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  • Gyro can see stand becuase he also has a stand called Scan that takes the form of an eyeball in my personal oppinoion it is easily forgettable in my opinion. 

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    • Scan isn't Gyro's stand, Scan is an ability that Gyro has only when he has the sacred corpse's right eye. After Gyro loses the eye, he loses Scan. He can see stands because his stand is Ball Breaker. He can only use Ball Breaker when he has the Golden Spin, but it is still his stand.

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    • Actually it's very probable that Ball Breaker isn't his stand. It's not really a part of him, it's spin energy manifested into a stand like state. It's more his steel balls stand if anything. A lot of people don't actually think he can see stands and I agree. A lot of stands also have physical properties that non users can see. 

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    • Ye, Part 7 Stands usually have some abilities that bystanders can see

      (part 8 also)

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    • " it's very probable that Ball Breaker isn't his stand. It's not really a part of him" · So what, Anubis sword wasn't a part of the body of its original owner, Surface isn't a part of the body of Hazamada. It's a matter of the stand bounding with an object. Gyro managing to use Ball Breaker by mastering the Spin doesn't mean it's not his stand.

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    • DirePresent wrote: " it's very probable that Ball Breaker isn't his stand. It's not really a part of him" · So what, Anubis sword wasn't a part of the body of its original owner, Surface isn't a part of the body of Hazamada. It's a matter of the stand bounding with an object. Gyro managing to use Ball Breaker by mastering the Spin doesn't mean it's not his stand.

      Steel Ball Run and Jojoveller describe Ball Breaker as the "power of the Steel Balls" rather than Gyro's power. It also would be odd for Gyro to need to perform the Super Spin to summon his own Stand. While it's possible that Ball Breaker was born from Gyro's mastery of the Spin (like Tonio's mastery of cooking unlocked Pearl Jam) it seems more likely from context clues that Ball Breaker is just another form of the Spin, manifested into the form of a Stand.

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    • Kingasdfg wrote:

      Steel Ball Run and Jojoveller describe Ball Breaker as the "power of the Steel Balls" rather than Gyro's power. It also would be odd for Gyro to need to perform the Super Spin to summon his own Stand. While it's possible that Ball Breaker was born from Gyro's mastery of the Spin (like Tonio's mastery of cooking unlocked Pearl Jam) it seems more likely from context clues that Ball Breaker is just another form of the Spin, manifested into the form of a Stand.

      It surely is the same case than Hermit Purple, a stand based on the mastery of a certain combat skill (to the point Joseph seemed to have it even without knowing in part 2), it being difficult to summon or not doesn't matter that much. Why every stand should be easy to summon?. It's probable that at certain point the mastery of an ability does indeed gives you a stand since both Joseph and Jonathan awakened the same stand and both were hamon users

      However it's a bit tricky, Gyro had no longer Scan, it was not his stand; yet without having neither Scan or Ball Breaker he could use the steel ball to hit a stand, just like the moment he hit D4C in the hand with it, I'd say he had Ball Breaker at that moment but in a dormant state.

      But saying that's not Gyro stand is rather foolish, he can use and summon it, thus it has to be his stand. Even if anyone who masters the steel ball would be able to obtain it, Ball Breaker is still his stand.

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    • We never see Ball Breaker summoned from Gyro, nor do we see anything indicating Gyro has any control over Ball Breaker after the steel ball is thrown. Ball Breaker always manifests from the steel ball, and only when the Super Spin is being used. No other Stand has this kind of limitation on being summoned except Tusk ACT 4, and that's just to use one aspect of Tusk rather than being integral to its use.

      You can actually see during the Mandom fight that Gyro summons Scan briefly. It's definitely a Stand, not just an ability, and one that Gyro himself seems to summon. A third possibility for Ball Breaker's identity (that I forgot to mention in my original post) is that Ball Breaker is an upgraded form of Scan, powered up by the infinite rotation the same way Tusk ACT 4 is.

      If a Stand can be used by more than one person, it's not really "their" Stand, is it? A Stand is a physical manifestation of a person's unique, distinct, energy, and Ball Breaker is not that. I don't buy that Hermit Purple is the Stand of all Hamon users, because that opens up a load more questions that don't make any sense. So the same is true here, if a Stand can be used by anyone who masters a certain energy (Hamon, the Spin, etc.), then it's the Stand of that energy and not really the individual. That's Occam's Razor kicking in.

      That said, this whole mess is a lot more complicated than it should be because the rules of Stands changed a lot with Steel Ball Run and as a result we don't really have a lot of information, and Ball Breaker in particular is quite the silly sausage.

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    • Kingasdfg wrote:
      We never see Ball Breaker summoned from Gyro, nor do we see anything indicating Gyro has any control over Ball Breaker after the steel ball is thrown. Ball Breaker always manifests from the steel ball, and only when the Super Spin is being used. No other Stand has this kind of limitation on being summoned except Tusk ACT 4, and that's just to use one aspect of Tusk rather than being integral to its use.

      Gyro did summon it the moment he threw the ball imbued with the Golden Spin. So why would Gyro need to have full control over Ball Breaker for it to be his stand? Shigechi had to order Harvest to throw away the coin Kira had converted into a bomb instead of just doing so to give an example. Heck, not even Jotaro or Weather Report have absolute control over their stands (they will passively avoid their users to kill themselves). And there are several stands whose use is conditional as well, D'arby can't just use Osiris, someone has to lose a bet against him (who knows, perhaps it's just another ability stand as well), Boy II Man can't be used unlike he wins a rock-paper-scissors game. Those two would never have discovered they had stands unless they’d perform those very specific actions.

      You can actually see during the Mandom fight that Gyro summons Scan briefly. It's definitely a Stand, not just an ability, and one that Gyro himself seems to summon. A third possibility for Ball Breaker's identity (that I forgot to mention in my original post) is that Ball Breaker is an upgraded form of Scan, powered up by the infinite rotation the same way Tusk ACT 4 is.

      Unlike D4C or Tusk (another two stands awakened thanks to the corpse parts) Scan is fully based around it's corresponding part of the corpse (an eye of the corpse), The eye just probably just "forced out" Ball Breaker's true form (as some sort of foreshadowing) and integrated itself on it. By the time he lost the eye since that stand was fully based on it he lost it, just like when Lucy lost Ticket To Ride since it was a stand created entirely from the corpse, not a stand awakened on the person.

      If a Stand can be used by more than one person, it's not really "their" Stand, is it? A Stand is a physical manifestation of a person's unique, distinct, energy, and Ball Breaker is not that. I don't buy that Hermit Purple is the Stand of all Hamon users, because that opens up a load more questions that don't make any sense. So the same is true here, if a Stand can be used by anyone who masters a certain energy (Hamon, the Spin, etc.), then it's the Stand of that energy and not really the individual. That's Occam's Razor kicking in.

      Yet we have more evidence about Hermit Purple being "the hamon stand" than against it. I'd say it can be sorta natural, if someone masters a combat style like that they learn its philosophy, learn its movements, dedicates so much time to it... I'd say in some sense they become so attuned to it they can only develop the stand of the ability cause it's the only way to fully complete the mastery over it (well, more like go beyond it). What would happen if, let's say Gyro learns hamon or Joseph learns spin (or even someone unrelated to those techniques like Jotaro learns hamon) is totally unknown.

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    • We have approximately 0 evidence starting Hermit Purple as anything other than Joseph's Stand. The idea of all Hamon users getting the same Stand just doesn't make any sense. Does that mean Hamon users could get 2 Stands, one to represent Hamon and one that's their "true" Stand? Then why didn't DIO's curse pull out Joseph's true Stand? Or does the Hamon Stand replace their proper Stand? Does that mean if Jotaro learned to use Hamon he'd lose Star Platinum?

      There's way too many assumptions involved in that theory to say anything for certain, so Occam's Razor dictates we treat Hermit Purple as Joseph's Stand.

      None of the other corpse parts have Stands intrinsic to them, so why would the right eye be different? The corpse parts seem to serve as a crutch until the person can properly wield their Stand. Even Tusk required Johnny to use a corpse part until the Civil War arc. Gyro simply hadn't mastered Scan before he gave up the eye, so he lost it.

      Unlike Ball Breaker, the Jojoveller actually lists Ticket To Ride as Lucy's Stand, and not the Stand of some energy or the corpse. She lost it when she lost the corpse parts because she couldn't control it yet, but it's still her Stand.

      I suppose a reliance on the Spin doesn't necessarily indicate it as belonging to the Spin, but I still find it odd that no official source (in-universe or out-of-universe) ever lists Ball Breaker as Gyro's Stand. It's always listed as the "power of the steel balls".

      I believe it most likely that Scan is Gyro's Stand, and that Ball Breaker is just Scan but powered up by the infinite rotation. I don't believe that Ball Breaker is a natural Stand of Gyro, in the same way that Tusk ACT 4 isn't technically a natural Stand of Johnny, because both require a specific technique in order to summon them. Osiris and Boy II Man can still be physically summoned, even if they require specific tasks in order for the user to use their Stand abilities. That's totally different from how Ball Breaker functions.

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    • So why can't an ability stand become the defining stand of a person? It'd not be the only stand that has been shared among several people. The point though, is that each person may give a different spin to that stand (all the members of the Boom Boom family had the same stand, yet it worked slightly differently with each member, not even Scary Monsters has shown the same abilities on two different users). Whether Jotaro's Star Platinum would be modified if he learned hamon is uncertain, but it may be actually possible.

      Scan is fully based on whether you have the eye or not, Gyro was not going to manifest a "corpse eye replacement" for it and that wasn't necessary for the other stands awakened from the corpse (Johnny didn't need to generate a corpse arm replacement for example), it doesn't show any other ability not related to that. Gyro didn't even show that ability again even when he had enough time to do so later and the steel ball seemed to have already been "standified" (to give it a name), it was able to touch D4C's hand, you can't shoot a normal bullet to a stand and deflect its hand with it.

      Ticket to Ride is created by the merging of Lucy and the Saint's Corpse, she even gets in contact with parts of the stand before and she gets nothing unlike for example Johnny. Whether she could still see stands after that is once again never shown.

      Regarding whether's mentioned if Ball Breaker is his stand or not in databooks or so, what's the point of that? He was shown using that stand and given his personality and combat style he wouldn't get anything else, when his full combat style is based on that what else would he develop as a stand? Scan would be a nice thing to get yet he ultimately obtained something else and even better.

      Even Araki says Hermit Purple is "the visualization of Ripple as a stand" not of Joseph's abilities (if his stand would need to be more in touch with his combat style he'd have got something related to his clackers instead I guess) "I needed to decide how I would visualize Ripple as a Stand. Ripple is life energy that travels through the entire body through a special breathing method. Therefore, a concrete visualization of it would be some sort of wire wrapped around the entire body, like a vine. If Jotaro's group time traveled to the world of Part 2, they would probably be able to see "Hermit Purple" wrapped around Joseph just like in Part 3" Moreover not one but two hamon users shared that same exact stand. Would Caesar, Lisa or Will get that same exact stand? It's probable that not since the stand may get influenced by the user's personality or combat style (Wekapipo wouldn't get the same Ball Breaker for sure).

      " Osiris and Boy II Man can still be physically summoned, even if they require specific tasks in order for the user to use their Stand abilities " Sorry but that was never shown, any time we saw their stands they summoned them by performing those specific abilities. Also we've seen Johnny using Tusk 4 even when he wasn't neither riding his horse neither shooting a nail bullet (as shown in the Debunking Araki Forgot Part 7 video at 20:30). Yet we won't ever know if Gyro would be able to manifest it without the Golden Spin will be never known (probably he wouldn't, moreover why would he need to do so at all?).

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    • There is no reason to treat Scan as anything other than a Stand. All the evidence points to it being a Stand. There are no Stands that belong to any specific corpse parts, so why would Scan be different? Hell, Lucy gets nothing from the right eye and when Diego gets the left eye, he gets a totally different ability. Not to mention that Gyro was shown being able to see and interact with Stands before he got it. Either the Spin can inherently do that, or the rules of Stands have changed in SBR, which other evidence kind of points towards.

      Stands are individualized by nature. No two people can have the same Stand, that's one of the few defining rules. Granted, the rules are different in SBR, but there's no actual examples of sharing Stands except amongst animals, who have less mental differentiation. Even with Tomb of the Boom, while they all share the same name, they function differently. I find it convincing evidence that every other Stand in the series (well, most of them) have a listed Stand User except for Ball Breaker. There's a reason for that, being Ball Breaker isn't Gyro's natural Stand, Scan is.

      Araki's comments on Hermit Purple as "the visualization of the Ripple as a Stand," are referring to its design. The gang seeing Hermit Purple wrapped around Joseph is an indicator he was using his Stand subconsciously, like Giorno did when he hid the gangster in the grass (hence why in Battle Tendency, Joseph was always able to predict what people were going to say/do) . Hermit Purple can conduct Hamon (though it's no better a conductor than anything else, from what we can see) but it has abilities completely unrelated to Hamon. Divinations and electronics control are shown as Hermit Purple's primary abilities, and it doesn't use Hamon remotely the same way Tusk or Ball Breaker uses the Spin. For all we know, any Stand can conduct Hamon like Hermit Purple. Hermit Purple being a "Hamon Stand" is an assumption.

      Also, that "Debunking Araki Forgot" video has a few problems. The implication of the scene where Johnny seemingly uses ACT 4 without the horse is that Johnny has already used the infinite spin on Gyro's coffin. Johnny can summon the punchghost of ACT 4 only as long as the infinite spin remains active. That's why the coffin was shown affected by the infinite spin. Johnny did it so they couldn't take the coffin off the ship. If Johnny could summon the punchghost of ACT 4 whenever he wanted, there are several instances during his fight against THE WORLD where he would have done so. Again, Johnny being able to summon the punchghost without a horse is an assumption.

      I could've sworn there were multiple instances where Boy II Man was used without it's ability, but I'm too lazy to go check so I'll trust your word on that one.

      We might have to agree to disagree on this. In my opinion, the theory that requires the least assumptions is that Scan is Gyro's Stand and Ball Breaker is its infinite rotation power up.

      (Side note: Don't know if you care or not, but you can go on the Jojoveller page on this wiki and it has some of the content. It doesn't have everything from Jojoveller, but has snippets from Araki's commentary on each Stand, in case you wanted to take a look.)

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    • Well it seems we won't agree with this at all after all, I never said Scan wasn't a stand, just that it was on the same vein than Ticket To Ride, a power awakened from the corpse that doesn't belong to its user. Any other spin user with the same ball type would probably have got it, and not any other single stand user who got his/her stand awakened from the corpse demonstrated such a dependance on the specific body part that awakened it (Gyro's eye on the ball even says TURBO just like the eye, it was all its influence: no eye, no Scan, that's all).

      Regarding Gyro seeing stands some of them, well there were some explanations of the debunking video. It could be said Gyro stand was just "dormant" at the time being. It's also funny: I had said two people could have the same stand (like Joseph and Jonathan did) but they would end up having particular differences yet you remark Tomb of the Boom was shared albeit diferentiated when I said the same.

      " Divinations and electronics control are shown as Hermit Purple's primary abilities " Have you forgotten about Tonpetty? It can be possible for advanced hamon users to divinate the future, the part about electronics may be both an extension of that plus the use of hamon to tamper with electronics.

      Regarding the TUSK 4 part, it was said on the video Johnny may be able to summon it but without the ability of the Golden Spin, that's why it'd be pointless to summon it without such power against DIego. However even if he wouldn't be able to summon it without the Golden Spin, I had already given some examples of stands that have specific requirements to be activated (Ball Breaker just has a really complex one).

      I'm not changing my mind, I think that Gyro had Scan temporarily only due to him having the eye for some time; that his stand is Ball Breaker since he needed that stand to complete the mastery of Spin and given that's his combat style he wouldn't need anymore else, he wouldn't develop any other stand cause that ability (even if someone else can develop a similar one) is all what he required.

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