FANDOM


  • Can anything beat GER except OverHeaven stands since they can easily negate requiem power. Personally my answer is probably nothing can. Anyone got your own opinion?

      Loading editor
    • im gonna say bohemian rhapsody because it can make like triple GERs to negate GER

        Loading editor
    • My Fade to black.

        Loading editor
    • Bohemian Rhapsody

        Loading editor
    • I know my stand's Non-Canon, but I think my Crimson Diablo Requiem can use it's sub-ability of Nullification to Nullify GER's "Return to Zero".



      Requiem vs. Non-Canon Requiem xD

        Loading editor
    • no.

        Loading editor
    • no but Araki will probably kill another dog rather than making a stand stronger than GER

        Loading editor
    • R.I.P second dog

      2019-2019

      Killed by Hirohiko Araki

        Loading editor
    • Hawkios1 wrote:
      R.I.P second dog

      2019-2019

      Killed by Hirohiko Araki

        Loading editor
    • So maybe tusk act 4 could do something  it broke through  love train which is a glorified I win button 

        Loading editor
    • 1553093681295

      Tusk opening bullcrap shield

        Loading editor
    • U3nZc5b

      Tusk continues to break open literally jesus's stand

        Loading editor
    • YNAOR4X

      Tusk opens JESUS'S STAND then beats the crap out of d4c

        Loading editor
    • I don't think Bohemian Rhapsody is strong enough. GER is pretty hax and BR at least takes a bit of time to activate properly. GER could set it to zero before anything too crazy happened.

      Tusk ACT 4 is a maybe. I'm not really sure if it's something GER could even set to zero, but the action of summoning it in the first place might be undone.

        Loading editor
    • But that's the thing we don't know what act 4 can do other then rotation and we know next to nothing  about ger plus gold experience  requiems zero ability  is passive but I do think since act 4 is used for surprise rush attacks if he breaks  through return to zero he could get a clean hit on Giorno.so as I see it tusk act3 and 4 are the most tactical  out of the acts but to hit Giorno  Johnny needs to do some Joseph joestar type stuff. Plus Johnny has 20 chances to kill Giorno  but since Johnny usually uses act 3 in act4 it would be hard for Giorno to predict tusk act 4 but Giorno  has seen stands with abilities similar to tusk which are sticky fingers king crimson and the dude who can swim in the ground but guys let's be real Giornos gonna have no idea what to do if Johnny shoots himself in the head now about stats well you guys know how stand stats are....so I don't know how strong ger is but the thing Giorno ger might tell Giorno "hey Giorno you might want to be careful cause this thing can literally pierce through dimensions( little tip don't let it touch you)but the thing is tusk is like really fast it hit valentine 9 times before d4c started  blocking and that was tusk using one hand also tusk is really strong as while as it opened a street it also busted through love in which the only stands I can see busting through love train are over heaven stands also we don't know how durable tusk act 4 is it has armor but you know so did silver chariot and it got busted by star finger so yeah but it would be cool to see a  ORA ORA ORA vs MUDA MUDA  MUDA  with act 4 and ger.

        Loading editor
    • i dont think if a stand erased him he would be able to undo it (the hand or cream) also if giorno had the infinite spin put on him he wouldnt be able to undo it

        Loading editor
    • Nothing can beat GER, including Tusk Act 4, since Tusk Act 4 can only beat stands like Love Train and The World due to its control over gravity, which won't help against GER.

        Loading editor
    • What about over heaven? Sure, thats not canon, but idc, it can tndeed beat ger

        Loading editor
    • Yeah Over Heaven works, but like you said, non-canon

      Also it was addressed in the question itself

        Loading editor
    • Oh, all i saw was can anything beat ger?

        Loading editor
    • The closest we can get to beating GER is with SP. He can just copy it’s ability

        Loading editor
    • I think nothing can beat GER per se BUT as far as I know if you kill the user you kill the stand. So successful sneak attack at Giorno and GER's nobbed, right? As for SP... I don't think it copies abilites, or at least it isn't obvious? It has za Warudo's because... plot. But even if it could... woudln't it just be infinite negation loop (and on top of that, would GER be aware during time stop? Probably yes since time is part reality)?

      (I was wondering honestly as I was reading part 6 (spoilers, don't look down, avert your gaze))







      Couldn't Johngalli A just snipe him from wherever. Giorno can notice MT all he wants, he's getting a bullet in the head, unless GER doesn't vanish instantly or it somehow realises what's going on, Giorno's dead. Oh wait, he's an unrepentant Gary Stu that knows everything and can't fail and be harmed. Yeah, GER's impossible to beat anyway)

        Loading editor
    • No, I don’t think so. GER is a self aware stand and he could protect Giorno without Giorno even knowing what’s going on

        Loading editor
    • KarsMarsBars wrote:
      No, I don’t think so. GER is a self aware stand and he could protect Giorno without Giorno even knowing what’s going on

      Um... OK? But again, on a sneak/stealth attack (it would be a question whether GER would be out (unless GER is out constantly without stamina drain))... how would it know what's going on? It's self aware, not omniscient  (yeah, in that example may be "There's a stand, something going on"). You're self aware, I'm self aware, literally anyone could sneak up on us. And that's a (spoilers again) fast moving sniper bullet? If it sees it or aware of it, then yeah, rewind time (I can see how I maybe worded poorly. Not a sneak attack as an ambush, ofc that wouldn't work, as long as something moves off it pops. I meant as in long ranged attack, hence sniper rifle).

      But alright, even if that's a bad example, premise stands (lol). GER can't be fought directly, but can be defeated indirectly with insta-kill on Giorno. Yay or nay? (with exlcusion of omniscience. If it's just permanently on and aware of anything then yep, GER hax).

        Loading editor
    • Probably not still. The ability seems like an unconscious one

        Loading editor
    • KarsMarsBars wrote:
      Probably not still. The ability seems like an unconscious one

      Fair enough.

        Loading editor
    • I think that Joji Joestar (from the Jorge Joestar novel) might have a chance, seeing as he can manipulate the plot if he believes in Beyond.

        Loading editor
    • Yeah, but Jorge Joestar is crazy lol.

        Loading editor
    • Yeah GER seems to be both controllable by Giorno yet also can act automatically to protect him. The only reason I suggest MAYBE Tusk ACT 4 is because it's a reality warper, and when 2 reality warpers fight all bets are off.

        Loading editor
    • Tusk 4 doesn't reality warp... Its just infinite rotation

        Loading editor
    • Yeah Tusk Act 4 only controls gravity, wouldn't help against GER's ability.

        Loading editor
    • Babythedude wrote: Tusk 4 doesn't reality warp... Its just infinite rotation

      Infinite energy without infinite mass is impossible, so that inherently is reality-warping, plus it can bypass dimensional barriers. I'll admit though that it's a bit of a stretch.

        Loading editor
    • what on earth?

        Loading editor
    • Kingasdfg wrote:
      Yeah GER seems to be both controllable by Giorno yet also can act automatically to protect him. The only reason I suggest MAYBE Tusk ACT 4 is because it's a reality warper, and when 2 reality warpers fight all bets are off.

      Reality warper? When did it warp reality? It pierced the barrier and can travel through things, sure. It's functional in time stop... so... that? But... time is a subset of reality (OK, I can maybe see them being independent, but it's still highly contested point). And I'm not sure what phase of T4 are we talking about. Starting, going towards a target or hitting it? If it hits, then yeah, that's open for discussion.

      And while on macro level it's correct that infinite energy requires infinite mass... if that was the case wouldn't literally the entire world be nobbed? If we assume that... like focused photon beam (like a LASER) is fired then it can MAYBE fly (and it would be on a quantum level then, ie no mass) but if it has even the lowest of volume that would lead to incredibly high density ie. black hole. We know what that means. And because its a nail bullet inherently... I'd say that's true. And if it does warp reality, how is nothing but the barrier affected? GER turned everything back as is, we can see things being forced in their place. T4 just does one thing. And even then, you know how Diego the other one cut his leg (spoilers). T4 is not even immediate then, while GER is.

      It's OK because per admission the suggestion is a bit of a stretch but something is missing here. And I would be very happy if you were correct, I hate Giorno, GE and GER, I'm just highly confused here (also, will I ever write a short post. Jesus Christ).

        Loading editor
    • Glad I’m not the only one who despises Giorno and GE/GER

        Loading editor
    • well tusk warped through love train but i dont wanna call that reality warpering also before somone says somthing about zero.spin is physics not math.

        Loading editor
    • Tusk Act 4 can only control gravity, it doesn't help against GER.

        Loading editor
    • but...spin isnt gravity....

        Loading editor
    • and i am taking about the infinte rotation not how it works and since we dont know alot about tusk and ger i think that if tusk touches ger. giornos dead

        Loading editor
    • But that's the thing. IF it touches. IF it touches... I'm honestly still dubious but whatever goes on, cool. The thing is, with T4 taking some setup and not reaching it's target GER would have ample of time to prevent the shot from ever going off. Unless the premise is that return to zero would be ineffective against the bullet and it would keep moving despite the reversal... in THAT case GER is absolutely effed in the a. But I'm really not sure what is the concrete reasoning behind it. I'm all ears though.

        Loading editor
    • well its kinda weird cause ger and tusks abilitys are almost the excate opposites of each other but heres the thing could giorno reverse the infinte rotation and could tusk act 4 break through return to zero thats the two driving questions when talking about this match up

        Loading editor
    • and if they ignore each other i think tusk could pummel giorno to death

        Loading editor
    • How are they opposite? GER literally manipula... at this point I feel like I'm defending GER. End my life... tes reality, Tusk spins-a-lot. But let's try to answer things.

      Could Giorno reverse infinite rotation? ... the more I think about it the less sure I am. I want to just say "yes", because GER is basically nothing starts (or nothing ends) so the bullet won't be fired at all to reach it. But on the supposed hit... I still lean towards "yes" because, like King Crimson, is fate/causality controller. It's ability being cause yes, effect no so AT WORST it would create a permanent loop similar to Diavolo, ie. constantly being hit but suffering no consequences, but that would be if GER wasnt Giorno's stand, it was just neutral. I still think it can/would reverse it to nothing happening, but my heart/mind as I said would like me to be wrong.

      Could it break through return to zero? Honestly, it being functional through time stop really throws a wrench in there. I have bugger all clue, I think not but even if it could I don't think it would matter in the end.

      Although. I guess we can maybe look as dimensions as different realities separate and independent. I would then ask is Giorno done for if D4C D4Cs him.

      Truth be told, you're about as wrong/right as I am. We have incomplete info on quite abstract powers. Or I'm/we're overcomplicating things because I'm/we're sleep deprived. I would see now how could you pick a side easily :D I am with you, I just highly doubt it would.

        Loading editor
    • its k man its just your opinion 

        Loading editor
    • Tusk Act 4 controls gravity. That is how it breaks through Love Train, that is how it opens barriers, and that is how it enters stopped time. If you don't believe me, try reading the manga, where it says that Love Train can only be deafeated by an ability that controls gravity, or the chapter where it gives Tusk Act 4's description, and says that it controls gravity, or High Voltage, where Diego says that Tusk Act 4 can enter Stopped Time by controlling gravity. Tusk Act 4 controls gravity. Tusk Act 4 Controls Gravity. Tusk. Act. 4. Controls. Gravity. Do you understand what I'm saying here? Controlling gravity is just another action that can be reset, so Tusk Act 4 can't beat GER.

        Loading editor
    • Tusk 4 can control gravity, I get that part. What I DONT get is how Tusk opened the sewer ground that one time and how he was able to completely annihilate those girls around Diego.

        Loading editor
    • yes true but the infinte energy tusk uses isnt backed by gravity its backed by the rotational energry which gyro says in love train and before you say the rotation is baked by gravity it isnt also it says in tusks descirption that that enegry pireces dimonsions GERs ability dosnt go that far.

        Loading editor
    • also im pretty sure that giorno cant reverse the rotation

        Loading editor
    • Sure, it pierces dimensions. How does that help against an ability that has nothing to do with dimensions? What dimension would Tusk be piercing? Tusk can't surpass an ability that literally can undo any action, it has no way to counter that.

        Loading editor
    • Ok that’s it! D4C can beat GER in a fight!

        Loading editor
    • Doubtful, D4C doesn't have any attacks that can't be undone.

        Loading editor
    • will since dimonsions by defination are passed actions to the point were they are reachble plains of space and if im not wrong tusk piercing dimosions is somthing like lets say that ger trys to reverse tusk if the dimonsions we ae talking about are plains of space  then that means that ger couldnt reverse tusk because by defination tusk technical is warping reality(which is space) and if i am not correct the action of spin forming cant be reversed if you cant use infinte dimonsion warping enegry and unless i missed somthing i dont think GER can do that.

        Loading editor
    • I mean, if Giorno ran into another version of himself what would happen? D4C’s ability clearly states that no two things can exist in the same universe.

        Loading editor
    • I... I can't even begin trying to understand what you are saying here. You are litterally just making up a bunch of stuff so that Tusk can win. First off, if Tusk could enter other universes, then Johnny should've been able to shoot Funny Valentine before he returned. Second, by definition Tusk needs to be on the same plane of existence as someone to attack them. Third, GER can undo any action, including the action of entering another dimension.

        Loading editor
    • yeah your right d4c could also beat ger by that same logic

        Loading editor
    • GER could just undo the action of bringing in another Giorno.

        Loading editor
    • I suppose, but if he got close, there’d be no stopping that I would think.

        Loading editor
    • Bannana is going philosophical, but seriously? GER can reverse time, just reverse time to before the infinite rotation was shot. 

        Loading editor
    • If he got too close yeah, but if GER could intercept, then he could be reset.

        Loading editor
    • KarsMarsBars wrote:
      Tusk 4 can control gravity, I get that part. What I DONT get is how Tusk opened the sewer ground that one time and how he was able to completely annihilate those girls around Diego.

      well there is infinte enegry backed by those movments also i think tusk did that in stopped time so it would seem quicker

        Loading editor
    • okay i never said anything about tusk entiring universe what im saying is the enegry tusk outputs(well except the thing with dieago) is past actions. also it is stated by johnny that the only thing that  can reset spin is spin

        Loading editor
    • See I was trying to bring this point up earlier, we have so little information on either of these Stands, both are incredibly powerful, and they both have rules that seemingly contradict each other. So specific rules in this case don't matter, it's essentially a game of "who's ability is stronger?" And based off thematic presentation, I'd have to give it to GER.

        Loading editor
    • actually what i said was stupied i ment the the infinte rotation is beyond the kind of resetting ger does also again this may just be based on what johnnys seen but johnny and gyro say that only spin can reset spin

        Loading editor
    • Look, your pleb stands have no hope against NYPD Blue. Case closed.

        Loading editor
    • dude litarlly almost everyone in jorge joestar can beat ger also no...just no

        Loading editor
    • GER can reset any action, and firing the infinite rotation is an action. It's not "passed actions", it can be reset.

      In addition, it's not that "only spin can reset spin", it's that the only thing that can undo the infinite rotation is an opposite infinite rotation. That doesn't matter though, since GER makes it so that the original rotation never happened. You don't need a second spin to cancel the first, since the first spin never happened.

        Loading editor
    • My brain hurts



      I need help

        Loading editor
    • Just think of this as King Crimson. Accept that it just works (or in GER's case it just doesn't) and roll with it. Eases the pain at least.

        Loading editor
    • MyTAegis wrote:
      GER can reset any action, and firing the infinite rotation is an action. It's not "passed actions", it can be reset.

      In addition, it's not that "only spin can reset spin", it's that the only thing that can undo the infinite rotation is an opposite infinite rotation. That doesn't matter though, since GER  makes it so that the original rotation never happened. You don't need a second spin to cancel the first, since the first spin never happened. 

      look we dont know how far spin goes but i am sure that return to zero dosnt effect somthing that goes through worlds .then again we dont know about far ger goes so yea we well never know. but in my opinion GER cant reset tusk

        Loading editor
    • The fact that this entire conversation is happening proves that jojo fans are superior due to our intelect to understand literally anything in the jojo canon. I wouldn't be surprised if a jojo fan figures out the meaning of life.

        Loading editor
    • well thats somthing we can agree on

        Loading editor
    • Thank you, Araki

        Loading editor
    • I wonder if Love Train could count Return to Zero as a misfortune to Valentine and send it elsewhere.

      Like this:

      GER: You'll never reach the truth.

      Some guy walking: Infinite death loop

      Giorno: ....

        Loading editor
    • The meaning of life is to make life.

        Loading editor
    • We will become heaven ascended once we find the meaning of life.

        Loading editor
    • What if meaning of life is the search itself? Like if we find out what the meaning is our lives become boring ("it's not the goal, it's the journey" you know), so the search itself is the point so we shape "undefined life" as we see fit. Meta as hell if that's the case.

        Loading editor
    • PublicMinority87 wrote:
      I wonder if Love Train could count Return to Zero as a misfortune to Valentine and send it elsewhere.

      Like this:

      GER: You'll never reach the truth.

      Some guy walking: Infinite death loop

      Giorno: .... 

      knowing how op love train is it wouldnt surpirse me

        Loading editor
    • I think that would be ultimate stalemate. That is, if the battle begins with LT being active long before the battle, because GER can reverse to pre-LT state if it wasn't long ago. But in that situation neither can do anything to the other. GER can't attack, or it can attack infinitely until it kills every single thing on the planet, and D4C can't do anything because reversal. So... that's unstoppable force vs intangible object.

        Loading editor
    • imgaine your just walking down the street and then you get hit by a car but you dont die and you keep seeing a pink haired dude also keeps dying

        Loading editor
    • that fight would be sad

        Loading editor
    • If ger kills everything on the planet wouldn't LT start reversing ger's attacks back to it

        Loading editor
    • I thought love train was universal.

        Loading editor
    • well no evenually it will go to him thats what happended to johnny and gyro and mr steel

        Loading editor
    • Right, I just read the wiki and it said anywhere on the earth.

        Loading editor
    • so it is random

        Loading editor
    • Adorluigi3 wrote:
      If ger kills everything on the planet wouldn't LT start reversing ger's attacks back to it

      Good point. But probably Giorno would figure out what's going on (if I recall correctly Johnny was able to see that someone else got shot) and would either stop attacking or realise he's next and would reverse to pre-attack. But still... no change in game-state. (Not counting the abusrdity of every single thing on the planet)

        Loading editor
    • Giorno would still win, and I'll explain why. LT I on a planetary level, while GER is able to nullify reality itself. Planetary<reality Therefore GER wins

        Loading editor
    • this discussion has gone crazy.

        Loading editor
    • Whalordius TDD wrote:
      Giorno would still win, and I'll explain why.

      LT I on a planetary level, while GER is able to nullify reality itself. Planetary<reality Therefore GER wins

      Agree on LT, disagree on GER. OK, from what little we have seen, GER doesn't nullify anything, with nullify being to cancel, make no value or consequence... well, I guess it can nullify in sense no wanted result (ie.no consequence) is achieved, but in this case, GER can't nullify LT, LT is still there, unless it literally reverses to the point of where LT first activated (assuming it was active for long time or it can reverse infinitely, in which cases LT's nobbed). It can't just touch LT and it just goes poof. That reality>planetary is on point, but it just has a passive, not active effect. If you rewind a video or a tape, nothing before is lost, it's just returned to a previous point (maybe not the best analogy because you can technically rewind then edit, which would be GER but you probably get the gist).

      P.S. Is this thread crazy, that Idk. But I know I am, so that other user is somewhat correct.

      PP.S. But honestly, GER can win not on reality altering but on strength, knowing what Gary Stu has it and how broken it is. You know how it flickered... a pebble was it, and turned it into scorpion. If I recall correctly it pierced Diavolo's finger but KC cut it. With how unfair it is we CAN MAYBE extrapolate that it can maybe throw something powerful enough to pierce LT. I doubt it; it will just be sent to someone else but knowing how some protagonists must win no matter what (and what a surpise, they are the two worst protagonists) it wouldn't surpise me that that was the case.

        Loading editor
    • Who are the worse two protagonist? Johnny and Giorno? Man... Even Crazy Diamond can't fix that shit taste.

      And ok, you guys forget that the corspe parts actually makes the user the center of the universe. Actually multi-universes since there is only one corspe. So what this crap about plantery stuff and whatever?

      GER doesn't nullify reality as per se. It more so changes reality by using return to zero like when it made Diavolo predication never "reach reality". And if basically if Love Train was activated and Giorno was fated to lose, GER would use RTZ to either set Valentine's willpower to zero or reverse time to when Love Train was activated and then reset his willpower to zero. Either way works tbh.

        Loading editor
    • Thebannanaworkshop wrote:
      U3nZc5b

      Tusk continues to break open literally jesus's stand

      tusk act 4: im here to steal your chumi-meme!

        Loading editor
    • Babythedude wrote:
      Who are the worse two protagonist? Johnny and Giorno? Man... Even Crazy Diamond can't fix that shit taste.

      And ok, you guys forget that the corspe parts actually makes the user the center of the universe. Actually multi-universes since there is only one corspe. So what this crap about plantery stuff and whatever?

      GER doesn't nullify reality as per se. It more so changes reality by using return to zero like when it made Diavolo predication never "reach reality". And if basically if Love Train was activated and Giorno was fated to lose, GER would use RTZ to either set Valentine's willpower to zero or reverse time to when Love Train was activated and then reset his willpower to zero. Either way works tbh.

      Jotaro and Giorno. Although Jotaro at least had the decency of part 4 (where he was quite good) and part 6 (where he got hurt and DIED, so he's not prone to critique further up). Not character wise, I'm fine with stoics who don't talk a lot, but in part 3 he's basically omnipotent (I said "some protagonists must win no matter what", Giorno and part 3 Jotaro win everything because lol). Giorno has nothing redeemable. If that makes my taste shit, fine, I'll survive disliking a guy who knows everything, can't be harmed and is outright omnipotent. Johnny is great btw.

      Everything else is fine, except willpower. What willpower? Stamina or? Or decreasing his will to fight? And now is a question of how long it can reverse. If it can reverse indefinitely or LT was activated when fight started then yeah, if LT was active for a long time then Idk. All you said is valid though. 

        Loading editor
    • i thought love train was infinte as long as you had the corpse parts

        Loading editor
    • Actually, I remember being confused about it when I read SBR. Isn't LT tied to Lucy as well? I vaguely remember FV said like "actually, LT isn't Jesus stand, it's actually my D4C", something along those lines, but Lucy is like the limit. I'm reading wiki right now, it says "Love Train can only be used at a certain distance from Lucy, so if she is moved away from him, then he is forcibly pulled with her and must exit the wall to be free to walk around".

      So... isn't LT highly specific by default? Is FV just going to carry the corpse (we know that corpse stays where it is at the end) or can he just activate LT when he feels like it just becasue he "owns" the corpse?

        Loading editor
    • yes but that was cause lucy was gonna become the corpse part

        Loading editor
    • no lucy just gives birth to the skull which then the corpse separates from Lucy

        Loading editor
    • ger has none in every stat therefore is the weakest stand of all time and anything can beat it

        Loading editor
    • Babythedude wrote:
      no lucy just gives birth to the skull which then the corpse separates from Lucy

      What? she literally turns into the corpse, it starts killing her. That's like a major plot point

        Loading editor
    • Yeah I just went to reread it

        Loading editor
    • Lucy gets turned into a corpse by giving birth to a corpse and the corpse kills her 

        Loading editor
    • I don't even understand what i just posted

        Loading editor
    • Kars (jorge joestar)

        Loading editor
    • SevenTrue wrote:
      Kars (jorge joestar)

      Which one?

        Loading editor
    • All 38

        Loading editor
    • 38 Kars on Mars

        Loading editor
    • D4C would be able to destroy giorno by simply grabbing a diffrent giorno from a diffrent universe and making them come in contact with eachother, or Valentine could just use D4C to hop to a diffrent universe stab himself with the requiem arrow go back and win, or Valentine could do what i just described but with love train active, if love train is an OP bullcrap ability and requiem makes stands stupidly OP then love train + requiem = over heaven but on a budget.

        Loading editor
    • star platinum would easily win since GER is the same type of stand as star platinum

      also DIO could use za warudo get the road roalla belt and ground Giorno 

      even more so narancia could blackmail giorno for giving mista head

      GER cant reset any of that 

        Loading editor
    • DiavoloBoss009 wrote:
      38 Kars on Mars

      36. It's 36 Kars on Mars. Too much KC spam does that to your brain, doesn't it boss?

      Also CoolGuyy15 gets it. Everything stated is on point.

        Loading editor
    • Kars: The Movie

        Loading editor
    • Ger could be beaten by anybody if you assume he does nothing to defend itself, problem is, wedon't knowthe full extent of GER's ability and we need to consider that Giorno wouldn't stay there and take it.

      Kars developed hamon, so he'd likely be able to develop a stand on his own, but it would be too complicated to speculate on that; as of right now, GER could mess up Kars with ease.

      Time stops can be nullified by GER, but even if it wasn't the case, neither Dio nor Jotaro would be allowed close enough to Giorno in the first place, as Ger was implied to still have all of GE's abilities, although most weren't used.

      Putting zero against infinity is always complicated, but Tusk's infinite rotation isn't an infinite rotation speed, it's a rotation that lasts forever in time, therefore stopping it wouldn't be a problem. Even then, GE has damage reflection abilities (in the manga canon, Diavolo didn't hit the scorpion), so he would likely not allow himself to be hit in the first place, and maybe reflect the ability on Johnny.

      D4C Could bring in another Giorno, but GER would Kill Valentine first, or, at least, Keep away from the other Giorno while doing so.

        Loading editor
    • Digression. Happy New Year lads and ladettes. May DIO's blessings be upon you and watch out for knives!

        Loading editor
    • Heavens Door couldn, it could sneak attack Giorno and turn him into a book before he had time to react and burn it.

        Loading editor
    • Could*

        Loading editor
    • GER is (for the most part) completely untouchable against causal beings, with some notable exceptions; exceptions include if its beyond a 3-D being, has a special counter to its ability (stronger Causality Manipulation, Logic Manipulation, that stuff), or has a speed of Immeasurable and beyond. If it is acausal, Zero Reset has no effect on the individual, and if it can bypass GER's already exisiting physical strength, speed, and Life Manipulation abilities from its previous stage, then this hypothetical opponent will defeat Giorno. That's a simple as you can get for a weakness.

        Loading editor
    • So then stands like tusk act 4 and starplatnum have small chances even tho it's a small chance I never thought of it like that also I think ger has to kill you for you to die infinitely I still think tusk can hit ger with rotation cause yes ger defie things but love train is literally unbeatable and tusk opened love with little difficulty also tusk has some bullcrap afterresult abilities as one tusk stayed alive after Johnny died and two tusk literally made a stand.

        Loading editor
    • Actually that's a pretty good thought

        Loading editor
    • You know who can beat GER? Broom lady. Think about it. Diavolo has KC, most powerful pre-GER stand (in part 5 I mean) who cleaves and punches through EVERYTHING, not discussing its esoteric power. If she was just some rando he would have donuted her (or did what he did to his mother) and kept researching... but no. He bolted within 10 seconds. 10 SECONDS. That's how worried he was. And may I remind you, we don't know her stand not its stats... yet she did this to Diavolo.

      Admittedly speculative cause we don't know anything about her but... I wouldn't put it past her that she can sweep GER. 

      P.S. And add to that. KC has Epitaph which states the future. And KC was quite on during the research shenanigans, yet Diavolo realised her presence only when she opened the door. She outsmarted Epitaph... yeah, she has some hidden powers.

        Loading editor
    • The world over heaven beating GER and tusk and getting punched by jotaro makes zero sense

        Loading editor
    • GE could beat GER. GER attempts to infinite no u GE, but GE blocks with an animal and GER gets infinite no u.

        Loading editor
    • It returns it to zero no matter what. GER wins.

        Loading editor
    • What returns to zero?

        Loading editor
    • The act of GE making an animal

        Loading editor
    • If we discount GER's ability... how about just fair 1 on 1 fight? I know its stats are none but they aren't. Still... if SP or TW or stuff like that would just to enter a fistfight... what would be a result of that?

        Loading editor
    • That’s something I’m not even going to think about. That’s like putting Star Platinum against D4C, but taking away it’s fists.

        Loading editor
    • ... OK first part but second no. More proper would be taking SP's time stop, it's a fair fight. OK if you think GER would kick ass even in toe-to-toe or it would be snapped like the brach (or that it wouldn't be a fair battle in the first place because rtz) but that's pretty weird analogy (even if you imply "it would be a pointless battle because it would be gimmick -stripped and stands are all about gimmicks" other than utterly passive or non-combative stands can still fight even without their special powers, how well they fare is a different matter). Nibba needs more info here.

        Loading editor
    • If GER RTZ's GE then GER can't exist due to RTZing GE's action of tranforming into GER. GG GER

        Loading editor
    • DiavoloBoss009 wrote:

      If GER RTZ's GE then GER can't exist due to RTZing GE's action of tranforming into GER. GG GER

      I work for Harvard. You will join us whether you like it or not.

        Loading editor
    • um......the fuck?!

        Loading editor
    • Obdegobdeglobdegor
      Obdegobdeglobdegor removed this reply because:
      Unnecessary
      22:46, January 7, 2020
      This reply has been removed
    • Boy 2 man

        Loading editor
    • The World over Heaven probably could.

        Loading editor
    • Obdegobdeglobdegor wrote:

      DiavoloBoss009 wrote:

      If GER RTZ's GE then GER can't exist due to RTZing GE's action of tranforming into GER. GG GER

      I work for Harvard. You will join us whether you like it or not.

      Hand over that degree

        Loading editor
    • Wait that's off topic

        Loading editor
    • I think Tusk Act 4 would have a large chance more than any other stand. If tusk was able to break through Love Train, which is a stand that is literally built to be invincible. Thinking into it, Love Train's ability is supposed to protect Valentine from any and all misfortune that can come his way. You would think that a stand trying to break in would not be very fortunate for him. GER's Return to Zero could stop the process of summoning Act Four, preventing any challenge in the first place. Say for now that he doesn't. Lets say Johnny can summon him without the use of the Golden Ratio. Johnny has two options: To try to shoot Giorno, or to Use act fours barrage. If he shot him, Giorno would probably Return to Zero in time. We have to remember though, Tusk can redirect missed nail bullets as well. If he tried to use Act 4's barrage, he'd have to

      A. Get up close enough to Giorno to be able to get hits in, due to it being a close ranged stand.

      B. Be able to get the jump on Giorno, and hit him before he can react.

      The infinite spin takes only one touch to affect the target, so it wouldn't take much. If Giorno were hit he would not be able to Return to Zero because of the infinite energy. The spin starts off as Infinite so you can not Return to Zero if zero never existed in the first place.

      Here are two scenarios of what I see as outcomes of the fights.

      1. Johnny manages to get close enough to Giorno somehow and barrage him with Act 4. Giorno can't undo the infinite spin so Giorno is stuck like Valentine was, across all of dimensions as well.

      2. Giorno simply RTZ and I am wrong about everything. I just wasted 20 minutes if my life and Giorno can flex about killing a parapalegic.

        Loading editor
    • I forgot to mention that RTZ is passive, not GER in itself. Thats why the best plan would be to try to get the jump on him.

        Loading editor
    • Giorno eats bad pizza and dies. GG GER

        Loading editor
    • Tusk can’t redirect nail shots, by the way. If you mean the moving bullet holes, then yes

        Loading editor
    • Kars steals GE and then uses the arrow to make it into GER and then it becomes Gold Experience Requiem Ultimate and the regular GER just can't compare. GG GER

        Loading editor
    • Yep

        Loading editor
    • Can't Whitesnake just take Giorno by surprise and use Disco's Steal on him? If I'm not mistaken, I think GER could not use Return to Zero while its ability is removed.

        Loading editor
    • well no since return to zero is a passive ability

        Loading editor
    • Actually he could

        Loading editor
    • Requiem can work even when Giorno is unaware, I don't think sneak attacks of any sort would even work on him.

        Loading editor
    • Too bad GER doesn't exist anymore

        Loading editor
    • It still exists, though

        Loading editor
    • Everyone who was alive before the reset gets carried over to the newly created universe

        Loading editor
    • I didn't say anything about Giorno dying, i just said GER doesn't exist anymore

        Loading editor
    • Wait, would Highway to Hell work? Technically it’s giorno harming himself and not the other way around.

        Loading editor
    • Giorno kills himself while GER watches in confusion. GG GER

        Loading editor
    • GER would be like “wtf”

        Loading editor
    • What if Love Train counts Return to Zero as a misfortune.

      Before you say "It isn't an action, so that wouldn't happen." I never said that it would, hense the What if.

      GER: No

      Love Tain then teleports the No

      GER: What the fuck.

        Loading editor
    • How is it misfortune? It's... a fact at best... I'm willing to concede that there's like 20% possibility that FV somehow remains unaffected by rtz, but even in that case FV can do bugger all. But even then, rtz doesn't affect directly FV so he can redirect it, it affects him indirectly... but even then rtz is about as planetary as LT so it's a stalemate. True that rtz is "no" but it's a soft no (ie. dindu happen lol) not a hard or reflective no.

      Other than systematically going through every stand ever honestly we might as well write this off as only Za Waurdo over Heaven is the only thing that can, GER is just too bullshit (if you'll pardon the phrasing). I'm personally not happy about it but it is how it is.

        Loading editor
    • Read it again.

        Loading editor
    • to be fair love train kinda makes you the center of the universe

        Loading editor
    • Possibly Novel Kars?

        Loading editor
    • PublicMinority87 wrote:
      Read it again.

      Well since that is the route you want to go.

      1) * hence

      2) what if GER somehow forgot what it's ability is

      3) what if Kars fell from space and landed on Giorno

      4) what if Gaborone wasn't capital of Botswana?

        Loading editor
    • Obdegobdeglobdegor wrote:
      PublicMinority87 wrote:
      Read it again.
      Well since that is the route you want to go.

      1) * hence

      2) what if GER somehow forgot what it's ability is

      3) what if Kars fell from space and landed on Giorno

      4) what if Gaborone wasn't capital of Botswana?

      wtf?

        Loading editor
    • It says read it again. Read it again and it should be clearer.

        Loading editor
    • Yakko: "Botswanaaaaaa"

        Loading editor
    • Getting the Preemptive strike might work?

      If Jotaro can Za Warudo, and stop time, then kill gio in the time it might work?

      Or if heaven's door removes the stand?

      (Dire's Thunder Cross Split, might also work, I don't think GER can stop that)

        Loading editor
    • Nothing can beat the Thunder Cross Split Attack

        Loading editor
    • You know, as much as TCSA and Emerald splash are memed... TCSA could easily wreck anything, we just didn't see it land (Dio buggered up Dire before it even landed) and ES was pretty deadly when it wanted to (and when it wasn't deflected by plot armour and DIO (because of course it was deflected by DIO))... so... yeah, TCSA if landed on GER could split it.

        Loading editor
    • I think GER can defeat any enemy, if he knows who the enemy is, and if the enemy starts a distance away.

      If jotaro or rohan happened to betray giorno they could probably win.

        Loading editor
    • Hey Ya! could instantly stomp out GER with no problems. RTZ? Just encourage Pocoloco so that he's immune because why not?

        Loading editor
    • I don’t think that’s how it works

        Loading editor
    • Hang on. Couldn't Kuality Queen kill GER by killing Giorno (yes I really want Giorno dead) but with like infinite sneak? 1 v 1 ofc it gets rekt but if it can just make something that Giorno is likely to touch (you can not tell me that GER has omniscience now and can see everything everytime). I know that Crazy Diamond fixed H A Y A T O immediately but Josuke was aware what was going on so he could react. If Giorno got bombed insantly GER would have to be bombed too, right? (what, is GER's reaction time a literal nanosecond? And yes, one of Harvest did survive not for long, I still doubt can be that functional exploded unless it works even when blown to pieces)


      And also, I saw like a jokeish comment that Death 13 can kill Giorno because he always has a dream but for real... can't Death 13 (like properly developed one) kill Giorno in his sleep? What's GER going to to, rewind before Giorno sleeps? 

        Loading editor
    • also ger cant stop killer queen cause despite its descirption it doesnt actually rewind time it puts you in a reset that keeps reseting but its more of hopping worlds

        Loading editor
    • That one vampire that nearly killed Dio in Part 1 could beat GER because he would've killed the guy who straight up said no to GER's no, had it not been for the sun

        Loading editor
    • That one door vampire from part two who would have won if he used his ultimate power

        Loading editor
    • KarsMarsBars wrote:
      That one door vampire from part two who would have won if he used his ultimate power

      Wired Beck?

        Loading editor
    • Yeah lol

        Loading editor
    • RealMattForsyth wrote:
      Possibly Novel Kars?

      Possibly, man is a fact that kars can defeat GER, he can literally stole stands and create ultimate requiems by his own

        Loading editor
    • yes ultimate killer queen would mash ger he cant even stop his sheer heart attack

        Loading editor
    • Speaking of SHA, I know it's obv based on the song of the same name but honestly it reminds me more of "Run like hell" by Drink Boyd. Truthfully it would be more fitting name for the victims rather than the bomb itself, but the song and bomb carry the same point: you're being chased by something that wants you ded, forget everything and save yourself or you will... *puts glasses on*... bite the dust.

        Loading editor
    • Ger can't set love train to zero. Someone else would be effected by it. Taegis misunderstands the explaination of tusk's and love train's powers. When they say gravity they are reffering to spin which is the same energy god used to create the universe in sbr. Tusks golden spin carries the energy that helped create the universe. The golden spin is as divine as love train. Ger can't stop golden spin because its divine. Thats not good enough? The golden spin is infinite. What is infinite returned to 0? It's still infinite. Ger cant effect it. Best he could do is pause it for a few seconds before it breaks through all ger's defenses and ends him completely. Take this info up the butt ger fags. 

        Loading editor
    • Dude, do you supply Araki with the shit he smokes when he's writting JoJo? Cause what the fuck did I just read? Johnny is using the same energy god used to create the universe? I wonder which mountain you had to climb to find the person that gave you this information. Holy shit man, I really doubt JoJosapien when it says the average iq of JoJo fans is 112.

      Now... I know its hard to understand... but... but you need to cope... Did you not realize gold experience can reset willpower as well? Like why reset love train when Giorno can reset Valentine's willpower... That was what happened to Diavolo if you didn't realize...

      Tears

      This is so sad Johnny, play despacito.

      (I had a good laugh)
        Loading editor
    • Now this, this chat was awesome lol. Like I just witnessed golden wind all over again.

        Loading editor
    • TugspTH wrote:
      Can anything beat GER except OverHeaven stands since they can easily negate requiem power. Personally my answer is probably nothing can. Anyone got your own opinion?

      Tusk Act 4, and D4c. We need to understand first. Infinity isnt a number.. if ger can return to zero infinity that means infinity is a number. Can you count infinity? Probably not right? So returning something infinite like Tusk is mainly impossible becus of simply of this infinity isnt a number. We must also understand simply that Tusk is godtier stand based on what we saw it can BREAK THROUGH A DIMENSION WALL CAPABLE OF REDIRECTING EVERYTHING BACK to the person. Tusk is beyond op if ger got hit by tusk 4 punch he can't stop that. Even d4c which is capable of changing realitys and dimensions couldn't remove the spin. Should I explain this? When D4c just pulls a giorno from another dimension no matter how fast ger is or no matter how good his strenght is two giornos cannot exist in the same dimension period. So before ger can rtz he's gone.

        Loading editor
    • This conversation is so hecking old, can we stop now?

        Loading editor
    • Hm ... Olha, a única coisa que eu poderia pensar que poderia derrotar o GER seria com o Whitesnake já removendo o Disco GER, como você viu quando o Disco de um Suporte está sendo removido, ele não pode se mover ou executar qualquer ação, e provavelmente se o Stand pudesse lutar enquanto o disco já estava sendo removido, Pucci não teria feito tudo o que fez.

      Nota: Este é um cenário em que o WS já estaria removendo o disco Giorno, portanto não conta como uma vitória desde que deixei o WS preparado para remover o disco.

      Ou ... Poderíamos pegar o Requiem de Chariot de Prata e fazê-lo controlar o Requiem de Experiência de Ouro para não usar sua própria Habilidade e matar o Giorno.

      Nota 2: usei o Google Tradutor para falar porque meu inglês ainda não é o melhor.

        Loading editor

    • Ah ok. O Whitesnake provavelmente poderia derrotar o GER se removesse o disco do suporte. Embora isso provavelmente nunca aconteça por causa do "retorno à capacidade zero" Nota: usei o Google Tradutor para falar isso, falo inglês

        Loading editor
    • MINE!

        Loading editor
    • bruh momento

      GER restablece la fuerza de voluntad, Whitesnake no podría lanzar un ataque sorpresa porque GER puede reaccionar

      For the engrish people: GER resets willpower, Whitesnake wouldn't be able to land a surpise attack because GER can react

      yikes i hope i translated correctly

      edit: ah guess i should shut up before people reply (im looking at you)

        Loading editor
    • Emmanuel Kane wrote:

      TugspTH wrote:
      Can anything beat GER except OverHeaven stands since they can easily negate requiem power. Personally my answer is probably nothing can. Anyone got your own opinion?

      Tusk Act 4, and D4c. We need to understand first. Infinity isnt a number.. if ger can return to zero infinity that means infinity is a number. Can you count infinity? Probably not right? So returning something infinite like Tusk is mainly impossible becus of simply of this infinity isnt a number. We must also understand simply that Tusk is godtier stand based on what we saw it can BREAK THROUGH A DIMENSION WALL CAPABLE OF REDIRECTING EVERYTHING BACK to the person. Tusk is beyond op if ger got hit by tusk 4 punch he can't stop that. Even d4c which is capable of changing realitys and dimensions couldn't remove the spin. Should I explain this? When D4c just pulls a giorno from another dimension no matter how fast ger is or no matter how good his strenght is two giornos cannot exist in the same dimension period. So before ger can rtz he's gone.

      Not how Requiem works. GER is not affected by things like time or causality. Hell, it was able to revert actions that occurred during time that doesn't exist. Requiem activates automatically to protect Giorno from any kind of harm, so it doesn't matter how fast the enemy is, GER can set it to zero.

      Even assuming your ascertation on infinity is correct, there are plenty of other ways for GER to beat Tusk ACT 4. Giorno can always set the action of Johnny firing the nail bullet to zero, so Johnny couldn't even summon it. Or he could set Johnny's will to zero, so he can't even fight anyway. Same with D4C, GER could always set the action of Valentine bringing another Giorno to zero, so it never happened. Time doesn't matter to Requiem.

      Tusk is definitely godtier, but GER... that's beyond gods.

        Loading editor
    • I wonder what happens if Giorno grabs Anubis

        Loading editor
    • Only way you really beat requiem is either with an overheaven or a more broken requiem. *cough*

        Loading editor
    • SCR cannot control GER to Kill Giorno? Literally one punch of GER can kill Giorno.

        Loading editor
    • TheNormalMan wrote: SCR cannot control GER to Kill Giorno? Literally one punch of GER can kill Giorno.

      We don't really know, but I'd assume GER could still set Chariot Requiem's actions to zero to prevent that. It seemed like Stand abilities still worked on it.

        Loading editor
    • Kingasdfg wrote:

      TheNormalMan wrote: SCR cannot control GER to Kill Giorno? Literally one punch of GER can kill Giorno.

      We don't really know, but I'd assume GER could still set Chariot Requiem's actions to zero to prevent that. It seemed like Stand abilities still worked on it.

      SCR literally needs to be touched and it stops. Since it’s an auto stand, it won’t come back til it’s idk... I don’t study that much jojo

        Loading editor
    • There’s a reason it’s a bizarre adventure

        Loading editor
    • i would say tusk act 4/love train just because they seem overpowered at the same to above level as GER forgive if im wrong. im new and just thinking aloud
        Loading editor
    • i feel like Jesus/Ticket to ride could but i don't really know

        Loading editor
    • Shortskillz wrote: i feel like Jesus/Ticket to ride could but i don't really know

      And that's the major problem with this argument: we don't really know. There are a few other Stands that are presented as being ridiculously powerful but if we're actually measuring feats, there's nothing that really comes close to GER.

        Loading editor
    • how about surface if Giorno accidentally touches it?

        Loading editor
    • Dannyka2509 wrote: how about surface if Giorno accidentally touches it?

      Surface only controls actions, not Stand abilities. Even if it somehow started controlling Giorno, Requiem could still set it's ability to zero.

        Loading editor
    • Made in Heaven and Bohemian Rhapsody put the entire world into total chaos without GER doing a thing at all. That stand isn't as powerful as people thinks.

      Regarding Surface... perhaps it may work, sure GER can rewind its actions... but would he want to do so? If that stand alterates his perceptions then he may act according to them and prefer to kill his perceived enemies instead of rewinding that action. Surface goes against logical thinking. However given than GER has its own will different than Giorno's he would probably rewind that anyways going against that false will.

        Loading editor
    • Kingasdfg wrote:

      Not how Requiem works. GER is not affected by things like time or causality. Hell, it was able to revert actions that occurred during time that doesn't exist. Requiem activates automatically to protect Giorno from any kind of harm, so it doesn't matter how fast the enemy is, GER can set it to zero.

      Even assuming your ascertation on infinity is correct, there are plenty of other ways for GER to beat Tusk ACT 4. Giorno can always set the action of Johnny firing the nail bullet to zero, so Johnny couldn't even summon it. Or he could set Johnny's will to zero, so he can't even fight anyway. Same with D4C, GER could always set the action of Valentine bringing another Giorno to zero, so it never happened. Time doesn't matter to Requiem.

      I disagree regarding time and GER, it literally rewinds the skipped time right after it finished (since Diavolo was going to hit him at the very exact moment he was going to disable it) not during the skipped time. Rewinding Johnny's shot to zero shouldn't work, it already has infinite energy (infinite can't be set to zero at all), but rewinding his horse or his hand while he's aiming should be enough as long as Giorno knows how Tusk 4 works (heck that stand can be defeated even by a normal person with a gun if they know how it works, shot at his hand and he won't shoot anything). The will part's also kinda iffy since King Crimson did try to attack Giorno again during GER's beatdown (to the point I guess the thing is that if your actions are going to be rewinded your will's null as well, not that DIavolo would stop thinking like Kars).I agree though with the D4C part.

        Loading editor
    • That's not true. GER doesn't "rewind" erased time because there would be no time to rewind at all, King Crimson erased it. It's very clear that GER is undoing the erased time itself with RtZ, hell GER literally talks to Diavolo during erased time. It also causes all sorts of weird bullshit to happen within erased time before it gets set to zero. Both the manga and the anime show that King Crimson's ability is still active when RtZ begins.

      Tusk ACT 4 is really tricky. The idea that "infinite can't be set to zero" is kind of a misconception. Infinite is not an integer, it is a concept. So it depends largely on the specific kind of infinite that Tusk ACT 4 uses.

        Loading editor
    • Kindasdgf finally someone speaking what I couldn’t figure out how to put into words and scrapped. Good work new friend

        Loading editor
    • Kingasdfg wrote:
      That's not true. GER doesn't "rewind" erased time because there would be no time to rewind at all, King Crimson erased it. It's very clear that GER is undoing the erased time itself with RtZ, hell GER literally talks to Diavolo during erased time. It also causes all sorts of weird bullshit to happen within erased time before it gets set to zero. Both the manga and the anime show that King Crimson's ability is still active when RtZ begins.

      It rewinded the erased time (it's even shown in the anime, the bullets going back to Mista's gun, the blood getting out of Giorno's eyes) does that mean the ability is weaker than if he'd just set things back to zero in a blink? Hell no, it's just the way it works, Diavolo intended to attack him while the rewind was already happening and that didn't matter cause he was rewinded.

      And I wanted to show that in the anime the same visual effect that plays when Diavolo activates or deactivates KC was shown at the same exact moment he was going to hit Giorno, he had cancelled it but on that exact moment GER entered into action.

      Tusk ACT 4 is really tricky. The idea that "infinite can't be set to zero" is kind of a misconception. Infinite is not an integer, it is a concept. So it depends largely on the specific kind of infinite that Tusk ACT 4 uses.

      Oh yes, you can get absolute and relative infinites in a sense. For example Notorius BIG has supposedly infinite speed. Yet if that's true why didn't he just killed everyone around him? The point is that his speed is relative, he can get the same (or possibly bigger) speed of any possible target that he may acquire. On the other hand the infinity of Tusk's strength should be absolute since it has no end at all. It's relative to it's target only in range (it won't envelop the entire universe). But it's strength is absolute since It will keep spinning for all eternity.

      The energy of a the relative acceleration of BIG can be set to zero since it's not infinite per se, but Tusk does hold a true infinite force on its attacks.

        Loading editor
    • DirePresent wrote: It rewinded the erased time (it's even shown in the anime, the bullets going back to Mista's gun, the blood getting out of Giorno's eyes) does that mean the ability is weaker than if he'd just set things back to zero in a blink? Hell no, it's just the way it works, Diavolo intended to attack him while the rewind was already happening and that didn't matter cause he was rewinded.

      And I wanted to show that in the anime the same visual effect that plays when Diavolo activates or deactivates KC was shown at the same exact moment he was going to hit Giorno, he had cancelled it but on that exact moment GER entered into action.

      I've watched that scene a few times now and I gotta say, I don't know what you're talking about. It seems pretty clear that GER activated RtZ before King Crimson cancels its ability, regardless of whatever Diavolo's intentions were.

      I just wanted to make sure we were on the same page: The rewind is just a visual effect. GER doesn't seem to actually rewind time, because people seem to retain their memories.

      Oh yes, you can get absolute and relative infinites in a sense. For example Notorius BIG has supposedly infinite speed. Yet if that's true why didn't he just killed everyone around him? The point is that his speed is relative, he can get the same (or possibly bigger) speed of any possible target that he may acquire. On the other hand the infinity of Tusk's strength should be absolute since it has no end at all. It's relative to it's target only in range (it won't envelop the entire universe). But it's strength is absolute since It will keep spinning for all eternity.

      The energy of a the relative acceleration of BIG can be set to zero since it's not infinite per se, but Tusk does hold a true infinite force on its attacks.

      Tusk ACT 4 may not have an end necessarily, but it does have a beginning that it can be returned to. Johnny has to call it forth, so it definitely starts somewhere. "Return to Zero" would be a return to that point, before it was summoned.

        Loading editor
    • Kingasdfg wrote: I've watched that scene a few times now and I gotta say, I don't know what you're talking about. It seems pretty clear that GER activated RtZ before King Crimson cancels its ability, regardless of whatever Diavolo's intentions were. I just wanted to make sure we were on the same page: The rewind is just a visual effect. GER doesn't seem to actually rewind time, because people seem to retain their memories.

      The effect does play at that moment, yet the background doesn't changes because GER activated right away. A visual effect? The rewind is not just a visual effect, it's exactly the way in which it works as it's shown, the blood goes back to Diavolo's hand, the bullets get back into Mista's gun. I don't think the anime would violate the manga canon in such way on this case. The only one that remembers things is DIavolo, the target of the ability. But him reminding what happened doesn't mean a thing! Doesn't Gyro remember what happened after Mandom rewinds time? Yeah people won't remember things after BtD gets activated but that doesn't mean all time rewinds work in the same way.

      Kingasdfg wrote: Tusk ACT 4 may not have an end necessarily, but it does have a beginning that it can be returned to. Johnny has to call it forth, so it definitely starts somewhere. "Return to Zero" would be a return to that point, before it was summoned.

      True, it may work that way. But only if GER would have enough power to contain that infinite and get it backwards, GER never faced an inifinite except in one indirect ocassion: when MiH got activated, I made another post treating that topic and no matter what excuse is said GER didn't do anything regarding that. Even when it's said if something has a beginning it could be set to zero doesn't mean that's necessary true in every single case.

      The idea would be that any infinite summoned enery is relative to time (before and after). But GER itself is bound to time in a way: it has an origin. GER couldn't put the boss in the death loop before existing. So why would it be impossible for it to be conditioned by time in another way?

        Loading editor
    • DirePresent wrote:

      The effect does play at that moment, yet the background doesn't changes because GER activated right away. A visual effect? The rewind is not just a visual effect, it's exactly the way in which it works as it's shown, the blood goes back to Diavolo's hand, the bullets get back into Mista's gun. I don't think the anime would violate the manga canon in such way on this case. The only one that remembers things is DIavolo, the target of the ability. But him reminding what happened doesn't mean a thing! Doesn't Gyro remember what happened after Mandom rewinds time? Yeah people won't remember things after BtD gets activated but that doesn't mean all time rewinds work in the same way.

      Gold Experience Requiem does not rewind time. RtZ and rewinding time are totally different things. Time rewind would not work against King Crimson because it straight up erases time. You couldn't rewind back into time that doesn't exist. Moreover, GER can still speak and interact with Diavolo during this erased time period. I've watched the scene in the anime and read the scene in the manga and never saw King Crimson's ability end before GER activated. The animation effect may play but that means very little. Literally in that same episode, David Productions changed canon from the manga when Diavolo stepped on the scorpion, which didn't happen in the manga and ignores Gold Experience's damage reflection ability. So perhaps it's just artistic licence?

      I don't know why you brought up Mandom, though. Ringo gets to pick and choose who remembers between time rewinds and who doesn't. Johnny and Gyro did every time, but Hot Pants only remembered the first few times, when looping though the forest. Mandom is a time-related Stand, and not at all comparable to GER.

      GER is not a time-related Stand, it's a causality related Stand. The standard rules of time and space clearly don't apply to it.

      True, it may work that way. But only if GER would have enough power to contain that infinite and get it backwards, GER never faced an inifinite except in one indirect ocassion: when MiH got activated, I made another post treating that topic and no matter what excuse is said GER didn't do anything regarding that. Even when it's said if something has a beginning it could be set to zero doesn't mean that's necessary true in every single case.

      The idea would be that any infinite summoned enery is relative to time (before and after). But GER itself is bound to time in a way: it has an origin. GER couldn't put the boss in the death loop before existing. So why would it be impossible for it to be conditioned by time in another way?

      I'm not arguing that GER is necessarily more powerful than Tusk ACT 4, just that it's hard to tell. Just as GER is technically acausal, you could argue the infinite rotation is also "technically" acausal. GER has better feats than Tusk ACT 4, but it's really hard to say for sure who would win.

      Additionally, I don't believe Giorno had GER during the events of Stone Ocean, since it seems like he lost it after the Requiem arrow fell off its head when it beat Diavolo. That's probably why he didn't use GER to stop Pucci, and why Giorno decided not to destroy the arrow at the end of Vento Aureo. If GER was permanent, then there'd be no need for him to keep the arrow around.

        Loading editor
    • Kingasdfg wrote:

      Gold Experience Requiem does not rewind time. RtZ and rewinding time are totally different things. Time rewind would not work against King Crimson because it straight up erases time. You couldn't rewind back into time that doesn't exist. Moreover, GER can still speak and interact with Diavolo during this erased time period. I've watched the scene in the anime and read the scene in the manga and never saw King Crimson's ability end before GER activated. The animation effect may play but that means very little. Literally in that same episode, David Productions changed canon from the manga when Diavolo stepped on the scorpion, which didn't happen in the manga and ignores Gold Experience's damage reflection ability. So perhaps it's just artistic licence?

      The scorpion thing is sorta different for some reasons. Do you think GER would allow Diavolo to have such a petty and insignificant death when he planned to give him an infinite death? Cause if that were to be the case (and if GER would have control over the mirroring damage ability) he may decide not to instakill Diavolo right there (perhaps the anime wasn't that wrong, imagine it as GER saying "you're not getting out of this that easily"). As I see it, GER could rewind the erased time since it was going to be the cause of Diavolo killing Giorno. Visual effect or not I'd say it's basically the same. I'm not saying if GER would activate it wouldn't rewind time stop to give an example, but that perhaps GER or Giorno could be damaged during time-stop (a bit of a controversial idea, I mean The World might have a slight chance, since unless both GER and Giorno are totally destroyed in stopped time The World's not winning at all. After all it's said in part 6 that The World is the "strongest, most invincible" ability even when GER already exists).

      I don't know why you brought up Mandom, though. Ringo gets to pick and choose who remembers between time rewinds and who doesn't. Johnny and Gyro did every time, but Hot Pants only remembered the first few times, when looping though the forest. Mandom is a time-related Stand, and not at all comparable to GER. GER is not a time-related Stand, it's a causality related Stand. The standard rules of time and space clearly don't apply to it.

      Whether Mandom could rewind KC is kinda uncertain: one erases time and goes forward but the other goes backwards - if Diavolo erases 10 seconds Mandom may go inbetween those seconds cancelling KC or go 16 seconds (counting the 10 erased) back in time, it's unknown how a match between them would end (Mandom may fuck up Epitaph for example) . Ringo allowing a target to remember or not would be the same. Only Diavolo could remember what was going on since time had been erased for the others. I'm not saying it works exactly like Mandom or BtD, just that it has control of time when a cause activates it.

      I'm not arguing that GER is necessarily more powerful than Tusk ACT 4, just that it's hard to tell. Just as GER is technically acausal, you could argue the infinite rotation is also "technically" acausal. GER has better feats than Tusk ACT 4, but it's really hard to say for sure who would win.

      Additionally, I don't believe Giorno had GER during the events of Stone Ocean, since it seems like he lost it after the Requiem arrow fell off its head when it beat Diavolo. That's probably why he didn't use GER to stop Pucci, and why Giorno decided not to destroy the arrow at the end of Vento Aureo. If GER was permanent, then there'd be no need for him to keep the arrow around.

      I don't think Tusk 4 is stronger than GER: I guess it'd lose 9 times out of 10 (Tusk can be dodged, can be stopped before even shooting), while I do think for example that GER doesn't have an absolute power, otherwise part 6 would've never ever finished like it did, be either by inherent limits of his ability or for it getting disabled (I don't think so, perhaps GER was indeed still active and he dropped the arrow cause it was no longer necessary. Anyway GER getting instantly disabled after a fight is a great weakness (what if someone else attacks Giorno and he doesn't manage to stab GE with the arrow again?)). I guess no one doubts that if Giorno would've arrived at Cape Canaveral Pucci would've surely lost.

        Loading editor
    • Star Platinum The World Can. I Know That GER Can Negate Timestop But The Author Himself Said That Star Platinum Is The Strongest Stand Ever. And We Cant Argue With The Author, Can We?

        Loading editor
    • Freaky554 wrote:
      Star Platinum The World Can. I Know That GER Can Negate Timestop But The Author Himself Said That Star Platinum Is The Strongest Stand Ever. And We Cant Argue With The Author, Can We?

      That was what I was wondering in the above comments: regarding King Crimson I don't think that GER rewinded it during the skipped time but right after (Nonetheless I don't mean KC can ever defeat GER): some of my points are:

      -Diavolo does spill his blood over GER and Giorno eyes. Why even bothering allowing him to do so when GER could return him to zero instantly?

      -The time skip visual effect plays in the anime right in the exact moment Diavolo's gonna hit Giorno, he probably had to deactivate KC to do so, and the rewinding visual effect starts right away.

      -It's said GER exists outside of casualty and time even when GER is bounded by time in a sense: it has an origin, it didn't exist before Giorno stabbed GE with the arrow, his existance was caused by the arrow. If it's bounded by time in such sense why couldn't he be bounded in others?

      Thus I'd guess if The World (that's said to be the strongest ability, not exactly Star Platinum) would manage to kill GER in stopped time... it may work, since it allows interaction with the environment all the time unlike KC.

        Loading editor
    • Don't forget that GER is also described as the most powerful ability. It even says itself that "no ability can stand before me", though Araki likes to exaggerate Stand capabilities, particularly in side panels. Still, I find it likely the GER would retain movement and awareness during stopped time, considering he does so during erased time as well.

      But yeah, GER is not omnipotent. Even existing outside of traditional causality, it has a few limitations. As we said, it seems like GER reverts to normal if Giorno withdraws it, so he can't have it all the time. It also seems like GER, ironically, can't revert things like death, since Giorno never uses it to bring Bucciaratti back. Perhaps it can't use RtZ on something that existed priorto itself?

      This could be an inherent limitation on GER, or it could be that the immense amount of will and focus it requires to control a Requiem Stand (Polnareff himself was unable to control his) that Giorno can only focus it on one task per use. So when he used it at first, his sole focus was to defeat Diavolo, so that's all that GER could do.

        Loading editor
    • Thesuperone342 wrote:
      no.

      exactly

        Loading editor
    • Kingasdfg wrote:
      Don't forget that GER is also described as the most powerful ability. It even says itself that "no ability can stand before me", though Araki likes to exaggerate Stand capabilities, particularly in side panels. Still, I find it likely the GER would retain movement and awareness during stopped time, considering he does so during erased time as well.

      Oh yes, just like the Thunder Split Cross Attack was unavoidable, the Emerald Splash couldn't be deflected, SHA had no weaknesses. I know GER may be considered more... enlighted? Giorno never faced a stopping time enemy, nor any stand from parts 6 onwards. GER's statement shouldn't be taken as absolute.

      Still, I find it likely the GER would retain movement and awareness during stopped time, considering he does so during erased time as well.

      I think so as well (what I say is that given Araki statements and that Giorno never faced, and perhaps never would face an oponent with time stop the result of their duel would be uncertain). GER was never directly hit: perhaps it's as tough as normal GE or even tougher than SHA. But what is actually amusing is not GER defying time skip (and regarding the anime effect...perhaps that was GER cancelling the time skip, it's unknown) but that it defied Epitaph's prediction (sometimes I feel Epitaph as an ability may be more important than the time skip per se): GER defied a fate altering ability, can time stop be considered a "fate altering ability" in the same vein than KC? Probably yes, perhaps Kakyoin could've severely harmed or killed DIO with the 20 mts ES (a partial attack made a hole in his shoulder) but DIO altered his fate in a way GER could deny.

      As you said mantaining a Requiem may be exhausting and probably impossible in a total way (Polnareff couldn't, Giorno doesn't even know what his own does, KQ (I consider it a pseudo requiem in a sense, it allowed him to find a solution for a desperate and impossible task as well) defied Kira and protected Hayato). It's quite probable SP:TW is considered the strongest cause GER dissapeared and SP:TW is permanent (EDIT: that wouldn't be the case, TW is said by some reason to be the strongest ability ever, hadn't read that bit. GER dissapearing shouldn't mean a thing) - that's a huge advantage after all (in the genealogical tree it's said Giorno's stand is plain GE although it mentions Jotaro's as plain Star Platinum, thus I didn't pay it many importance) and MiH almost won cause Giorno didn't manage to invoke it again.

      But that's a huge, enormous flaw for an invincible stand. If a ruthless and cunning person tricks him into using GER against an underling or enemy of him and then GER deactivates that leaves Giorno really vulnerable.

        Loading editor
    • Weirdly, it kind of reminds me of the titan transformations in Attack on Titan. Eren needs both a clear goal in mind and the ability to harm himself in order to transform. I imagine Requiem is something like that. Giorno would not only need the arrow to transform into GER, but also one very clear and specific goal for Requiem to achieve.

      Though, due to the nature of GER's ability, I'm not sure if it could be tricked. It can defy and/or control fate, as you said, and can even defy fate better than other Stands that defy fate. That said, it's definitely not something Giorno can use repeatedly. I'd still argue that GER is more powerful than Made in Heaven, even though MiH is permanent and GER isn't.

        Loading editor
    • Kingasdfg wrote:
      Though, due to the nature of GER's ability, I'm not sure if it could be tricked. It can defy and/or control fate, as you said, and can even defy fate better than other Stands that defy fate. That said, it's definitely not something Giorno can use repeatedly. I'd still argue that GER is more powerful than Made in Heaven, even though MiH is permanent and GER isn't.

      Now that I think, yes: GER may be able to topple TW in raw power, since it does a similar thing than KC in some way: trying to force a destiny on Giorno by altering fate (altering it from the present instead than from the future like KC does). However if GER deactivates due to the sheer power and rarity required to activate it (perhaps Giorno even couldn't: where was him going to aim GER's actions? He may not even realized there was a person behind that (doubtful, yet possible)) it'd be a nice way to balance GER as an immensely powerful yet limited stand.

        Loading editor
    • Ok I’ve thought about it long and hard, and I’ve come to a conclusion. I’m going to break down some of the things I’ve gotten my head around, so bear with me.

      “Giorno reminded time!” Response: No he did not. His ability is too reset something to zero, this works on a universal level. Since they skipped time affected giorno, it appeared as if though it worked for Diavolo, but it once the skipped time that was movable for KC was finished, it was shown that it never happened, causing diavolo to panic.

      “Why didn’t diavolos spirit get set to zero?” Response: He removed his soul against SCR, meaning that he doesn’t have “emotions” per se, therefore since there is no spirit, that function can not be reset to zero.

      Since infinite is also on a universal level, tusk4 would only just make a tie with GER, not beat it. Only fan made stands and overheaven have the possibility of defeating GER, case closed.

        Loading editor
    • “Giorno reminded time!” Response: No he did not. His ability is too reset something to zero, this works on a universal level. Since they skipped time affected giorno, it appeared as if though it worked for Diavolo, but it once the skipped time that was movable for KC was finished, it was shown that it never happened, causing diavolo to panic.

      I don't know why you make such a big deal of this, every action that happens on this series happens during time, if it involves time rewind what's the difference? Can you punch Giorno while time's being rewinded? Hell no, as Diavolo has shown. Also many other time related ability are universal (not sure about Mandom and King Crimson, if KC effects would be at least global can you imagine how much of a disaster it would be? People wouldn't notice other cars while driving for example. thousands of people would die each time he'd activate it)

      The return to zero is progressive, not instantly. The 10 time skip seconds of Diavolo weren't instantly rewinded or the moment he raised his fist he'd be right back at his starting position, yet his blood returned, drop by drop, just like Mista's bullets went back one by one.

      I know the complain is that it'd not be supposedly be able to rewind erased time then, yet just like stopped time, there is "time" running even then (otherwise Diavolo wouldn't be able to do anything, or Jotaro wouldn't have a 5 seconds limit). And GER is so strong it may even rewind to zero that "inexistant" time (even AU Diego finds it weird to explain)..

      “Why didn’t diavolos spirit get set to zero?” Response: He removed his soul against SCR, meaning that he doesn’t have “emotions” per se, therefore since there is no spirit, that function can not be reset to zero.

      What? It was never said SCR did something to Diavolo that affected GER, nullifying his will refers to the will expressed through actions not that he'll become a vegetable.E

      Regarding GER vs Tusk as far as we know it could go any way, GER wins, Tusk wins (if infinite cant be nullified it may reach GER), or tie as you said

        Loading editor
    • “It was never said SCR did something to Diavolo that affected GER” He didn’t, but since SCR swaps souls, and souls are commonly related to your will, theres something there. Diavolo himself destroyed his own soul, nothing else did. Therefore since he doesn’t have his soul, his emotions can’t be set back to zero. Everything else can, just not his “emotions”

        Loading editor
    • Whalordius TDD wrote:
      “It was never said SCR did something to Diavolo that affected GER”

      He didn’t, but since SCR swaps souls, and souls are commonly related to your will, theres something there. Diavolo himself destroyed his own soul, nothing else did. Therefore since he doesn’t have his soul, his emotions can’t be set back to zero. Everything else can, just not his “emotions”

      Didn't SCR only dissapeared when Bruno fully destroyed his light? I'm not sure if it's confirmed that if you destroy that thing you'll die so I won't affirm such thing buy even if that were to be the case Diavolo only damaged it partially, not entirely.

        Loading editor
    • DirePresent wrote:

      Whalordius TDD wrote:
      “It was never said SCR did something to Diavolo that affected GER”

      He didn’t, but since SCR swaps souls, and souls are commonly related to your will, theres something there. Diavolo himself destroyed his own soul, nothing else did. Therefore since he doesn’t have his soul, his emotions can’t be set back to zero. Everything else can, just not his “emotions”

      Didn't SCR only dissapeared when Bruno fully destroyed his light? I'm not sure if it's confirmed that if you destroy that thing you'll die so I won't affirm such thing buy even if that were to be the case Diavolo only damaged it partially, not entirely.

      You don’t die, or else diavolo would have died himself before he went against GeR.

        Loading editor
    • Whalordius TDD wrote:

      You don’t die, or else diavolo would have died himself before he went against GeR.

      I think the same, yet I've read people that thinks the opposite and that Diavolo only saved himself by not fully destroying the light. Bruno on another note didn't care about dying. Nonetheless it was never said anywhere you'd get an advantage against GER by destroying that light, such thing wasn't even insinuated.

        Loading editor
    • Bruno died once the souls were back, since brunos body was dead, bruno died because he had no alive body to return to. Thats my argument when soneone mentions bruno

        Loading editor
    • Yeah, I wonder where the idea of someone dying came from (perhaps the one who came with the idea thought defeating a Requiem would be absurdly easy otherwise?) I don't think that's true since I guess if destroying the orb would kill you, then partially damaging it should harm you right?

        Loading editor
    • what if ger didnt punch the world over heaven and just reverted actions, i mean he cant rewrite reality without touching giorno and ger right

        Loading editor
    • Yes but considering DIO can stop time, he can probably get in range to punch

        Loading editor
    • That's assuming time stop would work on GER, which it probably wouldn't.

        Loading editor
    • Antwhatever wrote:
      what if ger didnt punch the world over heaven and just reverted actions, i mean he cant rewrite reality without touching giorno and ger right

      But that wouldn't be useful to attack TWOH, it may only lead to a stalemate (unless TWOH can bring some sort of immunity if he punches DIO, but that's quite speculative).

        Loading editor
    • You all posting mostly stands yet y'all don't realise he said can ANYTHING beat GER? I have a simple theory, Solaris from Sonic O6. Eggman stated that Solaris ate dimensions for lunch, and could take on 3 super forms at once, and even then they couldn't beat him, he also exists in the past present and future, so Giorno is pretty fucked.

        Loading editor
    • FREDDYTV19
      FREDDYTV19 removed this reply because:
      h
      07:42, June 29, 2020
      This reply has been removed
    • idk about tusk act 4, i think it depends on if Johnny can successfully fire the nail at Giorno and if Giorno can rtz it. i personally think that the nail would be reset but not the spin if that makes sense? i guess it would also depend on the certain type of infinity, although i'd guess it's absolute and uncountable based on its interdimensionality. i do think it's possible Giorno could stop Johnny from ever getting on the horse in the first place, but I'm not sure about the spin itself being reverted.

        Loading editor
    • Radruben wrote:
      idk about tusk act 4, i think it depends on if Johnny can successfully fire the nail at Giorno and if Giorno can rtz it. i personally think that the nail would be reset but not the spin if that makes sense? i guess it would also depend on the certain type of infinity, although i'd guess it's absolute and uncountable based on its interdimensionality. i do think it's possible Giorno could stop Johnny from ever getting on the horse in the first place, but I'm not sure about the spin itself being reverted.

      I think the same, Perhaps GER would be extra cautious against unknown stand abilities, although given his "no stand ability can defeat me" statement it's quite possible he'd get overconfident. If GER gets to know how that ability works just like AU Diego, Johnny has zero chances to win.

        Loading editor
    • I think that GER would win against basically every stand,he could just revert every action into a state of never happening,you use your ability but you never really use it

        Loading editor
    • Munbatbai wrote:
      I think that GER would win against basically every stand,he could just revert every action into a state of never happening,you use your ability but you never really use it

      It's probably that's true indeed, however since every single other stand in this series (no matter how powerful they are, like TW, D4C Love Train, MiH, SCR, etc) has some sort of weakness it's fun to try to find which one may be its weakness.

        Loading editor
    • DirePresent wrote:
      Munbatbai wrote:
      I think that GER would win against basically every stand,he could just revert every action into a state of never happening,you use your ability but you never really use it
      It's probably that's true indeed, however since every single other stand in this series (no matter how powerful they are, like TW, D4C Love Train, MiH, SCR, etc) has some sort of weakness it's fun to try to find which one may be its weakness.

      This is true, GER probably has some weakness. Maybe it can only reset actions when one has been done against it directly? GER only reset Diavolo's timeskip after he attempted to punch Giorno instead of immediately. That could mean that GER could only act out against Johnny once he fires.

        Loading editor
    • DirePresent wrote: It's probably that's true indeed, however since every single other stand in this series (no matter how powerful they are, like TW, D4C Love Train, MiH, SCR, etc) has some sort of weakness it's fun to try to find which one may be its weakness.

      That actually sounds like a fun idea for another thread.

        Loading editor
    • Kingasdfg wrote:
      Yeah GER seems to be both controllable by Giorno yet also can act automatically to protect him. The only reason I suggest MAYBE Tusk ACT 4 is because it's a reality warper, and when 2 reality warpers fight all bets are off.

      Still will be reverted to 0

        Loading editor
    • infinity can't go back to zero, people argue that as a truth set in stone when we've only seen GER going against Diavolo, at least admit some vs for GER can be rather undetermined.

        Loading editor
    • DirePresent wrote:
      infinity can't go back to zero, people argue that as a truth set in stone when we've only seen GER going against Diavolo, at least admit some vs for GER can be rather undetermined.

      I mean, I think people argue that in relation to math in physics instead of stand power. But yeah, Tusk vs. GER seems undetermined until Araki says otherwise. It's like with GER vs D4C: LT; could GER bypass the light, or would Love Train simply redirect the nullification?

        Loading editor
    • Thunder Split cross attack can beat GER or Emerald Splash

        Loading editor
    • Kazaky-0 wrote:
      Thunder Split cross attack can beat GER or Emerald Splash

      I was considering your position till you mentioned the cross attack beating the Emerald Splash which is obviously absurd, how would Dire deflect the Emerald Splash?

        Loading editor
    • I was considering your position till you mentioned the cross attack beating the Emerald Splash which is obviously absurd, how would Dire deflect the Emerald Splash?

      B-but, it's the perfect balance of offense and defense...

        Loading editor
    • Close this thread, it's ass :T

        Loading editor
    • BrianJr14
      BrianJr14 removed this reply because:
      Personally disliked
      15:51, July 4, 2020
      This reply has been removed
    • BrianJr14 wrote:
      There simply is no way for any stand that's existed throughout the series to match or best GER besides the non-canon WOH.
      for example, is useless against it as demonstrated in ASB where Giorno with GER can function normally under distorted time, which he also did against Diavolo at the end of part 5. Rectifying any power relating to not just time but Tusk 4 and Echoes 3's gravity-related abilities, , alternate realities/dimensions such as D4C's Love Train, the aforementioned King Crimson, and Heaven's Door's myriad of abilities would all be shut down instantly

      You do realize both phrases are contradictory right? You admit TWOH is not canon and thus it doesn't count yet you mention ASB: any single thing shown in a game can never qualify as canon:  remember there's this thing called gameplay and story segreggation. So since Joseph's tommy gun bullets can bypass Love Train of all things does that mean all canon Johnny had to do to defeat canon Love Train was to shoot a gun at it man?

      Any single thing Giorno does there may be programmed to only balance the game. If the game were to be like the canon story you'd never be able to win against let's say Jotaro from part 3 with Young Joseph, Jonathan, Dio from part 1... and yet you'll always have a chance cause it's a game.

      The funniest thing of your argument is that if it were to be like in that game, then GER loses against Bites The Dust. Does that in-game interaction makes that canon? Hell no.

        Loading editor
    • BrianJr14 wrote:
      From the canon standpoint, I call it the God of all Stands since it eclipses every known stand in the series. Even the combo of Burning Down the House and Heavy Weather which was explained by Emporio in the final chapter of Stone Ocean, "What a Wonderful World", and subsequently used to kill MIH Pucci is rendered useless. This is all I will talk about and I stand by my input

      How can you even know? There was only a single fight with GER, against Diavolo. There have been several OP stands in later parts

      * Bohemian Rhapsody doesn't seem to have a limit as what character may be brought to life, If GER can bypass an ability that fixes an specific destiny then it should be possible to create a character that bypasses or ignores the Returing to zero ability;

      *Made In Heaven: their interaction is unknown, Pucci moved forward the entire universe, has GER shown anything that powerful? By lack of feats it's undetermined.

      *The World: said twice by the author to be the strongest and most powerful stand ever in part 6

      *D4C Love Train: may redirect GER's actions as misfortune anywhere else

      *Tusk Act 4, it's power is infinite, it's suposed to last forever, till the end of times. It may be said that it's a partial inifinite, not an eternal one and thus be rewinded. But GER's RtZ is towards a relative zero... Can GER oppose such power. It's unknown.

      And for the BDTH+Weather Report part... this is Jojo, any and every single OP skill ever in this series has have some sort of weakness no matter how strong. Whether the weakness of a stand ability affects another stand is actually irrelevant.

        Loading editor
    • Someone close this thread

        Loading editor
    • BrianJr14
      BrianJr14 removed this reply because:
      Messed up quoting
      05:47, July 4, 2020
      This reply has been removed
    • BrianJr14
      BrianJr14 removed this reply because:
      Personally disliked
      15:51, July 4, 2020
      This reply has been removed
    • a stand that using over heaven

        Loading editor
    • or a stand that using requiem again

        Loading editor
    • Depends on what the ability is for both Over Heaven and Requiem

        Loading editor
    • Im late but assuming this GER with ASB and EOH mechanics:

      Cream (Debateable)

      Superfly

      Heaven's Door (Debateable)

      The Hand (Debateable)

      Bites The Dust (Debateable)

      Notorious BIG (Debateable)

      Bohemian Rhapsody 

      Heavy Weather (Debateable)

      Made In Heaven 

      Tusk (REALLY Debateable)

      Ball Breaker (Debateable)

      20th Century Boy (Draw)

      D4C Love Train (Debateable)

      That's it.

        Loading editor
    • can we just not talk about tusk man in terms of debates its always ger vs tusk and its a stupid debate because we dont even know the full power of both stands

        Loading editor
    • Thebannanaworkshop wrote: can we just not talk about tusk man in terms of debates its always ger vs tusk and its a stupid debate because we dont even know the full power of both stands

      Seconded. There's little point comparing these kinds of Stands because we know so little about them, especially GER.

      Comparing GER to anything is a lost cause since we have no idea what its limits are. Everyone seems to have their own headcanon for these sorts of things and honestly we have no evidence in support of our against any of it so "power scaling" is kind of a waste of time.

        Loading editor
    • Easy, 



      Survivor lol

        Loading editor
    • Unless you include the memes such as "So it's the same type of Stand as Star Platinum" (Because let's face it. Every close-range Stand is the same type of Stand as Star Platinum, which makes Jotaro so OP), then no. There aren't any Stands that could match up to GER. Just imagine you did something, and then you press the Reset button. You basically did nothing.

      P. S. That power is also why Diavolo die infinite times. Every time he dies, GER resets and he's in a new dimension where he'll die again (tho I don't need to explain this). 

      P. P. S. D4C Love Train could possibly win since Requiem don't last forever (in my opinion). You always have to insert the arrow to your Stands to activate Requiem and after a battle, Requiem will disappear and GER will become Gold Experience. Love Train could redirect luck (Ik it's not exactly but I'll say it just to keep it short) so it could make all the luck comes to Funny Valentine and Giorno will have a lower chance of activating Requiem (since luck also comes into play). Just a possibility tho, don't put me up on this

        Loading editor
    • ThoNguyen098 wrote:
      Unless you include the memes such as "So it's the same type of Stand as Star Platinum" (Because let's face it. Every close-range Stand is the same type of Stand as Star Platinum, which makes Jotaro so OP), then no. There aren't any Stands that could match up to GER. Just imagine you did something, and then you press the Reset button. You basically did nothing.

      P. S. That power is also why Diavolo die infinite times. Every time he dies, GER resets and he's in a new dimension where he'll die again (tho I don't need to explain this). 

      P. P. S. D4C Love Train could possibly win since Requiem don't last forever (in my opinion). You always have to insert the arrow to your Stands to activate Requiem and after a battle, Requiem will disappear and GER will become Gold Experience. Love Train could redirect luck (Ik it's not exactly but I'll say it just to keep it short) so it could make all the luck comes to Funny Valentine and Giorno will have a lower chance of activating Requiem (since luck also comes into play). Just a possibility tho, don't put me up on this

      GER doesn't reset actions, it simply removes the effect while keeping the cause. I doubt it could beat a stand like Bohemian Rhapsody, which could just summon an Anti-GER for the sake of its story.

        Loading editor
    • Radruben wrote:
      ThoNguyen098 wrote:
      Unless you include the memes such as "So it's the same type of Stand as Star Platinum" (Because let's face it. Every close-range Stand is the same type of Stand as Star Platinum, which makes Jotaro so OP), then no. There aren't any Stands that could match up to GER. Just imagine you did something, and then you press the Reset button. You basically did nothing.

      P. S. That power is also why Diavolo die infinite times. Every time he dies, GER resets and he's in a new dimension where he'll die again (tho I don't need to explain this). 

      P. P. S. D4C Love Train could possibly win since Requiem don't last forever (in my opinion). You always have to insert the arrow to your Stands to activate Requiem and after a battle, Requiem will disappear and GER will become Gold Experience. Love Train could redirect luck (Ik it's not exactly but I'll say it just to keep it short) so it could make all the luck comes to Funny Valentine and Giorno will have a lower chance of activating Requiem (since luck also comes into play). Just a possibility tho, don't put me up on this

      GER doesn't reset actions, it simply removes the effect while keeping the cause. I doubt it could beat a stand like Bohemian Rhapsody, which could just summon an Anti-GER for the sake of its story.

      When I said "reset", I meant that. It keeps the cause and removes the result. You basically have to do it again, which is reset.

      Also, Bohemian Rhapsody could beat GER, if it wasn't limited by its user, Ungalo. You have to use your imagination, tho Ungalo is easy to be pissed off (which prevents you from thinking properly).

        Loading editor
    • Radruben wrote:

      GER doesn't reset actions, it simply removes the effect while keeping the cause. I doubt it could beat a stand like Bohemian Rhapsody, which could just summon an Anti-GER for the sake of its story.

      Uh, the only description of GER describes its ability as "setting an opponent's actions or will to zero." It doesn't mention cause and effect, that's just a popular fan theory.

        Loading editor
    • Kingasdfg wrote:

      Radruben wrote:

      GER doesn't reset actions, it simply removes the effect while keeping the cause. I doubt it could beat a stand like Bohemian Rhapsody, which could just summon an Anti-GER for the sake of its story.

      Uh, the only description of GER describes its ability as "setting an opponent's actions or will to zero." It doesn't mention cause and effect, that's just a popular fan theory.

      Fair enough, but even then, I still don't think GER could beat Bohemian Rhapsody due to its sheer potential, there's hypothetically nothing stopping Bohemian Rhapsody summoning a character that perfectly counters GER.

        Loading editor
    • Radruben wrote:

      Fair enough, but even then, I still don't think GER could beat Bohemian Rhapsody due to its sheer potential, there's hypothetically nothing stopping Bohemian Rhapsody summoning a character that perfectly counters GER.

      The only way would be if GER figures he'd create another "Put Back" to counter Bohemian Rhapsody. Imagining GER drawing it on the floor was pretty funny actually.

        Loading editor
    • But the creatures created by Bohemian Rhapsody only affect people who know who they are. To counter GER, such a character would have to exist AND Giorno would have to know who that character is and what they can do.

      Put Back Man worked because it only affects other created characters, not real people. Making up a character to defeat GER wouldn't work because Giorno doesn't know who that character is.

        Loading editor
    • Kingasdfg wrote:
      But the creatures created by Bohemian Rhapsody only affect people who know who they are. To counter GER, such a character would have to exist AND Giorno would have to know who that character is and what they can do.

      Put Back Man worked because it only affects other created characters, not real people. Making up a character to defeat GER wouldn't work because Giorno doesn't know who that character is.

      On the other hand... GER would probably always win for a very simple reason: no one knows how it works but Diavolo... now that I think about it, GER may be nigh-invincible for that fact:

      1) GER won't allow anyone to keep living if he considers he needs to use RtZ. And it easily deceives the opponent into believing it's just a stronger version of GE... now that I think about it, GER is a fucking genius at the beginning of the fight, he only shows he's faster and stronger than before and gives life to several scorpions.

      GER was shown to be "affected" by time skip as long as it wasn't attacked (he was literally punching the air and his eyes were stained by blood).... it may have been possible for Diavolo to escape if he surrendered and ran away as he planned, without having any ill intention towards Giorno.

      But GER gave him the illusion of himself being only a merely stronger version of his previous self. Diavolo got overconfident and by the time he realized how strong GER truly was he was being pummeled by him.

      I don't want to rest merit to Trish for baiting Diavolo, just saying it may've been teamwork between the two of them instead.

      2) Not even Giorno's told about the RtZ, there's no way for someone to know how it works until it's too late. No mind-reading, no deduction... anything.

      Thus the user of Bohemian Rhapsody would never know what to create to counter GER. The problem isn't GER having to create something to defeat BR, the problem is Ungalo (or someone else) having to create something to defeat GER. I think Bohemian Rhapsody limits may be the user has to create something that works under a set of rules: every single character that was brought had a definited set of powers and abilities.

      Something that surprises me about that stand... perhaps it'd have been waaay more lethal, there are so many godlike beings created in fiction that would instantly start to fight (just like Kenshiro and Raoh): Imagine that stand bringing... for example all the Devilman characters: Earth would be destroyed quite soon.

      And that may be a possible limit (take my word with a massive grain of salt): BR may not be able to bring characters to life the user isn't fully able to understand. Nonetheless I'd say the true limits of BR are the most unknown of all stands ever.

        Loading editor
    • I think tusk would probably manage to beat GER if he can touch giorno.

        Loading editor
    • Problem is, with Giorno's ability, Tusk wouldn't be able to touch Giorno becuase it would get reverted to zero. UNLESS Tusk's infinite rotation becomes strong enough to bypass GER, but whether if it can do that, or vice versa, is unknown.

        Loading editor
    • Someone close this thread before it devolves into Tusk vs GEar again.

        Loading editor
    • What about Green Grass of Home then? A 100% defensive stand. Giorno can't try to reach the Green Baby. GER may RtZ the shrinking of Giorno but only if he takes Giorno away from the baby.

      However Giorno may win easily if the baby were to notice his Joestar mark though.

        Loading editor
    • He can reset the green baby's will though

        Loading editor
    • i dont think babies have will

        Loading editor
    • If a pylon can have a stand then babies can have a will

        Loading editor
    • pylon  had a stand through his passion

      babies legit dont have that

        Loading editor
    • CHoKe456 wrote:
      He can reset the green baby's will though

      That stand may be autonomous, although he can deactivate it. And it has no ill intent against Giorno, the only purpose sustaining that stand is to protect the user not to attack Giorno.

      It's not even lethal or harmful unless you get way too close.

        Loading editor
    • Doesn't every life form have a will to stay alive?

      I dont know but if Giorno reset that he could probably kill him somehow i think

        Loading editor
    • Giorno tries that...and he gets shrinked

        Loading editor
    • does rtz have specific range though? it is shown it could undo actions anywhere in the world

      he could reset green baby's will from somewhere else

        Loading editor
    • no its just that rtz is passive and it cant just be normally turned off and on

        Loading editor
    • Thebannanaworkshop wrote: no its just that rtz is passive and it cant just be normally turned off and on

      To be fair, RtZ isn't entirely passive, as Giorno was able to use it to trigger Diavolo's infinite death loops. We really don't know enough about the Stand to say one way or another.

        Loading editor
    • https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-ef647519cdecdd25ce1fd9b991065552

      Actually the stats review of GER explains the RtZ ability from the two sides, defensive and offensive. It acts slightly differently in both cases.

        Loading editor
    • DirePresent wrote: https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-ef647519cdecdd25ce1fd9b991065552

      Actually the stats review of GER explains the RtZ ability from the two sides, defensive and offensive. It acts slightly differently in both cases.

      Where does that translation come from? I've seen it on here before and I want to believe it but I could never trace it back to an official source.

        Loading editor
    • sorry, my bad. that's an unofficial one, here's the official one

      https://z-img-04.bato.to/images/f5/72/f572908fc9c6ba9db6168bf1dc0b986ef0ab2c84_508834_1560_1200.jpg

        Loading editor
    • A FANDOM user
        Loading editor
Give Kudos to this message
You've given this message Kudos!
See who gave Kudos to this message
Community content is available under CC-BY-SA unless otherwise noted.