FANDOM


  • Idk, just bored maybe

      Loading editor
    • I'm thinkin' Doobie Wah. Since he becomes a death machine (tf2 scout lol) everytime someone breaths.

        Loading editor
    • The World Over Heaven

      Sorry for lame response

        Loading editor
    • No worries

        Loading editor
    • Star Platinum and by extension The World,  Green Green Grass of Home and   D4C are among just a few

        Loading editor
    • Pretty much any fast and strong stand, or any ranged one.

      King crimson, without the surprise element of appearing behind you and erasing your memories, is actually not that great. It's very strong and decently fast, but it's power only allows him to erase memories and relocate himself.

      Silver chariot was able to fend off Diavolo for a while, Metallica (if outside of King Crimson range) had little problems... Most strong stands are able to do good work

        Loading editor
    • Franfran2424 wrote: Pretty much any fast and strong stand, or any ranged one.

      King crimson, without the surprise element of appearing behind you and erasing your memories, is actually not that great. It's very strong and decently fast, but it's power only allows him to erase memories and relocate himself.

      Silver chariot was able to fend off Diavolo for a while, Metallica (if outside of King Crimson range) had little problems... Most strong stands are able to do good work

      King Crimson doesn't just erase memories, it erases time itself. Give it a little more credit. King Crimson was able to overpower even strong Stands like Sticky Fingers and Silver Chariot, so you'd need either a notably stronger Stand than that or something that can remain very powerful at a distance.

      Automatic stands wouldn't work, as there's no guarantee that Diavolo wouldn't just skip time and run, with most automatic Stands not being clever enough to keep up with him. A close range type wouldn't be ideal either, because being that close to Diavolo is very risky, but certain really strong ones might work, like Star Platinum or maybe Weather Report.

      Most long distance types are too weak to fight against King Crimson in a one-on-one, but there are a select few that might be powerful enough to keep up with him. Honestly the best option to beat King Crimson is probably with a ridiculously powerful long distance type, like Red Hot Chili Peppers or Tusk ACT 4.

        Loading editor
    • I correct what I said abouot ranged stands, as Diavolo seems to be able to become immune to effects while removing memories.

      But thats what he does, he erases memories of time, as the time itself still happens and has effects for other people (Narancia did eat chocolates, Giorno passed a bottle of water, cats passed all over giorno leaving a ton of stepmarks, Bucciaratti destroyed pillars, etc...). Saying that time got "erased" is incorrect, and only creates misconceptions.

      And most fast and strong close range stands would be able to damage King Crimson if they know hs ability or see it happen to someone else. Silver chariot would be able to hurt Diavolo if he tried to ambush Polnareff, as Diavolo recognised. Sticky Fingers has good stats, but the massive differences existing between A levels make this data quite irrelevant, also being useless if Bucciarati stands confused and doesn't have the speed to react

        Loading editor
    • No, King Crimson literally erases time. It's why he's immune to actions that occur while his ability is active. It's even described on his stat page that if you recorded what happened while his ability is active on a camera, the camera would jump ahead, skipping what happened. The consequences of those actions still remain, but the actions themselves are erased. That's what makes King Crimson so terrifying. It's far more than just erasing memories.

      And as we know, most close-range types without time related abilities can't really keep up with King Crimson. Silver Chariot is a top-tier close range type and still got it's ass kicked by King Crimson (twice). It would take a close range type with powerful abilities (something like The World or D4C Love Train) or an especially powerful long distance type (like Tusk ACT 4) to stand up to him.

      That said, most of King Crimson's effectiveness does lie in its ability. If an enemy can bypass that then all they're left with is a slightly above average punch ghost. Tusk ACT 4 in particular would be very well suited to fighting Diavolo.

        Loading editor
    • If the actions efects remain and time kept flowing (clocks still move), then time wasn't erased, only memories were.

      Let's try to stop misusing the term time erasure, because that's more like what a character in part 7 did. At most you can call his ability time jumping, and not even that, as several individual actions (cats going over giorno leaving marks) leave several effects during the "jumped time"

      Fighting Diavolo is as easy as having two good close range stand users back to back.

        Loading editor
    • Franfran2424 wrote: If the actions efects remain and time kept flowing (clocks still move), then time wasn't erased, only memories were.

      Let's try to stop misusing the term time erasure, because that's more like what a character in part 7 did. At most you can call his ability time jumping, and not even that, as several individual actions (cats going over giorno leaving marks) leave several effects during the "jumped time"

      Fighting Diavolo is as easy as having two good close range stand users back to back.

      You can refer to it however you want, but King Crimson definitively erases time. There are lots of subtleties in his ability that can't be explained away as simple memory erasing, like how Diavolo is immune to attacks while his ability is active or how he can defy fate. There's a reason they needed GER in order to beat Diavolo. Memory erasing is more like what a character in part 8 did, not King Crimson.

        Loading editor
    • It's JoJo, it doesn't have to (not will it ever) really make sense.

        Loading editor
    • This may be an unpopular opinion, but I think The World and Star Platinum can beat King Crimson. The World has more of a chance, because of Dio's immortality. Even if Diavolo were to erase time and donut dio, it wouldn't do anything, because we've seen Jotaro do the same to Dio. After KC's time erase, diavolo would be open to Dio's time stop and even if he couldn't stop time he would still be able to kill him pretty quickly.

        Loading editor
    • yeah just dio hiself would be able to defeat diavolo.

        Loading editor
    • I think DIO would have a much better chance than Jotaro, not just because of his immortality but just how he usually fights. DIO has no problem going all out on an enemy right away, but Jotaro is more reserved. Jotaro prefers not to use the time stop right away, instead saving it for an opportune moment.

      Diavolo fights more like DIO, going all out on the first hit in hopes of ending a fight quickly. Diavolo would likely start a fight using time skip and has a good chance of catching Star Platinum off guard. Still, Star Platinum and The World are both physically superior to King Crimson so they have a good shot.

        Loading editor
    • Can't believe nobody has said Made In Heaven yet, it doesn't matter if you skip time, Pucci is still blitzing across Diavolo, faster than he could possibly react, while Pucci just y'know, cuts him every 2 seconds

        Loading editor
    • XZero700 wrote: Can't believe nobody has said Made In Heaven yet, it doesn't matter if you skip time, Pucci is still blitzing across Diavolo, faster than he could possibly react, while Pucci just y'know, cuts him every 2 seconds

      The thing with Made In Heaven is that, while it's extremely fast, it's not very physically powerful outside of that. Normally, that'd be enough and Pucci could hit Diavolo faster than King Crimson could react. Not even Star Platinum was fast enough to hit Pucci without Anasui's help.

      The problem, though, is that Diavolo also has Epitaph. Epitaph would allow Diavolo to know exactly when Pucci was about to hit him and then time his own blows accordingly, and Made in Heaven isn't really powerful enough to survive a direct hit from King Crimson.

        Loading editor
    • Again, That's if Diavolo could react in TIME, and not only that, like you said, Pucci was faster than Star Platinum, and King Crimson and Star Platinum have the same stat as eachother, Pucci could just, dodge King Crimson, then go for another attack.

        Loading editor
    • XZero700 wrote: Again, That's if Diavolo could react in TIME, and not only that, like you said, Pucci was faster than Star Platinum, and King Crimson and Star Platinum have the same stat as eachother, Pucci could just, dodge King Crimson, then go for another attack.

      That's not the point though. Made in Heaven isn't precise enough to dodge an attack at close range. It moves faster than Pucci can actually keep up with, so it has to make wide, sweeping attacks. If it got into close range, it was at risk of being hit, which is why Pucci was rushing in and out so quickly.

      Think of it kind if like Silver Chariot and Hanged Man. Hanged Man is faster, without a doubt, but Silver Chariot was precise enough to intercept its movement path and hit it. That's basically what Jotaro was trying to do against Made in Heaven, only Star Platinum couldn't get the timing right on its own, so it needed Anasui's help. Diavolo, however, would know exactly where Pucci will be because of Epitaph, so hitting him is a lot easier.

        Loading editor
    • Kingasdfg wrote:

      XZero700 wrote: Again, That's if Diavolo could react in TIME, and not only that, like you said, Pucci was faster than Star Platinum, and King Crimson and Star Platinum have the same stat as eachother, Pucci could just, dodge King Crimson, then go for another attack.

      That's not the point though. Made in Heaven isn't precise enough to dodge an attack at close range. It moves faster than Pucci can actually keep up with, so it has to make wide, sweeping attacks. If it got into close range, it was at risk of being hit, which is why Pucci was rushing in and out so quickly.

      Think of it kind if like Silver Chariot and Hanged Man. Hanged Man is faster, without a doubt, but Silver Chariot was precise enough to intercept its movement path and hit it. That's basically what Jotaro was trying to do against Made in Heaven, only Star Platinum couldn't get the timing right on its own, so it needed Anasui's help. Diavolo, however, would know exactly where Pucci will be because of Epitaph, so hitting him is a lot easier.

      We'll have to keep in mind that MiH literally screws with other time-related stands by considerably shorting their duration time, also I'll disagree with Pucci not able to keep up with MiH,  I'll say that Pucci was rushing in and out because he was fighting a team of stand users.

        Loading editor
    • The main problem about King Crimson is that it gives a great control over the fight with predictions and time skipping, so we need a stand that also puts enemy into big disadvantage, like Weather Report, D4C, Man in the Mirror, maybe C-Moon. Of course, other time controlling stands, like The World and Star Platinum would have are good chance.

      But screw that, let's give Young Joseph Anubis and Dragon's Dream, that should do the trick.

        Loading editor
    • Pucci doesn't speak or react any faster than a normal Stand User, so I'm relatively certain it's only his body that's sped up, and not his mind. Made in Heaven does speed up the rate at which time related abilities pass but also keep in mind that Star Platinum was fast enough that, even with the shortened time stop, he still could've hit Pucci if he hadn't had to protect Jolyne. And King Crimson's ability lasts twice as long as Star Platinum's time stop, so I think it's reasonable that Diavolo could hit him.

      But yes, the best Stand for defeating King Crimson is something that is immensely powerful but also doesn't put the user at risk, which really limits it to top-tier long distance types like Red Hot Chili Peppers or Tusk ACT 4. Weather Report is technically a close range type but I'd reckon it's range is still good enough to do the trick.

      Man in the Mirror and C-Moon are in the maybe pile. They both only require one brief moment to grab/hit Diavolo and they win, but considering King Crimson is notably faster than either of those Stands and Diavolo using Epitaph, it'd be difficult for them.

        Loading editor
    • And yet SP failed, and when SP's fists were in milimeters from Pucci's face, Enrico easily dodged, so I still think that MiH allows him to think and react on accelerated speed. And, since time's flow will speed up to the infinity, he just need to wait until Crimson's powers will last a second or less, I also think that  SP punches faster than KC, because, while they both have A in speed, it was shown multiple times that stats aren't the 
      SPunch
      exact numbers, like how Killer Queen easily blocked Echoes ACT 3 with one hand.

      Another big factor is the users themselves. While Jotaro can easily keep his cool in dire situations, Diavolo is a very paranoiac, can rather easily taken off guard and tends to wait until he completely sure in his victory, all of that was shown in SCR arc. So, I think it's fair to say that he will get frightened when the whole world will become faster and his powers will get worse, giving Pucci a perfect moment to strike.



      Also, I completely forgot about Red Hot Chili Pepper, thank you for reminding me. Yeah, I agree, Akira has a chance, but only in a city.

        Loading editor
    • Right but the difference is Diavolo would know exactly where Pucci will be and how he is likely to dodge. Epitaph would show exactly what Pucci would do, how he would react, and where he would dodge.

      Combining that with King Crimson's ability, Diavolo would know exactly when to strike and when to skip time. It's not like Pucci could suddenly change his mind, since Epitaph's predictions are absolute for everyone except Diavolo.

      The only reason Jotaro failed was because of timing. As fast as Star Platinum is, it can't keep up with Made in Heaven. But Diavolo doesn't have that problem, because he can make himself immune to Made in Heaven's attacks with King Crimson and would know exactly what the timing is to hit Pucci because of Epitaph.

        Loading editor
    • I'm afraid that you overestimating Epitaph powers. It shows a single image (In which Pucci will look like a moving blur), a result, not giving all info for Diavolo. And, like I said before, KC and Epitaph's powers will get worse over (very short for Boss) time.

      I guess, we'll just have to disagree.

        Loading editor
    • I think one of us might be misremembering there. Epitaph shows Diavolo a full prediction up to 10 seconds into the future, not just a single image.

        Loading editor
    • If Pucci just stands there, nothing happens.

        Loading editor
    • What about Bites The Dust?: Diavolo may even get to know Kira's identity with Epitaph (or even receive a warning like Rohan in some way). If by the time Killer Queen reaches him he time skips the explosion, BTD has been shown to be able to explode more than once (with Rohan) so I'd say it wouldn't leave Diavolo till he's dead for sure.

      I'd also say any stand that would constantly attack him without giving him a moment to rest: picture Diavolo inside Strength: Strength starts to move everything around him (fan blades, cables, pipes, etc) inside the boat without even aiming. If he doesn't manage to find Forever quickly the moment he stops skipping time the attack won't cease. Moreover Diavolo may not even use Epitaph at the beginning of the fight: he's getting into an abandoned ship, he won't realize there's the probability of the whole ship being the stand.

        Loading editor
    • DirePresent wrote: What about Bites The Dust?: Diavolo may even get to know Kira's identity with Epitaph (or even receive a warning like Rohan in some way). If by the time Killer Queen reaches him he time skips the explosion, BTD has been shown to be able to explode more than once (with Rohan) so I'd say it wouldn't leave Diavolo till he's dead for sure.

      I'd also say any stand that would constantly attack him without giving him a moment to rest: picture Diavolo inside Strength: Strength starts to move everything around him (fan blades, cables, pipes, etc) inside the boat without even aiming. If he doesn't manage to find Forever quickly the moment he stops skipping time the attack won't cease. Moreover Diavolo may not even use Epitaph at the beginning of the fight: he's getting into an abandoned ship, he won't realize there's the probability of the whole ship being the stand.

      I completely forgot about Bites The Dust. It'd be quite tricky to set up, but as far as I'm aware Diavolo would have no defense against an attack like that, so it could do the trick.

      I doubt Strength would work though. Diavolo is constantly checking Epitaph, and combined with King Crimson's ability allowing him to ignore damage for a few seconds, he'd probably be able to find the Forever before things got too out of hand.

        Loading editor
    • Actually, I think Kira can use BTD at will and the "identity trigger" is an alternative automatic trigger. Whether if he can keep his memories in rewinded time is the difficult part.

        Loading editor
    • Brazencoronet17 wrote: Actually, I think Kira can use BTD at will and the "identity trigger" is an alternative automatic trigger. Whether if he can keep his memories in rewinded time is the difficult part.

      Definitely not. If he could trigger it manually, he would've done so after Josuke found out his identity. The fact that Kira can't trigger it manually was one of the main reasons Hayato was able to exploit it.

      I'm more curious as to what would happen if BtD sent someone back into erased time. Like, if King Crimson erases time from 7:05:01 to 7:05:11. What happens if BtD triggers at 8:05:02? It always sends its host back one hour, which would be 7:05:02, but that time no longer exists since King Crimson erased it.

        Loading editor
    • Kingasdfg wrote:

      I doubt Strength would work though. Diavolo is constantly checking Epitaph, and combined with King Crimson's ability allowing him to ignore damage for a few seconds, he'd probably be able to find the Forever before things got too out of hand.

      Yeah, perhaps it wasn't the best example: what I wanted was an example of a perpetually attacking stand: I'd have gone with Green Day, if Ciocolatta would get annoyed by Diavolo to the point of wanting him dead if he pulls the same helicopter attack Diavolo would be totally dead. Highway Star would also demolish Diavolo (a stand like that may even work against DIO given the right circumstances, that's why sometimes the idea of the "strongest, invincible stand" feels stupid to me with such a big variety of stand abilities).

        Loading editor
    • Kingasdfg wrote:

      I'm more curious as to what would happen if BtD sent someone back into erased time. Like, if King Crimson erases time from 7:05:01 to 7:05:11. What happens if BtD triggers at 8:05:02? It always sends its host back one hour, which would be 7:05:02, but that time no longer exists since King Crimson erased it.

      That's why I mentioned that Bites The Dust can explode several times: it won't rewind time till the target's dead, it may explode in skipped time, yet the moment Diavolo gets out of skipped time he has to rest till its next use: he'll be dead and the time rewind will happen.

        Loading editor
    • DirePresent wrote:

      Kingasdfg wrote:

      I'm more curious as to what would happen if BtD sent someone back into erased time. Like, if King Crimson erases time from 7:05:01 to 7:05:11. What happens if BtD triggers at 8:05:02? It always sends its host back one hour, which would be 7:05:02, but that time no longer exists since King Crimson erased it.

      That's why I mentioned that Bites The Dust can explode several times: it won't rewind time till the target's dead, it may explode in skipped time, yet the moment Diavolo gets out of skipped time he has to rest till its next use: he'll be dead and the time rewind will happen.

      No I mean on someone other than Diavolo. Erased time is universal. So if Diavolo erases time and BtD sends its host back into that period of erased time, what would happen?

        Loading editor
    • Kingasdfg wrote:

      No I mean on someone other than Diavolo. Erased time is universal. So if Diavolo erases time and BtD sends its host back into that period of erased time, what would happen?

      Oh I see... now that's more complex cause that person would die and the time rewind would be activated. As far as we know it's uncertain I guess? Perhaps BTD kills the person permanently and BTD gets deactivated right away.

        Loading editor
    • DirePresent wrote:

      Kingasdfg wrote:

      No I mean on someone other than Diavolo. Erased time is universal. So if Diavolo erases time and BtD sends its host back into that period of erased time, what would happen?

      Oh I see... now that's more complex cause that person would die and the time rewind would be activated. As far as we know it's uncertain I guess? Perhaps BTD kills the person permanently and BTD gets deactivated right away.

      I'm wondering if it could be used to stall BtD's trigger, but I guess it ultimately doesn't matter since it'll still end up going off anyway.

        Loading editor
    • A FANDOM user
        Loading editor
Give Kudos to this message
You've given this message Kudos!
See who gave Kudos to this message
Community content is available under CC-BY-SA unless otherwise noted.