Thread:Anime/Game Discussion/@comment-34882417-20190706120552/@comment-44307343-20200906025819

Paul7889 wrote: Kingasdfg wrote: Paul7889 wrote: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Arigarmy/Gold_Experience_Requiem

"Aside from the non-canon The World Over Heaven" -

Araki not only illustrated the characters, he also made the plot of it, therefore it is canon. Tusk Act 4 and GER would nullify each other, because as stated in the stand description you posted, actions are reset to zero and Tusk Act 4 has infinite power, which is equivalent to 4th dimensional power.

"Giorno could just say that the action of you living never happened, which is literally what he does to Diavolo." -

GER can only revert things back to zero that he witnessed. Nothing that happened before it's existence/activation. It also can't revert something that never happened, so GER had to kill Diavolo first in order to loop that certain event over and over again. You said that GER has no loopholes, but GER only reverts things back to zero if Giorno deems it as evil and us not knowing how to exploit it, wouldn't be proof enough to know it doesn't work.

"It's shown in the Risotto vs. Doppio fight that nothing except Diavolo exists in erased time, meaning physical objects become intangible if they are fated to move in that duration." - Someone didn't get how King Crimson works, huh? If nothing but Diavolo existed in erased time, why did he precisely erase time to literally avoid bullets. The entire world still exists and works just as normally as ever even when time is erased. But since "time" doesn't exist that moment for anyone but Diavolo, every event happens infinitely fast for them and Diavolo can't interact with anything in the world. This means that GER merely remained consciousness and the perception of time. You don't need to exist outside of time and space for this. Not to mention that IF GER were to exist outside of space and time, it wouldn't be able to interact with the 3D world, because according to physics, GER would literally create energy out of nowhere and destroy balance. If time didn't exist, everything would happen infinitely fast.

" the infinite death loop does not require that Giorno kill the target for it to take effect." -

"Those who are struck by this power will have even their deaths reverted to zero" - Being struck by the power of reversion, not punches.

The description of the stand ability is just one example of what GER could do. It's like saying: "Wow, he can even do that!" Nothing more.

GER only has one power and that is to nullify actions. Existing is not an action btw, it's a state. It is literally just utilizing its power to nullfy actions, no matter what GER does. There's nothing more. You interprete way too much into this. What the hell are you even on, my guy?

The World Over Heaven is not canon. As stated above, Araki did not write the story for Eyes of Heaven but "oversaw" it, which could mean anything from giving a single idea to looking at the final product and saying "sure, whatever". We have no idea how involved he was, but considering how badly Eyes of Heaven contradicts canon, I'd say he probably wasn't very involved. Regardless, Eyes of Heaven is not canon and neither is The World Over Heaven.

I don't know where you got this bizarre idea that erased time is somehow related to "infinite speed". That's never mentioned anywhere, not in source material or out of it. Not only that, we say how infinite speed works in the form of Made in Heaven, which functions dramatically differently from King Crimson. Diavolo removes himself from the flow of linear time for 10 seconds so as to defy Epitaph's predictions while erasing the time in which he was absent. GER's ability to interact with and communicate with Diavolo during time that doesn't exist is an indicator of acausality, where it is not bound by the rules of cause and effect and hence not limited by time and space as we understand it.

We don't know if Giorno has to directly kill someone in order to activate the infinite death loops. We don't even know what "having your will set to zero" actually means. We can't argue for or against those abilities entirely because we don't know how they work or what their limitations are. What we DO know is that GER is capable of automatically protecting Giorno, even during time that doesn't exist. We know that Giorno can control GER to some degree, as he directed it to attack Diavolo and knew about the infinite death loops. And we know that GER is physically capable enough to overpower even a strong Stand like King Crimson in direct combat.

I don't believe that GER is all powerful. There are obvious limits to what it's capable of. It can't just will people not to exist, and it probably can't RtZ anything prior to its own existence, either as a hard limitation or because it would change events to much that GER might not exist. But it's still undoubtedly the strongest Stand in the series so far and no other Stand can actually take it out. I guess you are right with Eyes of Heaven being non-canon, even though Araki supervised it, but I still believe it portrays the power scaling in a certain way. I think we can all agree that GER can't beat Over Heaven stands.

"I don't know where you got this bizarre idea that erased time is somehow related to "infinite speed"."

As I said already, if time didn't exist, everything would happen instantly. Time just exists so it seems like stuff progresses slowly. This doesn't have to be stated anywhere, it's logic and physic. Since time doesn't exist for anyone but Diavolo, other characters seem to have a cut in their point of view, because they still did everything they would normally do. This looks like to me as if only their perception of time is gone, nothing more. That's comparable to sleeping and GER was able to stay awake. So when Diavolo erases time, everyone is still existing. Time doesn't decide if something can happen or not. Actually, this just means that saying that KC "erases time" is just blantly wrong. The ability does something completely different. Erasing time doesn't make you intangible to the normal world. That would be existing outside of space-time. All of it speaks for this. He can't interact with the normal world anymore, but at the same time everyone else loses their perception of time. GER didn't actually interact with Diavolo himself while time was "erased", but he could speak I guess. This makes GER 4th dimensional at least. You know that GER's ability is to neutralize an event, so I strongly believe that GER has to kill someone in order to neutralize the death and then kills again over and over again. the infinite speed ger debate came from the fact that ger could talk and move in time erase while giorno couldnt.

but then it was dropped and ger was given unnown speed by many people