I still don’t understand the painting trick he did on jotaro in the beginning so if that mechanism is revealed I might change my opinion but

It’s an alright stand I guess. But in terms of stands in whole with the sbr universe? I think it’s a stand that would hav wits place in higher mid tier to lower high tier

Maybe like A- tier on a tier list of E to SS

Only SBR stands that would trash Kakyoin was TA4/BB, LT, and TW,

Everyone else, Kakyoin comes out on top the majority of the time(if there's enough gap distance between the 2)

Forgot to mention this before but his stand also relies on environment

If it's plain territory, he's probably screwed

I've had moments whenever I came across any Kakyoin argument or matchup I usually reside with "his "painting" and "doll" ability were retconned, meaning he only has Emerald Splash and his tendrils, his move-set is boring and weak asf in conjunction to the classical stronger stands"

But I feel as if it's just the user that makes it look boring and useless, Kakyoin always plays heads 'n tails with his options throughout his fights that we forget how his tendrils could destroy f*cking metal like it's paper, and his "tendrils" don't even effect his physical body (SP destroyed it, and HP just side-eyed him like nothing happened (before the rude awakening he got with that beatdown).

So let's give some logical things to make HP more viable, now let's assume the tendrils are more denser than the emerald splash itself (or so let's say his "body" unravels rather than tendrils). then we have a good argument that HP could be used as a makeshift bootleg Stone Free, as the tendrils all have a sentient part of itself as it is unraveled, even structured down to being "invisible" which could easily tear his human opponents limb from limb in an instant in the right circumstance, (if we assume it keeps it's destructive power and density), that ability is super under-developed an utilized (it's like how Avdol can make heat-sensing floating fire-torches yet he only uses it once, with the "MR will burn individual until there is nothing left" logic being left at the Polnareff vs Avdol fight.).

I personally think kakyoin is what makes HG so powerful

Kinda like Stone Free

Yes, he's smart and mentally-adaptive in fights, but he always tries to find ways to last ditch his way to survival without much improvement (like seriously 20 meter emerald splash was his best "I'm gonna die, but let me use my worst ability with a last ditch set-up to luckily bait Dio's TS) like Mista in a way, but less dedicated....

tbf, Kalyoin did put a massive amount of distance between him and DIO. The plan was to basically force DIO into using his ability while Kakyoin observes from a distance. A large distance(ofc the point of the distance is so Kakyoin avoids death so obv it isnt a last-ditch resort)

It's literally not Kakyoin's fault TS is an ability that goes beyond expectation itself.

Even after Kakyoin figured out TS, he still outright refused to believe it

And he's right, at that point in time, nobody would expect some ability to affect the rules of time itself(especially considering that most Stand abilities were pretty basic at the time, there is no possibility that someone would even think of a time ability at that point in time)

Overrated

And so the arguments has returned

I will find you Whiteredgrimm

"tbf, Kalyoin did put a massive amount of distance between him and DIO. The plan was to basically force DIO into using his ability while Kakyoin observes from a distance. A large distance(ofc the point of the distance is so Kakyoin avoids death so obv it isnt a last-ditch resort)"

The issue is the physical difference between Dio/TW and Kakyoin/HG, if it wasn't for the plot convenience Dio could quite literally just brute his way through the emeralds like plastic (the guy literally flicks it away with his fingers) and just beat the sh*t out of Kakyoin without much of an effort, you're right on the factors, he had no sense of ideas on what to do due to his lack of actual training, or expectations, he overestimated his position and Dio's mentality (if he straight up thought Dio was gonna just ricochet his attack or something and just go "oh, nice attack buddy *flies towards Joseph*" and let him go unscathed, then that was not happening)."

"(especially considering that most Stand abilities were pretty basic at the time, there is no possibility that someone would even think of a time ability at that point in time)"

Wrong. Space erasing sphere's, open-world body controlling mist (or however the hell Justice's ability works), reality altering stand that can damage others via dreams, the f*cking Sun, etc.

Yes, Kakyoin hasn't witnessed all of these by first-hand but logically you're giving Kakyoin too much empathy and credit, his issue was his lack of experience, training and time, he lowered his survival rate by beating by the clock, same as the one he destroys in his final message.