While I do agree with the idea that DIO honestly could have just busted out TW and knock the emeralds away like mere pongs, within the world of JoJo, you cannot react to attacks you cannot see. DIO might know where some of the emeralds are coming from but if he manages to let even 1 hit, it was checkmate. Especially considering DIO needs blood to regenerate at this point in time(he still not fully accustomed to Jonathan's body) so ofc the only way he could possibly 100% ensure victory was to TS at that moment.

"He'd get turned into swis cheese"

Damn, so that's what happened to Dio's cape (I just assumed he snagged it off mid-fight against Jotaro, mb)

"Kakyoin isnt aware of this ability(and this isnt even anywhere near the expectstions of effecging the rules of time tbh)"

Yeah, I already agreed he didn't have much experience with some of those, but it's definitely some pretty metaphysica shit, like Kakyoin saw a mirror reflecting at the speed of light and still denied the idea of a mirror world being a thing (that's on him, even Iggy would acknowledge the possibilities, let alone even a glimpse of it in action)

"its just fog creating illusion"

Yeah, but that was defiinitely not something tame seeing the world look like an entirely different projection of the environment, with a bunch of ghost, and puppetry-zombie sh*t going on.

"He doesn't alter reality. It's dreams. Yk, the thing that isn't part of reality. The sun? Yea I still woudnt sy that closes the gap of expectations with the rules of time."

What happens to you in the dreams happens to you in real life (come on man, this is a common factor on why D13 is so overhyped nowadays, it"s the Freddy Krueger shenanigans).

"Damn, so that's what happened to Dio's cape"

"What happens to you in the dreams happens to you in real life"

In terms of injuries yea

It's not like if Kakyoin gets turned into a donut(an actual donut), he'll get turned into a donut irl

But ye, non of the stands you mentioned close the gap of ruling time itself

Its far outstretched

Forgot to mention this too but I don't think Death 13 can effect the victim themselves

We see it effect Jotaros chain, Joseph's prosthetic hand, Polnareff's hair.

He seems to have a limit on what he can and can't effect.

Hence why its only injuries and emotion that are reflected back into the real world

Because that's the only think D13 can do to the victims.

"If it was a ranged fight with good enviornment, I'd still give it to Kakyoin(he was able to tag DIO via strategy which is something non of these guys would he capable of doing)

Tagging Dio isn't so much of a feat at this point, he's a cocky, demented lunatic in a real combat scenario, you just need to give the right first impressions to inflate his ego (until he's caught off guard by the obvious notions)

" which is something non of these guys would he capable of doing)"

Ringo is pretty collected and strategic, and seeing how Kakyoin is a teenager with no sense of coordination with RR's logic, I doubt it'd be much of a toss-up seeing how he gets caught lacking by Geb (f*cking water btw).

Mike O isn't some random scrub who makes pet balloon animals for the president, he's regarded as "The Presidents Right Hand Man" for a reason, TB's is very underrated, the killer swans will fumble Kak's set up in a heartbeat, and the TB's are practically traps whether you try to destroy them or not (unless you have some bullsh*t regen or body-alteration ability like Cream Starter, you're practically f*cked (M.O always has some arrangement of Tubular Bells around, I doubt he'd fumble 50/50 if we're talking about prep-time on Kakyoin's half).

While you have a point on some of these, like Blackmore's slow and intricate set-up and the Boom Boom Family (yes, I know the family-name sounds dumb to say) Etc.

Would definitely say Sandman (Soundman) has a good shot at catching Kak on the ropes in the same manner he did Johnny, but honestly I feel like Sandman is overlooked wrongly aswell, like the dude can out-manuever point blank obstacles and outrun horses that run at 60MPH for over 25-26 days or so on pace, and he honestly could've outplayed Johnny if he didn't clutch it through with the golden ratio tbh.

"It's not like if Kakyoin gets turned into a donut(an actual donut), he'll get turned into a donut irl"

Currently from the scans so far, but nothing states otherwise, like he healed Kakyoin's wounds, and when Kakyoin was choking on eyeballs in the dream sequence, he seeminly started choking irl, so it could just be physically coerced effects, rather than the physically impossible ones.

(And don't NLF me, I didn't add any suggestions otherwise, just observing the logic going on there...)

"But ye, non of the stands you mentioned close the gap of ruling time itself

Its far outstretched" It really isn't, the concept of environment and metaphysical projections that may or may not effect you is still is a risky gamble, honestly, it's not like he's pulling out some time-capsule bs against them it's obvious that he stopping time rather than teleporting seeing the distance and environment act to the effects after a couple of times in plain-sight use, if even Nukesaku's ugly a** knew of it (he wasn't even told btw), then I'm rather certain he could believe and live with the idea of stands having other conceptual abilities, I feel as if you made up a headcanon here, like I'm sure Kakyoin acknowledgec it, and took it in at that point...

"He'd get turned into swis cheese"

I will never understand the "AP=Durability" logic in JJBA, likehe deflects said emeralds with his finger in the first encounter now suddenly it's more worth the evasion than an actual bullet?!

Nah, that's just inconsistency for a plot-hole, no statements of any amp of sorts.

"Tagging Dio isn't so much of a feat at this point, he's a cocky, demented lunatic in a real combat scenario, you just need to give the right first impressions to inflate his ego"

DIO was cocky was 2 seconds with Jotaro

Every other time, he's been serious and killed his opponents immediately. The DIO cocky argument is overrated af ngl. People need to understand he specifically wanted to test Jotaro because his stand was the only stand that interested DIO(it was based in physical capability)

"Ringo is pretty collected and strategic, and seeing how Kakyoin is a teenager with no sense of coordination with RR's logic"

Kakyoins age doesn't correlate with his intellect. His feat of tagging DIO out does anything Ringos done. In fact, Ringo isn't even strategic, he just knows what to do the next time cause of his ability to reset.

If Kakyoin strategies were so well that you could even tag someone to the likes of DIO, you'd be a losing man to bet on the other guy

Non of the SBR characters have that same level of strategic planning other than probably Diego

"And don't NLF me, I didn't add any suggestions otherwise, just observing the logic going on there"

You said the very statement that falls under NLF tho lmfao. You outright went "nothing says otherwise". My brother in christ, that's NLF 😭

"It really isn't, the concept of environment and metaphysical projections that may or may not effect you is still is a risky gamble,"

But for people who only know the stand abilities that go that far, they woudnt expect anything 4 dimensional related like time .

For the DIO thing, ye I admit that DIO could have busted out TW and deflect the splash but he can't react to smth he won't see. He doesn't know the direction Every emerald is coming from. Kakyoin abused this rule, forcing DIO to use his ability

"DIO was cocky was 2 seconds with Jotaro"

Nah, he was having an entire play-date chasing Joseph down, and we've seen him fumble every shot he had so far with Polnareff, even to an extent that it gets his minions killed in the most ridiculous scenario's if you really wanna go back, and his "test" was apparently still on stand-by because he was still making the worst decisions possible when he was on the ropes.

"If Kakyoin strategies were so well that you could even tag someone to the likes of DIO, you'd be a losing man to bet on the other guy"

You just made an argument that "Kakyoin would never expect a stand-user to effect time" yet you're saying it's unlikely for him to have his ability ratioed by Mandom (that EFFECTS 𝘁𝗶𝗺𝗲 btw), with a clean shot between eyes in that predicament, and you didn't particularly back up my other argument for the mentioned SBR stand-users (compensating or smth?).

"Kakyoins age doesn't correlate with his intellect. His feat of tagging DIO out does anything Ringos done. In fact, Ringo isn't even strategic, he just knows what to do the next time cause of his ability to reset."

Ringo handled Johnny and HP pretty well with little to no casualties overall, and the logic that he "isn't strategic" as if he didn't out-play Gyro's strat if it wasn't for the last minute showdown and rules, Gyro would've been very much dead, now imagine some random kid (did I mention that Kakyoin has Dark Determination, something that RR detests specifically to straight up going for the kill with no rules or drawbacks)

"You said the very statement that falls under NLF tho lmfao. You outright went "nothing says otherwise". My brother in christ, that's NLF 😭"

Can you really call it an NLF when it's practically an untouched statement by the writer, for all we know it COULD just be centered round actual physical effects, rather than just injuries, it just has to be logically tame.

"Non of the SBR characters have that same level of strategic planning other than probably Diego"

Don't go glazing Kakyoin like that (I know this is an appreciation post but be serious...) HP, Johnny, Gyro, Pocoloco, FV, Steven Steel (bro paved out 75% plot), Mountain Tim, Etc.

"But for people who only know the stand abilities that go that far, they woudnt expect anything 4 dimensional related like time"

He was literally told by Jotaro's grandpa "that stands can manifest as anything, they can even be anyone" and etcetera...