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  • In your opinion, which main villain is the less evil and who is the most evil?

    For me (anime only):

    Less evil: Kars

    Most evil: Kira. Dio and Kars is over the top, but Yoshikage is...disturbing.

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    • Well for me, least evil is funny valentine. Because, in his own words, all his actions are in the name of justice.

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    • Kars is the least evil? Since when? He killed his tribe, a bunch of innocents, and got Esidisi and Wamuu to kill for him at times. Least evil is by far Funny Valentine, he did everything because he wanted to help his country, not for his own gain. He actually had good motives unlike Johnny. Most violent is Diavolo, he killed people for his own gain and started the worldwide group of stand users. He gave the opportunity for people like DIO and Kira to kill innocent people.

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    • I think by evil you mean most disturbing, because Kars is pretty much the MOST evil, and Kira is one of the lesser ones. Kars was LITERALLY GOING TO KILL OFF HUMANITY if it weren't for Joseph. Kira did kill a LOT, but nowhere near as much as Kars.

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    • Honestly, I’m not sure. If I have to pick, I’d say Enrico Pucci. I would say Valentine, but he’s an asshole who almost raped a 14-year-old girl and whose only motivation was to be a crazy nationalist that basically wanted to screw over every country which isn’t America and is such a compulsive liar that I’m not even sure if that was true. Pucci, on the other hand, actually did something that’s arguably better than what the protagonists actually achieved. Sure, he’s an asshole who killed and used numerous people, but, then again, so is every bad guy in Jojo.

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    • Valentine wasn't going to actually rape Lucy, he was going to get her to come out of her disguise. She did disguise herself as his wife after all. And Pucci was trying to justify his reasons, but he did some mass murder. Look at the maximum security ward incident and what C-Moon did at Cape Canaveral. Pucci will kill people for a selfless reason, but kills too many in the process. Funny Valentine only kills so many, and the people killed by Love Train aren't his fault. If Johnny, Lucy, and Gyro had not interfered, way less casualties would be present.

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    • Zodazzle wrote:
      Valentine wasn't going to actually rape Lucy, he was going to get her to come out of her disguise. She did disguise herself as his wife after all. And Pucci was trying to justify his reasons, but he did some mass murder. Look at the maximum security ward incident and what C-Moon did at Cape Canaveral. Pucci will kill people for a selfless reason, but kills too many in the process. Funny Valentine only kills so many, and the people killed by Love Train aren't his fault. If Johnny, Lucy, and Gyro had not interfered, way less casualties would be present.

      Hey hey hey, Valentine said to Lucy "I'll have you be the replacement for my wife" after he confirmed Lucy really wasn't Scarlet. He also threatens to kill Steven and her father if she attempts to "escape" by killing herself.

      Frankly, all the main villains are evil on the same level. As long as you kill someone because of your personal goals, regardless of the goal and regardless of the scale of your crimes, you are evil. Plain and simple.

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    • Nabukun wrote:
      Zodazzle wrote:
      Valentine wasn't going to actually rape Lucy, he was going to get her to come out of her disguise. She did disguise herself as his wife after all. And Pucci was trying to justify his reasons, but he did some mass murder. Look at the maximum security ward incident and what C-Moon did at Cape Canaveral. Pucci will kill people for a selfless reason, but kills too many in the process. Funny Valentine only kills so many, and the people killed by Love Train aren't his fault. If Johnny, Lucy, and Gyro had not interfered, way less casualties would be present.
      Hey hey hey, Valentine said to Lucy "I'll have you be the replacement for my wife" after he confirmed Lucy really wasn't Scarlet. He also threatens to kill Steven and her father if she attempts to "escape" by killing herself.

      Frankly, all the main villains are evil on the same level. As long as you kill someone because of your personal goals, regardless of the goal and regardless of the scale of your crimes, you are evil. Plain and simple.

      I completely forgot about that dialogue, mistake on my part. As for them being equal, the ones who did kill for personal goals were everyone except for Pucci and Funny Valentine. DIO, Kars, Kira, and Diavolo killed for a reason that benefited themselves. Valentine killed for his country's success, and Pucci killed for the benefit of the world. Which is terribly done on Araki's part, considering Dio isn't the kind of person to have good aspirations, and would never want to benefit the world. He literally wanted to be the king, after all Also, it's safe to assume that Pucci and Valentine wouldn't of even killed if they had the ability to do so easily. Characters like Dio were made twisted.

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    • Jesseinator1000 wrote:
      Kars was LITERALLY GOING TO KILL OFF HUMANITY

      Calling Kars evil for killing humans is like calling humans evil for killing cockroaches.

      Kars wanted to better his people, but they weren't smart enough to realise he was right.

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    • In terms of death counts, least is most likely Yoshikage Kira. DIO and Kars have both killed hundreds, Diavolo is responsible for drug distribution in Italy, takes advantage of the weak, and he's brutal when he kills, Enrico Pucci is responsible for lots of death probably thanks to his Made in Heaven abilities being worldwide, and Funny Valentine being President, has probably killed a lot as well, not to mention him being a rapist. 

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    • They had all a goal, nobody is truly evil, they are just obstinated. But if you want to say who is the less evil (for me), it's probably Kira. He wanted to stop, it's his very own nature who forced him to do these terrible things...

      He still is a monster but less than DIO, who (i don't think it was the only reason but whatever) just wanted to be the most powerful (maybe because of his mom who wanted him to be the greatest or not be like his father/weak and poor or something like that) and killed many for it. (At less without to much pain)

      Less than Pucci, who killed many for an nearly impossible and fanatic ideology.

      Less than Funny Valentine, who killed for his own egoism in fact, nothing to do with his country because he think that HE is the country.

      Less than Diavolo i think (from what i've seen because i haven't read this part (because part 5 in 1 month))

      Less than Kars, who don't care about every other races, but use their power to kill even more of them, with the goal of make a better world for his race, even when it is totally gone.

      Anyway, they are all sociopath.

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    • Funny Valentine thought HE was the country? Please explain.

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    • He didn't thought he was the country, i explain it bad... He thought that because he was the representive of the country, he could do anything he want to protect it, even things that no one have the right in the said country.

      He only use it as an excuse if you want, he don't really care about the coutry, he care about himself and what he think is good.

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    • Least Evil: Valentine.

      Most Evil: Angelo.

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    • Most evil is definitely DIO. He sexually and physically assaulted a little girl, tormented Johnathan for their entire childhood, doesn’t care about any of his underlings(except Pucci, but even he may have just been the means to any end), kills numerous dogs and at least one cat, kills so many innocent civilians, including babies, manipulated people into doing what he wants(sometimes using literal mind control), and thinks himself the greatest thing since the amount of sliced breads we’ve eaten. All this just because he can(through no actually greatness of his own, as the stone mask was invented by Kars and his stand is arguably Jonathan’s/Jotaro’s). I’ve actually noticed that the ‘evilness’ of each main villain is inversely proportional to their ultimate fate. DIO has the most followers(both in univers and in our world, actually) and keeps getting resurrected. Kars, while sadistic towards humans and rather dishonouravle, genuinely cares for his friends, saves dogs and flowers, and just trying to take his place at the top of the food chain, gets to suffer in space for eternity. Kira, who shows some amount of care towards Shinobu and needs mental help, gets crushed by an ambulance and dragged to hell. Diavolo, while cruel enoungh to be and exception to the rule, still is far less evil than DIO. This sounds weird, but to me him wanting to kill his daughter is kind of his business? Idk. He kills a lot of people, but so does everyone else in part 5. I cants say a whole lot about Pucci or Valentine, since I haven’t fully read parts 6 and 7, but Pucci is pretty in the middle, who gets a relatively tame death while being a misguided, get evil individual in life. Valentine truly wants the best for his country, and works hard to get it, and has Johnny and Gyro(rip) completely ruin all his plans and give him a pretty sadistic death, if I understand correctly.

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    • Well, every of them need mental help. We can't really say who is eviler since they all add their amount of problem in their life.

      Based on act tho, we could say the worst is DIO, who could kill anyone since he doesn't like anyone. (Apparently because his dying mother did care for him and that she said to him he was the most marvelous being in the world (which every mother say to their child btw but since he had a particulary hard childhood it's understandable))

      Kira is probably the less because he did wanted to stop. But his body forced him to do it. It's actually pretty sad and i think he could have met a different fate.

      Diavolo is at the same level than DIO but without apparent motivation, which make me think he is worst. At less DIO care about his family (without counting drunk dad, he even started to like Jonathan...)

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    • Kakorat
      Kakorat removed this reply because:
      Nvm
      02:17, September 23, 2018
      This reply has been removed
    • Also, Kira didn't "want" to stop. If he did, he would stop. His body had nothing to do with it. He followed his pleasures despite not having to, and he payed the price.

      Once again, Funny Valentine is the least. He never wanted to kill, he only had to because others got in the way. Those that did want the Saint's Corpse like Johnny and Hot Pants were doing it for selfish reasons, but Funny just wanted to be patriotic and strengthen America. Keep in mind he is the president, and was doing his job to make his country greater. Him being cruel to Lucy and killing the few workers is nothing compared to the possible hundreds that Pucci killed during Made in Heaven or in the prison. Nothing to the people Kira murdered, DIO killed, or Kars planned on killing. Diavolo is tame compared to those guys.

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    • The number of kill doesn't make you eviler. I'm talking about mentalities. Kira clearly said he wanted to live a peacefull life.



      Who ever said that beside him ?

      Anyway i haven't see Part 7 already so i can't say if Valentine is worse or no, but saying you're doing something for your country isn't an argument.

      Hitler said he was doing all of this for his country.

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    • He wanted to live a quiet life... With the severed hands of women he killed. You can’t pretend like he didn’t want that or could stop if he wanted. He just gave into his urges too much. If he was actually sane and truly wanted to stop, he would seek psychiatric help. But I agree that the reasons you do something are important, which is why I still think Pucci is the most just of the main villains because he actually wanted to create a kind of heaven and advance the human race. Compared to that, Valentine’s nationalistic obsession seems utterly selfish. Plus, we don’t really know how many people Valentine actually killed or what his policies were, so it's difficult to even judge his moral sensibilities. Even if Pucci killed a few more people, you can’t deny that Pucci’s goals were more noble than Valentine’s.

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    • Except Hitler clearly was trying to expand and purposely killing people. Funny just wanted to get the Saint's Corpse and gain power without making a huge commotion. I'm also not talking about killing people, but the intention to kill, which Funny is the only one not applicable to. Every other villian planned on killing no matter what.

      Kira saying he wanted to live a peaceful life was him essentially saying "I just want to kill and go on without repurcussions".

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    • And as for Pucci, he literally caused the deaths of plenty with Made in Heaven. He was also carrying the wishes of DIO, who is ten times worse than every other villian. Heaven wasn't necessary and maybe even pointless, so killing to reach that substanceless goal is kind of pointless. Pucci might not be evil to you, but he is definitely naive in some ways.

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    • Just because he was carrying DIO’s will doesn’t make him any worse than Valentine, especially considering that the DIO from Part 6 was almost completely rewritten from the character he used to be. Evil people and good people can have similar goals, in fact, they do all the time, so that doesn’t really prove anything. As for the deaths with Made In Heaven, most of them were unintentional and unavoidable except the Joestar group, who he got rid of because they were in his way, which is exactly what you credit Valentine positively for, so that’s kind of a moot point in this discussion. Saying heaven is ”unnecessary” is kind of stupid as technically getting the corpse parts was not necessary either. He could’ve improved the country through his policies and forward thinking. He didn’t need the corpse parts in order to improve America, so saying heaven is unnecessary is a weak argument. And his goal was neither ”substanceless” nor ”pointless.” He wanted to advance the human race by eliminating pointless actions and allowing people to do what they wish without the fear of not knowing their fate. This is a noble goal, and arguably even more so than Valentine’s. As such, his goal is not substanceless. As for pointless, I’m not sure what you mean by that. And you can’t really tell me Pucci was naive and Valentine wasn’t. Funny believed he would gain his nation bliss by gaining the corpse, ignoring the many ways the corpse could become the center of conflict easily to those who know about it and that this newfound period for the US would likely come at the expense of other countries and their people. As such, the corpse being pit together was certainly not a genius idea by any means. This is my main point, Valentine and Pucci are in the same league of villainy in terms of moral sensibilities, but Pucci had an arguably more noble goal and could accomplish more good at the end of the day.

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    • The deaths of Made in Heaven were avoidable, all Pucci had to do was see the results of fastfowarding time, and not do it. The Saint's Corpse didn't need deaths to be obtained. That's why Funny wanted it.

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    • Actually, I just remembered that the people get resurrected in new bodies upon universal reset, so technically he didn’t really kill anyone.

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    • Then what was the whole point of heaven? So people could know their fates? If people know their fates and avoid it, they won't have that fate. But that could just lead them to another fate, for the good or worse. So I don't see the point in heaven. 

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    • Heaven allows people to see their fate. This allows people to see the consequences of their actions and to avoid unnecessary and harmful events. This essentially maximizes the productivity if the human race and limits evil to a great extent. That is the point of heaven.

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    • Having only gotten to episode 24 of Diamond Unbreakable in my opinion Yoshikage Kira is the most evil, with Dio and Vanilla/Cool Ice very close behind. Dio killed a ton of people and gave people a lot of brutal deaths, while turning other people into mindless vampires Vanilla/Cool Ice is a remorseless animal abuser, by brutalling beating Iggy, and Kira will bassically come and murder you, if you even know his identity. He basically threatened to kill Shinegechi's family for fun, and plays with the dead bodies of people. Even worse, is that he pretends that he is some holy quiet person. However in my opinion, the Pillar Men didn't nessecarily have evil intentions. They did do evil, but they weren't doing it for the sake of doing harm. Edisi was a total wimp, Santana was useless, and Waamu sided with Joseph while dying, and Kars did massacre his entire race, but if the Joestars had not gotten in the way, I think the Pillar Men would have hot harmed anyone.

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    • Zodazzle wrote:
      Kars is the least evil? Since when? He killed his tribe, a bunch of innocents, and got Esidisi and Wamuu to kill for him at times. Least evil is by far Funny Valentine, he did everything because he wanted to help his country, not for his own gain. He actually had good motives unlike Johnny. Most violent is Diavolo, he killed people for his own gain and started the worldwide group of stand users. He gave the opportunity for people like DIO and Kira to kill innocent people.

      Kars was preatty sick, when he was taunting Joseph Joestar, but if JoJo hadn't gotten in the way, Kars and the Pillar Men probably would have not been awakened. 

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    • Jesseinator1000 wrote:
      I think by evil you mean most disturbing, because Kars is pretty much the MOST evil, and Kira is one of the lesser ones. Kars was LITERALLY GOING TO KILL OFF HUMANITY if it weren't for Joseph. Kira did kill a LOT, but nowhere near as much as Kars.

      If we are talking about sheer destruction, then yes Kars was the most evil. However Kars viewed what he was doing as right and I think knowing him, he probably would have enslaved humanity as his servants. However if we are talking about pure sickness and taking pure pleasure out of doing evil, then Kira is definitley the most evil

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    • Zodazzle wrote:
      Kars is the least evil? Since when? He killed his tribe, a bunch of innocents, and got Esidisi and Wamuu to kill for him at times. Least evil is by far Funny Valentine, he did everything because he wanted to help his country, not for his own gain. He actually had good motives unlike Johnny. Most violent is Diavolo, he killed people for his own gain and started the worldwide group of stand users. He gave the opportunity for people like DIO and Kira to kill innocent people.

      Kars only killed his tribe because his people turned on him.

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    • Zodazzle wrote:
      Kars is the least evil? Since when? He killed his tribe, a bunch of innocents, and got Esidisi and Wamuu to kill for him at times. Least evil is by far Funny Valentine, he did everything because he wanted to help his country, not for his own gain. He actually had good motives unlike Johnny. Most violent is Diavolo, he killed people for his own gain and started the worldwide group of stand users. He gave the opportunity for people like DIO and Kira to kill innocent people.

      I know this is from a while back but while kars wanted to kill humanity. Puci Killed an entire universe minus Emporio. It seems that with his defeat Emporio is the only left as charecters who didn't die like Joske are replaced by altranate universe counter parts as seen in part 8. Also valentine wanted nothing more than the us to be the best and was willing to deflect all other misfortune on to other countries... which if you really think about it is kind of a metaphor for nationalism.

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    • ChinChinGorgosaurus wrote:
      Zodazzle wrote:
      Kars is the least evil? Since when? He killed his tribe, a bunch of innocents, and got Esidisi and Wamuu to kill for him at times. Least evil is by far Funny Valentine, he did everything because he wanted to help his country, not for his own gain. He actually had good motives unlike Johnny. Most violent is Diavolo, he killed people for his own gain and started the worldwide group of stand users. He gave the opportunity for people like DIO and Kira to kill innocent people.
      Kars was preatty sick, when he was taunting Joseph Joestar, but if JoJo hadn't gotten in the way, Kars and the Pillar Men probably would have not been awakened. 

      I'm sure they would have, just later on. Joseph and the others sped up the process. That's probably for the bestt though, who's to say Jotaro/Josuke/Jolyne would have been able to defeat Kars?

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    • Valentine wasn't going to really assault Lucy, he would inspire her to leave her camouflage. She disguised herself as his significant other all things considered. Also, Pucci was attempting to legitimize his reasons, however, he did some Brawling go latest chaptermass homicide. Take a gander at the most extreme security ward episode and what C-Moon did at Cape Canaveral. Pucci will execute individuals for a caring reason, yet slaughters such a large number of all the while. Interesting Valentine just murders such huge numbers of, and the general population executed by Love Train aren't his blame. In the event that Johnny, Lucy, and Gyro had not meddled, way fewer losses would be available.

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    • Yeah, no. Even after Valentine revealed her disguise, he proceeded in the act, against Lucy’s consent. If that's not sexual assault, then I don’t know what is. Also, those people killed by Love Train were definitely his fault. Yes, Gyro may have been the one to fire the shot, but Valentine put up the barrier with the full knowledge that innocents would die. That directly puts him at blame for their deaths. And it’s not like Valentine gave a crap about people’s lives, because he clearly didn’t. He and Pucci are the same.

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    • Yeah, except Pucci killed TOO many for it to be just justifiable. Even if they are revived, he clearly cared too little for people. Valentine killed a more justifiable amount. Also, Gyro and Johnny attacked Love Train knowing fully it would kill someone. 

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    • First off, they only attacked it like that at the beginning, because they didn’t really understand how it work, and then the remainder of the time they spent trying to bypass it, so it’s not like they just continuously attacked the barrier knowing that they were killing people and didn’t give a shit. Also, that doesn’t make Valentine any less guilty in the scenario. If a person fires a gun and the person whom the shot would hit pulled another person in front of them, making them take the bullet and die. They are both at blame for that person’s death, but the one who pulled that person is more at fault because they were the one who directly forced the death of an innocent person. It is the same case with Valentine and Love Train. Finally, how many deaths are justifiable is really just a case of personal opinion. Valentine killed a lot of people to achieve his goal, let’s make no ifs ands or buts about it. On screen, Pucci killed more, that’s a fact I cannot deny. However, not only did Pucci resurrect all those people, but he also had a more noble goal imo on a much grander scale. It’s really up to a personal sense of morality as to who you consider less evil I suppose, but there is no heaven and earth difference here.

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    • my list of most evil to least:

      kars, diavolo, dio, valentine, kira/pucci

      not completely sure tho

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    • TheBestAround150 wrote:
      my list of most evil to least:

      kars, diavolo, dio, valentine, kira/pucci

      not completely sure tho

      Seriously? Kars is less evil than Diavolo, DIO and Kira? Along with Pucci and Valentine, Kars is one of the least evil.

      "BUT HE KILLS PEOPLE!"

      To Kars, they're like bugs. You wouldn't consider Joseph evil if he stood on some ants.

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    • Why does everyone assume that because Kira wants to live a quiet life, that means he's not evil? He literally kills for his fetish. So many people died from him wanting to kill. Instead of putting good first, he put his own desires. He is also a hipocrit for saying he wants to live a peaceful life, but also being a serial killer.

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    • I think this thread is the most evil villain in the series.

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    • Well, I'm gonna get some salt from this, but...

      I actually do consider Kars the least evil. Sure, he killed his entire tribe because he deemed them stupid for not following his plan, and referred to Santana as simply a "guard dog". But one thing Kars has that the other villains don't, is respect for nature.

      We've seen multiple times Kars doing something "good" I'm saying "good" and not good without quotation marks because he's still an evil asshole. The "good" things I'm talking about is the part where he kicks the cliff and ricochets to the ground in order to avoid hitting a tiny branch of flowers, and the other time where he saved a dog from being run over by a car. As we know, this is JoJo, so every other villain would just casually ignore those incidents, I'm pretty sure DIO would kill the dog himself and then the driver of the car as well, because he's DIO. It may not mean much, and yeah Kars is still evil, as all other villains are, but those things made me consider him the least evil, even in a small scale.

      As for the most evil... well, it's kinda hard, there's 2 villains that could earn this spot. Either DIO, because... yeah... or Diavolo, because he's a weird Italian man who sells drugs to children, burns entire villages down, sews his own mother's mouth shut and keeps her alive under the ground, do I have to continue? Let's not forget that he wished to kill his own daughter to dispose of all clues that could point to him, but Diavolo isn't really anything infront of the likes of DIO or Pucci.

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    • WZLZ wrote:
      TheBestAround150 wrote:
      my list of most evil to least:

      kars, diavolo, dio, valentine, kira/pucci

      not completely sure tho

      Seriously? Kars is less evil than Diavolo, DIO and Kira? Along with Pucci and Valentine, Kars is one of the least evil.

      "BUT HE KILLS PEOPLE!"

      To Kars, they're like bugs. You wouldn't consider Joseph evil if he stood on some ants.

      Just because "they're like bugs" to Kars doesn't make it any better. Kars slaughtered almost all of his people just because they didn't like his plan on using the red Aja to become the ultimate lifeform. Killing people for disagreeing with you is pretty evil and petty to be honest, though now i would put Kars below Diavolo. Kars is most definitely not one of the least evil villains, but one of the most evil of them all.

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    • TheBestAround150 wrote:
      WZLZ wrote:
      TheBestAround150 wrote:
      my list of most evil to least:

      kars, diavolo, dio, valentine, kira/pucci

      not completely sure tho

      Seriously? Kars is less evil than Diavolo, DIO and Kira? Along with Pucci and Valentine, Kars is one of the least evil.

      "BUT HE KILLS PEOPLE!"

      To Kars, they're like bugs. You wouldn't consider Joseph evil if he stood on some ants.

      Just because "they're like bugs" to Kars doesn't make it any better. Kars slaughtered almost all of his people just because they didn't like his plan on using the red Aja to become the ultimate lifeform. Killing people for disagreeing with you is pretty evil and petty to be honest, though now i would put Kars below Diavolo. Kars is most definitely not one of the least evil villains, but one of the most evil of them all.

      Iunno, he just wanted the best for his people, but they were too ignorant to understand that he was a genius.

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    • john wick

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    • Here’s my most to least villains JoJo villains imo

      Most:Dio Brando, Diavolo, Yoshikaga Kira, Kars, Enrico Pucci, Least:Funny Valentine

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    • i gotta agree with Sirkinsella98 on this (mostly). funny is most definetly least evil, but kars is probably right below diavolo, but i agree with everything else.

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    • Most evil: Dio. Seriously, he killed and antagonized people for no reason every damn time. It's like he did evil things not for the sake of a goal, but just for the sake of being evil. There was literally no reason for him to fuse men with zombie animals, forced that one mayor to drive and then killed him, and tried to boss people around for no reason. Thankfully his interactions with Pucci and the implication that he actually loved his late mother gave him more depth. But I suppose Araki did intend to make Dio as menacing and infuriating as possible, in which case he succeeded. Kira was also evil, though he was too mentally unsound to realize that. He literally killed people to satisfy his kinks and then when they tried to stop him from killing more people he acted as if he's the one being threatened. He's one of my favorite villains though, he was very 'normal' but also very unsettling. It's scary because he didn't even realize that he's evil and thought of himself as a pacifist.

      Least evil: probably Kars. I know most people would disagree, but despite being the most inhuman biologically, he is one of the most 'humane' main villain. He created the Stone Mask not just for himself, but for his whole species. So he's not just an egoist like most main villains at least. And a detail that most people forget is that his species actually tried to kill him first, he only retaliated. So it wasn't really his initiative to massacre them. He's also quite indifferent towards humans or Hamon users, he actually didn't mind letting Joseph and Caesar live shortly after he awakened despite knowing they're Hamon users. His whole betrayal to Joseph and Lisa Lisa wasn't just him being evil and sadistic, it was actually personal. If you reread/rewatch the fight between Kars, Joseph, and Stroheim in Swiss, you'll find out that he only started noticing and hating Joseph after he killed Esidisi. In fact, after growing wings he said that he intended to kill Joseph to avenge Esidisi and Wamuu as well as celebrating his rebirth. So, yeah, he's a horrible person, but torturing Lisa Lisa and Joseph was just his idea of revenge. 

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    • Forwhomthebelltolls6 wrote:
      Most evil: Dio. Seriously, he killed and antagonized people for no reason every damn time. It's like he did evil things not for the sake of a goal, but just for the sake of being evil. There was literally no reason for him to fuse men with zombie animals, forced that one mayor to drive and then killed him, and tried to boss people around for no reason. Thankfully his interactions with Pucci and the implication that he actually loved his late mother gave him more depth. But I suppose Araki did intend to make Dio as menacing and infuriating as possible, in which case he succeeded. Kira was also evil, though he was too mentally unsound to realize that. He literally killed people to satisfy his kinks and then when they tried to stop him from killing more people he acted as if he's the one being threatened. He's one of my favorite villains though, he was very 'normal' but also very unsettling. It's scary because he didn't even realize that he's evil and thought of himself as a pacifist.

      Least evil: probably Kars. I know most people would disagree, but despite being the most inhuman biologically, he is one of the most 'humane' main villain. He created the Stone Mask not just for himself, but for his whole species. So he's not just an egoist like most main villains at least. And a detail that most people forget is that his species actually tried to kill him first, he only retaliated. So it wasn't really his initiative to massacre them. He's also quite indifferent towards humans or Hamon users, he actually didn't mind letting Joseph and Caesar live shortly after he awakened despite knowing they're Hamon users. His whole betrayal to Joseph and Lisa Lisa wasn't just him being evil and sadistic, it was actually personal. If you reread/rewatch the fight between Kars, Joseph, and Stroheim in Swiss, you'll find out that he only started noticing and hating Joseph after he killed Esidisi. In fact, after growing wings he said that he intended to kill Joseph to avenge Esidisi and Wamuu as well as celebrating his rebirth. So, yeah, he's a horrible person, but torturing Lisa Lisa and Joseph was just his idea of revenge. 

      I agree. Other villains who have killed many still aren't as evil. Kars was little different but his intentions were more noble. He wanted his people to live without fear of the Sun. Diavolo just really needed some mental help, and even then he was still pragmatic enough not to go on a killing spree whenever he felt like it. Pucci was a good man with good intentions and he was corrupted by Dio. The only other villain I can't really explain is Kira since he was just born a killer. 

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    • Kira's actions within Diamond is unbreakable are definitely not the most evil, but luckily, we aren't just talking about those actions. Kira murdered 6 people in Diamond is unbreakable that were shown (not counting bites the dust because that is a whole different rabbit hole that I'd rather not go down). That number doesn't take into acount the ones that aren't shown. These murders aren't like others in the series, they are realistic and terrifying. They are true murders. even if they are with killer queen, they are the so simular to normal murders it's uncanny. Most villians just instantly vaporise their enemies with their abilities, like Valentine with D4C and Pucci with made in Heaven. Kira literally murders his foes, and not always with killer queen, Reimi is the perfect example of that. the wasn't blown up, she was sliced across her back multiple times. And Kira had the stand around the time, Killer Queen was obtained through birth, assumed because his father has a stand as well. Kira's distorted world only truely shows when the gang explore his home for clues. Kira hides himself just under cover from everyone around him, blending perfectly with those who stand beside him in the streets. Kira is a villain who represents a twisted world hiding within the shadows of Morioh, and towns like it. That's why he is the most evil. He's not your average despicible villian, he is something much worse, something much more real than that.

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    • ^ I mostly agree with this although I would like to point out that Kira only got his Stand after he killed Reimi hence why his other victims were only ever reported as missing. 

      The most evil thing about Kira for me is that unlike the other villains we've seen in JoJo he's pretty much the only one who doesn't have some sort of other goal in mind. The other villains are evil despicable people as well but for the most part their working towards a certain goal, killing people is mostly a byproduct of achieving that goal (with the exception maybe of Dio in part 1). Kira meanwhile kills just because he likes to kill and feels like he should be able to kill and still live a normal life. The other villains also usually have some sort of hard upbringing or have suffered some tragedy which can help to explain why they're the way they are (the notable exception is Kars who was just power hungry) whereas Kira had a good childhood and a proper upbringing. Kira is a spoiled entitled brat who kills for pleasure and that makes him the most evil in my opinion. 

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    • Kars started going down that path after his entire clan turned on him while he was trying to help them, not really equivalent to being beat as a child but it is a tragedy that began his descent.

      Valentine is least evil because he did nothing wrong. Except try to rape a 14 year old. Probably unpopular opinion but that was mostly on her though. Pucci and Kars had generally good intentions as well so they get honorable mentions too.

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    • Most Evil: Dio Brando Crimes: Poisoning, Murder, attempted rape,continental domination(temporary)(He had most of Europe), Body takeover.  Least Evil: Funny Valentine Crimes: Patriotic murder, attempted rape. Reasoning: Dio is manipulative, sadistic, cold, and domineering. He is capable of using his words to improve hos situation, seeking to be more than his father. He nearly suceeded on both endeavors. While most of his murders can be justified by a Vampires requiremnt of a daily intake of blood, some cannot, as by that point he was drinking in excess to restore his scars.  Reasoning: Funny Valentine is not resposible for death's caused by the Stand Ticket To Ride, as it is not his Stand. His Stand is Dirty Deeds Done Cheap. Funny Valentine had the owner of Ticket to Ride, a fourteen year old girl, stand in as his wife. He then used the Stand Fusion, D4C Love Train to direct all misfortune away from his country, bettering the lives of millions of people. People only died when he was attacked directly, and thus the JoJo of that part (or whoever was attacking him) is directly responsible.

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    • I think Kars is the most evil of all because of his goals; he wanted to rule over the world and use humans as slaves (if I'm not mistaken). The least evil I would say is Valentine cause all he wanted was to help his country. Dio was an evil person, DIO was the same, Pucci thought he was right and didn't wanted to cause any harm, Kira was just trying to achieve a peacefull life (but he was a murderer) and Diavolo only wanted to hide himself and keep on with his business

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    • Another thing I realize now and I don't recall anyone mentioning about Kars is that just because humans are inferior and low to Pillar Men doesn't mean they have the right to massacre and take over. Humans have high intelligence, possibly some people are smarter than Pillar Men. The reason why you don't blame someone for stepping on ants is because ants don't have intelligence and don't have plans to do something greater. Humans do.

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    • ^ this

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    • Zodazzle wrote:
      Another thing I realize now and I don't recall anyone mentioning about Kars is that just because humans are inferior and low to Pillar Men doesn't mean they have the right to massacre and take over. Humans have high intelligence, possibly some people are smarter than Pillar Men. The reason why you don't blame someone for stepping on ants is because ants don't have intelligence and don't have plans to do something greater. Humans do.

      This is like telling a lion that it can't kill the gazzelle even though it's hungry. Food chain 101: Stronger thing eats weaker thing.  Besides, the Pilar Men have to eat vampires, and vampires come from humans who wear the mask. Regardless of what Kars would have done, human lives would have been lost (I say "lost" here with a small grain of salt, as vampires are only technically not allive, despite never having undergone a typical death.)

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    • GAZELLES AREN'T EXCELLED AT INTELLIGENCE. HUMANS ARE MORE EXCELLED AT INTELLIGENCE THAN GAZELLES AND LIONS, AND SO ARE PILLAR MEN.

      When a gazelle dies, it dies. It has no impact on the world other than to keep the food chain going. But humans are intelligent enough to make expansions. THAT is why I said my reasoning. You completely ignored what I said about how other animals can't do things greater than themselves.

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    • The Pilar men have to eat something, don't they? What happens when they're hungry? oh ik! They die, because despite being smarter than humans, some asshole on the internet is a pacfist and doesn't understand how the food chain works. You cannot account something as evil because it wants to feed itself.

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    • You are literally taking this conversation away. This was about whether or not Kars is right for trying to violently take over the world, not about whether or not humans deserve to be eaten. Just because Kars is above in the food chain doesn't mean he has the immediate right to take over the world. Why are you even bringing it up? I was never talking about the food chain and was talking about intelligence. STOP TALKING ABOUT THE FOOD CHAIN. IT HOLDS NO VALUE TO THIS ARGUMENT.

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    • Now, if we go back to the argument, then I can say Kars doesn't deserve to be called the least evil. He was going to kill humans. Humans that can actually better themselves and can do great things. Things that Pillar Men just don't think to do. Does that make sense?

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    • Pilar Men: Exactly like humans, but smarter faster and stronger. However, they require vampires as food. They are higher in the food chain.

      Vampire: made by a stone mask that the Pilar Men created. can be used on Pilar Men/Vampires with the Red Stone Of Aja for sun immunity. if used without the stone on regular humans to make vampires.
      Kars plan: turn most/all of humanity into vamps so they can have a nigh-endless stash of food.
      Kars is right to do this. it will feed his people and potentially give him free hard labor. On the off chance they can find the Red Stone, that means the Pilar Men will no longer fear the sun.
      You forget that Pilarmen can do everything Humans can, they just don't as a matter of principle, as they are warriors, not nesscarily thinkers. However, they can indeed think. Thus, being superior to us, by the laws of nature they have a right to slaughter us to feed themselves. The phrase "survival of the fittest" comes to mind here.

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    • ARE YOU KIDDING ME. KARS ISN'T TRYING TO MAKE AN ENDLESS SOURCE OF FOOD. HE WANTS TO BE THE STRONGEST LIFEFORM ON THE PLANET. You are taking this conversation off the rails with this food chain bullshit. Survival of the fittest doesn't mean he's not evil. HE IS KILLING PEOPLE FOR AN UNNECESSARY POWER. Humans are just like this, and we throw shade at ourselves because we took over the world and are making it progressively worse. It's the same with Kars; he plans to tap into a source of power that doesn't need to exist, and completely ignores everything else. TELL ME that isn't so selfish it's bitter to the core.

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    • No, you bastard. He's saving his people. He wants the red stone so he can make his people immune to the sun. He's helping his race. If i could help my race by killing all population of an animal who carried a deadly disease, i would in a heartbeat.

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    • And that is still selfish. Humans that have learned the art of hamon can stand on the same level as Pillar Men, so can you blame Joseph, Lisa Lisa, and Caesar for trying to stop them? They want to keep them in check so they don't rise up to a power they don't need to possess. They are the good guys after all. Kars was even stopped by HIS own people because they knew that if everyone wore the Stone Mask, there would be too much of a general hunger to be able to support. When they finally had to just kill him to stop him from doing anything drastic, HE KILLS THEM. He wanted to save his people, who were trying to save everyone from his crazy desires. He should of quit it and nobody would of gotten unrightfully harmed. I cannot stress this enough, KARS KILLED HIS TRIBE BECAUSE THEY WERE THINKING FOR THE GREATER GOOD. I've been these cap sentences because it's so obvious that KARS IS NOT IN THE RIGHT.

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    • Kars killed all Pillarwomen, so he doomed his own speces, this made him the worst IMO, while the least evil is Diavolo, as he is mentally unstable and the others are worse (up to part 6).

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    • Red anvil wrote: Kars killed all Pillarwomen, so he doomed his own speces, this made him the worst IMO, while the least evil is Diavolo, as he is mentally unstable and the others are worse (up to part 6).

      Are you serious?

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    • Diavolo is mentally unstable. He also killed a FUCKTON. Just because someone is fucked in the head doesn't mean the terrible things they did are all dropped.

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    • Narisco Anasui is Diavolo’s son because they wear similar clothing and have pink hair. LOL

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    • Look at you, all of you people arguing over nothing just because of some stupid thread. Go act like gay crybabies in another wiki or whatever.

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    • YOU ARE THE ONLY PERSON HERE COMPLAINING. YOU ARE THE CRYBABY. God, how about you go to another wiki since you are the one intruding in on the conversation just to complain.

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    • Penis.

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    • Zodazzle wrote:
      And that is still selfish. Humans that have learned the art of hamon can stand on the same level as Pillar Men, so can you blame Joseph, Lisa Lisa, and Caesar for trying to stop them? They want to keep them in check so they don't rise up to a power they don't need to possess. They are the good guys after all. Kars was even stopped by HIS own people because they knew that if everyone wore the Stone Mask, there would be too much of a general hunger to be able to support. When they finally had to just kill him to stop him from doing anything drastic, HE KILLS THEM. He wanted to save his people, who were trying to save everyone from his crazy desires. He should of quit it and nobody would of gotten unrightfully harmed. I cannot stress this enough, KARS KILLED HIS TRIBE BECAUSE THEY WERE THINKING FOR THE GREATER GOOD. I've been these cap sentences because it's so obvious that KARS IS NOT IN THE RIGHT.

      No. He was king, and thus is to be followed with little to no question what so ever. Disobeying your king often lead to brutal punishments, including executions. Also, do be aware that according to the words of Will A. Zeppeli, 1/10,000 can actually use Hamon compotently. That is a small AF fraction of the human population. Also, we never hear anything of Pilar-women, or any other Pilar-men besides Esidisi, Wamu, and Kars. It's logical to assume that they are still entombed in stone, not deceased. You should also be aware that your attacking this isue with your morals, which you have to disregard when the manga itself describes the Pilar-men/Pilar-women as "apex predators." Qupte: Battle Tendency introduces the Pillar Men (柱の男 Hashira no Otoko), an ancient race of apex predators and progenitors to the Vampires." Apex predators= top of the food chain. That means they can have pick of any lower prey. Morally, Kars' actions are attrocious, but he cannot nesscarily be seemn as evil, because of the fact that he was trying to better his race. Quote: "One of their members created the Stone Masks in an attempt to find a way to bypass their species' weakness to sunlight so they may rule Earth." Ruling Earth was the goal from the beginning, you dumbass. Make sure to actually do research on your point before arguing with anyone, let alone me.

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    • Johndoe-m9 wrote:
      Look at you, all of you people arguing over nothing just because of some stupid thread. Go act like gay crybabies in another wiki or whatever.

      Don't look at me, this is all Zodazzle's horeshit.

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    • How is this just me? You are contributing to this thread right now just as much as I am. There is nobody to blame anyway. This is a discussion thread, so expect arguing. 

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    • I have sucessfully and clamly proven my point. Meanwhile, you have used Caps Lock and intense bouts of anger when you cannot prove YOUR point.

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    • Boysmith2003 wrote:
      Zodazzle wrote:
      And that is still selfish. Humans that have learned the art of hamon can stand on the same level as Pillar Men, so can you blame Joseph, Lisa Lisa, and Caesar for trying to stop them? They want to keep them in check so they don't rise up to a power they don't need to possess. They are the good guys after all. Kars was even stopped by HIS own people because they knew that if everyone wore the Stone Mask, there would be too much of a general hunger to be able to support. When they finally had to just kill him to stop him from doing anything drastic, HE KILLS THEM. He wanted to save his people, who were trying to save everyone from his crazy desires. He should of quit it and nobody would of gotten unrightfully harmed. I cannot stress this enough, KARS KILLED HIS TRIBE BECAUSE THEY WERE THINKING FOR THE GREATER GOOD. I've been these cap sentences because it's so obvious that KARS IS NOT IN THE RIGHT.
      No. He was king, and thus is to be followed with little to no question what so ever. Disobeying your king often lead to brutal punishments, including executions. Also, do be aware that according to the words of Will A. Zeppeli, 1/10,000 can actually use Hamon compotently. That is a small AF fraction of the human population. Also, we never hear anything of Pilar-women, or any other Pilar-men besides Esidisi, Wamu, and Kars. It's logical to assume that they are still entombed in stone, not deceased. You should also be aware that your attacking this isue with your morals, which you have to disregard when the manga itself describes the Pilar-men/Pilar-women as "apex predators." Qupte: Battle Tendency introduces the Pillar Men (柱の男 Hashira no Otoko), an ancient race of apex predators and progenitors to the Vampires." Apex predators= top of the food chain. That means they can have pick of any lower prey. Morally, Kars' actions are attrocious, but he cannot nesscarily be seemn as evil, because of the fact that he was trying to better his race. Quote: "One of their members created the Stone Masks in an attempt to find a way to bypass their species' weakness to sunlight so they may rule Earth." Ruling Earth was the goal from the beginning, you dumbass. Make sure to actually do research on your point before arguing with anyone, let alone me.

      Shit nigga, all that time you spent proving how your argument makes sense could've been spent on making sure it actually makes sense.

      >He was king, and thus is to be followed without any questions

      Kars wasn't king. The manga/anime never states what rank he even was in the Pillar Man society. (also that shit sounds kinda authoritarian)

      >competent hamon users are 1/10,000

      sure, but how does that relate to the argument at hand?

      >we never hear anything of any pillar men except Esidisi, Wamuu and Kars

      motherfucker, how can you act so sure about that when you forgot fucking Santana

      >it's safe to assume they're all intombed in stone, not deceased

      the manga/anime clearly states Kars fucking killed them all 

      also you seem to have forgotten how Kars' stone masks increased the pillar men's appetites/metabolism/whateverthefuck to monstrous levels, meaning the pillar men would run out of food very quickly, therefore they were right to reject his ideas

      >ruling earth was the goal from the start

      that was only Kars' goal, the rest didn't give a shit

      TL;DR: ur dumb and gay, read the manga

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    • I cannot prove my point? You haven't even argued against my argument! You are literally ignoring what I am saying! Do you always win arguments like this? By just ignoring and saying you are on top? Get out here, you make the conversation turn bad.

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    • And as above, @S. Cond Bomb basically lays it down for me. Good job.

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    • Sirkinsella98 wrote:

      Red anvil wrote: Kars killed all Pillarwomen, so he doomed his own speces, this made him the worst IMO, while the least evil is Diavolo, as he is mentally unstable and the others are worse (up to part 6).

      Are you serious?

      what's wrong? Try to immagine the villains up to part 6 in one another's situation, most would have allowed Ciaccolata to do what he wanted, but Diavolo only asked Cioccolata to do something as a last resort, and Kira would have killed Buccellati immediately in Diavolo's place, so Diavolo is the least evil IMO, while Kars was the cause of the extinction of his own speces, which is enough to make him the worst, no? 

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    • Red anvil wrote:

      Sirkinsella98 wrote:

      Red anvil wrote: Kars killed all Pillarwomen, so he doomed his own speces, this made him the worst IMO, while the least evil is Diavolo, as he is mentally unstable and the others are worse (up to part 6).

      Are you serious?

      what's wrong? Try to immagine the villains up to part 6 in one another's situation, most would have allowed Ciaccolata to do what he wanted, but Diavolo only asked Cioccolata to do something as a last resort, and Kira would have killed Buccellati immediately in Diavolo's place, so Diavolo is the least evil IMO, while Kars was the cause of the extinction of his own speces, which is enough to make him the worst, no? 

      Nah.

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    • S.Cond Bomb wrote:
      Boysmith2003 wrote:
      Zodazzle wrote:
      And that is still selfish. Humans that have learned the art of hamon can stand on the same level as Pillar Men, so can you blame Joseph, Lisa Lisa, and Caesar for trying to stop them? They want to keep them in check so they don't rise up to a power they don't need to possess. They are the good guys after all. Kars was even stopped by HIS own people because they knew that if everyone wore the Stone Mask, there would be too much of a general hunger to be able to support. When they finally had to just kill him to stop him from doing anything drastic, HE KILLS THEM. He wanted to save his people, who were trying to save everyone from his crazy desires. He should of quit it and nobody would of gotten unrightfully harmed. I cannot stress this enough, KARS KILLED HIS TRIBE BECAUSE THEY WERE THINKING FOR THE GREATER GOOD. I've been these cap sentences because it's so obvious that KARS IS NOT IN THE RIGHT.
      No. He was king, and thus is to be followed with little to no question what so ever. Disobeying your king often lead to brutal punishments, including executions. Also, do be aware that according to the words of Will A. Zeppeli, 1/10,000 can actually use Hamon compotently. That is a small AF fraction of the human population. Also, we never hear anything of Pilar-women, or any other Pilar-men besides Esidisi, Wamu, and Kars. It's logical to assume that they are still entombed in stone, not deceased. You should also be aware that your attacking this isue with your morals, which you have to disregard when the manga itself describes the Pilar-men/Pilar-women as "apex predators." Qupte: Battle Tendency introduces the Pillar Men (柱の男 Hashira no Otoko), an ancient race of apex predators and progenitors to the Vampires." Apex predators= top of the food chain. That means they can have pick of any lower prey. Morally, Kars' actions are attrocious, but he cannot nesscarily be seemn as evil, because of the fact that he was trying to better his race. Quote: "One of their members created the Stone Masks in an attempt to find a way to bypass their species' weakness to sunlight so they may rule Earth." Ruling Earth was the goal from the beginning, you dumbass. Make sure to actually do research on your point before arguing with anyone, let alone me.
      Shit nigga, all that time you spent proving how your argument makes sense could've been spent on making sure it actually makes sense.

      >He was king, and thus is to be followed without any questions

      Kars wasn't king. The manga/anime never states what rank he even was in the Pillar Man society. (also that shit sounds kinda authoritarian)

      >competent hamon users are 1/10,000

      sure, but how does that relate to the argument at hand?

      >we never hear anything of any pillar men except Esidisi, Wamuu and Kars

      motherfucker, how can you act so sure about that when you forgot fucking Santana

      >it's safe to assume they're all intombed in stone, not deceased

      the manga/anime clearly states Kars fucking killed them all 

      also you seem to have forgotten how Kars' stone masks increased the pillar men's appetites/metabolism/whateverthefuck to monstrous levels, meaning the pillar men would run out of food very quickly, therefore they were right to reject his ideas

      >ruling earth was the goal from the start

      that was only Kars' goal, the rest didn't give a shit

      TL;DR: ur dumb and gay, read the manga

      "sure, but how does that relate to the argument at hand?" That means the majority of humanity cannot defend itself.

      "Kars wasn't king. The manga/anime never states what rank he even was in the Pillar Man society. (also that shit sounds kinda authoritarian)" You are a fool. If you listen to/read the dialog, Wamu directly states that Kars is king of their people. 

      Quote: "Kars is the leader of the Pillar Men, and the designer of the Stone Mask." From your own wiki, dumbass.

      "the manga/anime clearly states Kars fucking killed them all "

      When? i listened to the dialouge and it never happened. please provide quotes.

      "motherfucker, how can you act so sure about that when you forgot fucking Santana"

      Yes, i did forget Santana, but that's besides the point. The manga/anime never state ANYTHING about oyher Pilar-Men besides the main four, and certainly not anything about Pilar-Women

      "also you seem to have forgotten how Kars' stone masks increased the pillar men's appetites/metabolism/whateverthefuck to monstrous levels, meaning the pillar men would run out of food very quickly, therefore they were right to reject his ideas"

      Fair enough, but an easy way around it is to simply turn half the population of the planet, leaving 50% alive, and feeding on the other half, meaning that the food would last awhile before the Pilar-Men would die out.

      "that was only Kars' goal, the rest didn't give a shit"

      Only Wamu was against this because he had "warrior's honor". Esidisi and Kars wanted Earth, and the eradication of all Hammon users.

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    • Zodazzle wrote:
      I cannot prove my point? You haven't even argued against my argument! You are literally ignoring what I am saying! Do you always win arguments like this? By just ignoring and saying you are on top? Get out here, you make the conversation turn bad.

      No, i'm not. Analyze my fucking post before you make assumptions. You have composated for your lack of an argument by screaming like a stuck pig. I have won the argument.

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    • Zodazzle wrote:
      And as above, @S. Cond Bomb basically lays it down for me. Good job.

      PFFT. Can't even argue so he has to rely on someone else. What a weak minded fool.

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    • Are you like... an idiot? I posted a message and YOU COMPLETELY IGNORED it. Call me a stuck pig, but you are literally straight out of r/Iamverysmart. Now, you want me to detest your argument? Because I sure as hell will. This wiki doesn't need people like you who think everyone else is a "weak minded fool".




      1. "Quote: 'Kars is the leader of the Pillar Men, and the designer of the Stone Mask.' From your own wiki, dumbass."

      Taken straight from the link IN the quote "The Pillar Men (柱の男 Hashira no Otoko) are four powerful humanoids that serve as the primary antagonistic force in Battle Tendency." When the wiki article refers to Kars as a leader of Pillar Men, they mean the four main ones in Battle Tendency. If you weren't so rudely confident, maybe you could check your own damn quote.

      2. "When? i listened to the dialouge and it never happened. please provide quotes."

      "Unable to sway them to his side with promises of godhood, he slaughtered his people himself, including his own parents." There you go. Says it straight from Kars' article. It doesn't say ALL, but it's very easy to assume given we never see other Pillar Men other than Kars and his three loyalists.

      3. "The manga/anime never state ANYTHING about oyher Pilar-Men besides the main four, and certainly not anything about Pilar-Women"

      Because they died.

      4. "an easy way around it is to simply turn half the population of the planet, leaving 50% alive, and feeding on the other half, meaning that the food would last awhile before the Pilar-Men would die out."

      And you call that a good and morally correct decision? Kars and the rest of the Pillar Men never needed the Stone Mask or the Red Stone of Aja, they were fine by just eating what they needed. No suffering needed. Think about it, did us humans need to breed livestock for our survival, when we could just stick to our hunter-gatherer way of life? It's more comforting, but unnecessary still. And the argument that Pillar Men are so superior than humans are fine to be killed, doesn't make up for the fact that Kars still killed his people because they didn't want him to become to crazy.

      And last but not least

      5. "PFFT. Can't even argue so he has to rely on someone else. What a weak minded fool."

      Please just get off here if you are really going to act like this. The fact that you act like you are a 300 IQ machine that runs off of fact and thought, just taints the thread.

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    • Zodazzle wrote:
      Are you like... an idiot? I posted a message and YOU COMPLETELY IGNORED it. Call me a stuck pig, but you are literally straight out of r/Iamverysmart. Now, you want me to detest your argument? Because I sure as hell will. This wiki doesn't need people like you who think everyone else is a "weak minded fool".



      1. "Quote: 'Kars is the leader of the Pillar Men, and the designer of the Stone Mask.' From your own wiki, dumbass."

      Taken straight from the link IN the quote "The Pillar Men (柱の男 Hashira no Otoko) are four powerful humanoids that serve as the primary antagonistic force in Battle Tendency." When the wiki article refers to Kars as a leader of Pillar Men, they mean the four main ones in Battle Tendency. If you weren't so rudely confident, maybe you could check your own damn quote.

      2. "When? i listened to the dialouge and it never happened. please provide quotes."

      "Unable to sway them to his side with promises of godhood, he slaughtered his people himself, including his own parents." There you go. Says it straight from Kars' article. It doesn't say ALL, but it's very easy to assume given we never see other Pillar Men other than Kars and his three loyalists.

      3. "The manga/anime never state ANYTHING about oyher Pilar-Men besides the main four, and certainly not anything about Pilar-Women"

      Because they died.

      4. "an easy way around it is to simply turn half the population of the planet, leaving 50% alive, and feeding on the other half, meaning that the food would last awhile before the Pilar-Men would die out."

      And you call that a good and morally correct decision? Kars and the rest of the Pillar Men never needed the Stone Mask or the Red Stone of Aja, they were fine by just eating what they needed. No suffering needed. Think about it, did us humans need to breed livestock for our survival, when we could just stick to our hunter-gatherer way of life? It's more comforting, but unnecessary still. And the argument that Pillar Men are so superior than humans are fine to be killed, doesn't make up for the fact that Kars still killed his people because they didn't want him to become to crazy.

      And last but not least

      5. "PFFT. Can't even argue so he has to rely on someone else. What a weak minded fool."

      Please just get off here if you are really going to act like this. The fact that you act like you are a 300 IQ machine that runs off of fact and thought, just taints the thread.

      1. Okay, granted he did slaughter his own people because they attacked him first when he said "Hey guys i have this kewl new invention that will make us a thousand times better. We'll be superstrong! His people revolted instead of obeying him. Since Kars was king, he has the right to punish them as he sees fit. Not moral, but not technically evil, as it is within his right qand power to do so.

      2. No, it directly refers to him as king, with Wamu addressing him as "Lord Kars" very often within the sub and dub.

      3. Morally, it's not right, but it is a good decision for the betterment of his people, as it would have made them millions of times stronger, and given them free riegn to eat whenever the fuck they wanted. Have you ever tried going twenty-four  hours without food? I garuntee it sucks. No suffering my ass by the way, seeing as the people they do feed on die AGAIN, this time in a horrible painful way.

      4. Am I wrong? the fact that you need to rely on someone else to win your arguments clearly shows your lack of mental foirtitude. Also, machines don't have IQ, you idiot.

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    • Here, have actual manga panels.

      https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/292319033993330688/536400342334832671/unknown.png -Cars kills his clan

      https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/292319033993330688/536400019323092992/unknown.png -the pillar mens' species, including females both shown and proven by stating that they reproduced (which couldn't be assexually, as Cars had two parents, as the first link shows)

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    • Boysmith2003 wrote:
      Zodazzle wrote:
      And as above, @S. Cond Bomb basically lays it down for me. Good job.
      PFFT. Can't even argue so he has to rely on someone else. What a weak minded fool.

      Funny coming from the guy who can't read

      Try making sure you know what you're talking about before you start shit and talk about how smart you are. For your own sake of course, it makes you look like an idiot, it just gives me a good laugh.

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    • 1. That is not how the event went down. You DID NOT pay attention or at least read about it. Kars was hungry for power and wanted his kind to be the strongest, so he made the Stone Mask and it didn't get him there, but it DID make him need more food and probably even crazier. His people wanted to stop him because the mask risked their way of life by making them too hungry. He didn't listen, and it got to the point where slaughtering was the only way. Kars seems calm, but his motives could be possessed by someone crazy.

      2. Wamuu was a infant when Kars slaughtered the Pillar Men. He has no way of knowing what happened then, so him calling Kars king is just Kars presenting himself as it. He was NEVER called king by his people except for the ones that follow him. Doesn't it seem strange that the ones that work for Kars call him king, but nobody else ever does? Sure, they might not of been shown to call him that, but it's more likely that they just straight up didn't ever.

      3. The Pillar Men had what they needed and didn't need anything more. This is about the most evil villian, and unlike Funny Valentine who would only kill if people actively tried to get in his way of helping his country (which wasn't even rude since the corpse parts were IN America to begin with), if Kars succeeded then the rest of the world was straight up fucked.

      4. No, you really aren't. I felt no need to rip on your response when someone else clearly did. It's not that I have a lack of mental fortitude, it's just that I'm kind of lazy. Of course I know machines don't have IQ. You are reading into this too much.

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    • Boysmith2003 wrote:
      Zodazzle wrote:
      Are you like... an idiot? I posted a message and YOU COMPLETELY IGNORED it. Call me a stuck pig, but you are literally straight out of r/Iamverysmart. Now, you want me to detest your argument? Because I sure as hell will. This wiki doesn't need people like you who think everyone else is a "weak minded fool".



      1. "Quote: 'Kars is the leader of the Pillar Men, and the designer of the Stone Mask.' From your own wiki, dumbass."

      Taken straight from the link IN the quote "The Pillar Men (柱の男 Hashira no Otoko) are four powerful humanoids that serve as the primary antagonistic force in Battle Tendency." When the wiki article refers to Kars as a leader of Pillar Men, they mean the four main ones in Battle Tendency. If you weren't so rudely confident, maybe you could check your own damn quote.

      2. "When? i listened to the dialouge and it never happened. please provide quotes."

      "Unable to sway them to his side with promises of godhood, he slaughtered his people himself, including his own parents." There you go. Says it straight from Kars' article. It doesn't say ALL, but it's very easy to assume given we never see other Pillar Men other than Kars and his three loyalists.

      3. "The manga/anime never state ANYTHING about oyher Pilar-Men besides the main four, and certainly not anything about Pilar-Women"

      Because they died.

      4. "an easy way around it is to simply turn half the population of the planet, leaving 50% alive, and feeding on the other half, meaning that the food would last awhile before the Pilar-Men would die out."

      And you call that a good and morally correct decision? Kars and the rest of the Pillar Men never needed the Stone Mask or the Red Stone of Aja, they were fine by just eating what they needed. No suffering needed. Think about it, did us humans need to breed livestock for our survival, when we could just stick to our hunter-gatherer way of life? It's more comforting, but unnecessary still. And the argument that Pillar Men are so superior than humans are fine to be killed, doesn't make up for the fact that Kars still killed his people because they didn't want him to become to crazy.

      And last but not least

      5. "PFFT. Can't even argue so he has to rely on someone else. What a weak minded fool."

      Please just get off here if you are really going to act like this. The fact that you act like you are a 300 IQ machine that runs off of fact and thought, just taints the thread.

      1. Okay, granted he did slaughter his own people because they attacked him first when he said "Hey guys i have this kewl new invention that will make us a thousand times better. We'll be superstrong! His people revolted instead of obeying him. Since Kars was king, he has the right to punish them as he sees fit. Not moral, but not technically evil, as it is within his right qand power to do so.

      2. No, it directly refers to him as king, with Wamu addressing him as "Lord Kars" very often within the sub and dub.

      3. Morally, it's not right, but it is a good decision for the betterment of his people, as it would have made them millions of times stronger, and given them free riegn to eat whenever the fuck they wanted. Have you ever tried going twenty-four  hours without food? I garuntee it sucks. No suffering my ass by the way, seeing as the people they do feed on die AGAIN, this time in a horrible painful way.

      4. Am I wrong? the fact that you need to rely on someone else to win your arguments clearly shows your lack of mental foirtitude. Also, machines don't have IQ, you idiot.

      You are an actual brainlet.

      1. They didn't attack him. He had a fit over his dumbass idea being rejected and went on a rampage.

      2. >Still going with the king Kars thing

      I and Zodazzle already explained why that's wrong.

      3. No, you idiot, it's not "morally wrong", it's plain old wrong. Why the fuck should have the Pillar Men used the stone masks if it just made them 200% hungrier? As I said, they'd run out of food at light speed. Also, they didn't even want to conquer the Earth. Only Kars did.

      4. No. No, this isn't Zodazzle relying on me to win his arguments. This is multiple people telling you why you're dumb and wrong and you just ignoring most of them.

      TL;DR: ur even dumber and gayer than previously thought, WRYYYYYYYd the manga

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    • Zodazzle wrote:
      Also, Kira didn't "want" to stop. If he did, he would stop. His body had nothing to do with it. He followed his pleasures despite not having to, and he payed the price.

      Once again, Funny Valentine is the least. He never wanted to kill, he only had to because others got in the way. Those that did want the Saint's Corpse like Johnny and Hot Pants were doing it for selfish reasons, but Funny just wanted to be patriotic and strengthen America. Keep in mind he is the president, and was doing his job to make his country greater. Him being cruel to Lucy and killing the few workers is nothing compared to the possible hundreds that Pucci killed during Made in Heaven or in the prison. Nothing to the people Kira murdered, DIO killed, or Kars planned on killing. Diavolo is tame compared to those guys.

      He DID want to stop. His mental issues didn't let him. I am pretty sure it's even from his alternate reality self who haves the same urges except the insanity part. Everytime he found another hand he would think that would be the last and he won't go thirsting for more but he gave in. I hated him the most but he was the most mentally fucked up of all the villains. Dio was sane, just was an asshole who wanted to be a God...literally living by his name. XD

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    • Kira DIDN'T want to stop. He had an unsatiable fetish. I don't ever recall him saying he wanted it to stop. Please show where it's stated in the anime/manga because either you are full of shit or I forgot.

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    • とどろき しょう と wrote:
      Zodazzle wrote:
      Also, Kira didn't "want" to stop. If he did, he would stop. His body had nothing to do with it. He followed his pleasures despite not having to, and he payed the price.

      Once again, Funny Valentine is the least. He never wanted to kill, he only had to because others got in the way. Those that did want the Saint's Corpse like Johnny and Hot Pants were doing it for selfish reasons, but Funny just wanted to be patriotic and strengthen America. Keep in mind he is the president, and was doing his job to make his country greater. Him being cruel to Lucy and killing the few workers is nothing compared to the possible hundreds that Pucci killed during Made in Heaven or in the prison. Nothing to the people Kira murdered, DIO killed, or Kars planned on killing. Diavolo is tame compared to those guys.

      He DID want to stop. His mental issues didn't let him. I am pretty sure it's even from his alternate reality self who haves the same urges except the insanity part. Everytime he found another hand he would think that would be the last and he won't go thirsting for more but he gave in. I hated him the most but he was the most mentally fucked up of all the villains. Dio was sane, just was an asshole who wanted to be a God...literally living by his name. XD

      Kira was never interested in stopping and never showed any remorse for any of his actions. I can understand where this misunderstanding comes from because after his transition into Kosaku he's trying desperately not to give into his urges but that's not because he "wanted to stop" it's because he didn't want to get caught by Jotaro and knew they'd be looking out for things like disappearances. 

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    • Kira only killed thots, he did nothing wrong./s

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    • Oh and actually, Cars's clan did attack him. He's right on that one, if nothing else.

      https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/292319033993330688/536696673867661348/unknown.png

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    • Least Evil: Funny Valentine

      Most Evil: Dio Brando (or) Diavalo

      Also, for no particular reason I thought I'd toss in my opinions on what is my personal favorite and least favorite villain.

      Least Favorite: Kars or Dio Brando. They're villains to be villains.

      Most Favorite: Funny Valentine or Yoshikage Kira. One is simply doing something for the greater good of America, another is trying justify his killings.

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    • Davidmalan007 wrote:
      Valentine wasn't going to really assault Lucy, he would inspire her to leave her camouflage. She disguised herself as his significant other all things considered. Also, Pucci was attempting to legitimize his reasons, however, he did some Brawling go latest chaptermass homicide. Take a gander at the most extreme security ward episode and what C-Moon did at Cape Canaveral. Pucci will pics execute individuals for a caring reason, yet slaughters such a large number of all the while. Interesting Valentine just murders such huge numbers of, and the general population executed by Love Train aren't his blame. In the event that Johnny, Lucy, and Gyro had not meddled, way fewer losses would be available.

      I don’t know what is. Also, those people killed by Love Train were definitely his fault. Yes, Gyro may have been the one to fire the shot, but Valentine put up the barrier with the full knowledge that innocents would die. That directly puts him at blame for their deaths. And it’s not like Valentine gave a crap about people’s lives, because he clearly didn’t.

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    • most to least evil: dio(is arguably the only villain who enjoys the evil he commits) kars (he is not "evil" in my opioion but he did commit genocide so...) kira (if he was at all torn up over his fetish he could ignore his urges) diavolo (hes really just about as bad as any mob boss... killing is normal for him) valentine (he may have "pure" intentions but he does the most heinous things id say out of all villains) and then last would be pucci (I feel that he is in the same boat as valentine but he overal wasnt as bad of a person, and many of his actions can be dismissed via dios grooming)

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    • Thotdio wrote:
      most to least evil: dio(is arguably the only villain who enjoys the evil he commits) kars (he is not "evil" in my opioion but he did commit genocide so...) kira the good manager and the perfect half mangazuki  (if he was at all torn up over his fetish he could ignore his urges) diavolo (hes really just about as bad as any mob boss... killing is normal for him) valentine (he may have "pure" intentions but he does the most heinous things id say out of all villains) and then last would be pucci (I feel that he is in the same boat as valentine but he overal wasnt as bad of a person, and many of his actions can be dismissed via dios grooming)

      Heaven allows people to see their fate. This allows people to see the consequences of their actions and to avoid unnecessary and harmful events. This essentially maximizes the productivity if the human race and limits evil to a great extent. That is the point of heaven.

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    • StormFiber wrote:
      Davidmalan007 wrote:
      Valentine wasn't going to really assault Lucy, he would inspire her to leave her camouflage. She disguised herself as his significant other all things considered. Also, Pucci was attempting to legitimize his reasons, however, he did some Brawling go latest chaptermass homicide. Take a gander at the most extreme security ward episode and what C-Moon did at Cape Canaveral. Pucci will pics execute individuals for a caring reason, yet slaughters such a large number of all the while. Interesting Valentine just murders such huge numbers of, and the general population executed by Love Train aren't his blame. In the event that Johnny, Lucy, and Gyro had not meddled, way fewer losses would be available.
      I don’t know what is. Also, those people killed by Love Train were definitely his fault. Yes, Gyro may have been the one to fire the shot, but Valentine put up the barrier with the full knowledge that innocents would die. That directly puts him at blame for their deaths. And it’s not like Valentine gave a crap about people’s lives, because he clearly didn’t.

      Obviously not. If he didn't give a crap, why would he warn Johnny "Don't strike me because of Love Train" (or something to that effect, I've forgotten the exact dialog.)

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    • Zodazzle wrote: How is this just me? You are contributing to this thread right now just as much as I am. There is nobody to blame anyway. This is a discussion thread, so expect arguing. 

      Shut the f**k up, all of you. What is the point of this thread? Does it have to do anything in particular? All I hear is just mere arguing about fictional villains that don’t exist.

      Personally, the most evil of them all is Cioccolata, he deserved that brutal beating to hell after all.

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    • If you are so pissed off about us arguing, then ignore this thread. You are complaining not only about the thread being arguing (which it's a discussion so it's going to have that), but also that we are arguing about fictional characters (which is the POINT of the thread).

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    • Zodazzle wrote:
      If you are so pissed off about us arguing, then ignore this thread. You are complaining not only about the thread being arguing (which it's a discussion so it's going to have that), but also that we are arguing about fictional characters (which is the POINT of the thread).

      idk man, thinking arguments are a natural part of all discussion? thats a pretty toxic way of thinking. you know you can disagree without turning it into a fight right? i doubt op meant for this to be a fight thread, its a thread for opinions not fact so theres literally nothing to be pissed about. you are like this in pretty much every thread you comment on, chill.

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    • Cioccolata is the most evilest main villain in the series. He murdered so many people, which is great. For him.

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    • Johndoe-m9 wrote: Cioccolata is the most evilest main villain in the series. He murdered so many people, which is great. For him.

      More of the minor villain then the main villain.

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    • 1. Cioccolata - He destroyed and killed shit

      2. Cioccolata - He tried to kill Mista

      3. Cioccolata - He disliked the boss

      4. Cioccolata - He did snuff films

      5. Cioccolata - Fugo could’ve killed him

      6. Cioccolata - He put the elderly out of their misery

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    • Johndoe-m9 wrote:
      1. Cioccolata - He destroyed and killed shit

      2. Cioccolata - He tried to kill Mista

      3. Cioccolata - He disliked the boss

      4. Cioccolata - He did snuff films

      5. Cioccolata - Fugo could’ve killed him

      6. Cioccolata - He put the elderly out of their misery

      >he destroyed and killed shit

      so did literally everyone else in the part 

      >he tried to kill Mista

      so did Sale/Prosciutto/Ghiaccio

      >he disliked the boss

      ...how is this bad?

      >fugo could've killed him

      more like who-go, haha gottem lmao

      but seriously, this isn't a flaw

      4 & 6 I can agree with, though

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    • Some points I’d like to add:

      1. Johndoe-m9 is almost certainly trolling about Ciaccolata

      2. The Pillarmen(Pillarpeople?) DID attack Kars first; whether his idea was bad or not, he was acting in self-defense for the most part. I doubt he had to kill EVERYONE he did, though.

      3. There is no evidence that Kars was king among the Pillarpeople. Wamuu refers to him As ‘Lord Kars’ because Kars raised him and likely demanded respect. When Kars is referee to as ‘leader of the Pillarmen’, most sources are referring to the Pillarmen as the 4-man group of villains from part 2, not the race as a whole. Nowhere in the manga or anime does it state Kars was leader of his whole race.

      4. Now, Kars’s whole plan for the future, I’m split down the middle for. On one hand, it was technically unnecessary for him to elevate his race with the Stone Mask, especially as it involved certain risks. He also seemed unnecessarily belligerent towards humans in general. On the other hand, I don’t remember it being stated that Kars wanted to kill all humans. I think he just wanted them to submit to him as ruler, which with an IQ of 400, IIRC, seems pretty reasonable to me. Also, the Pillarmen don’t need to feed once they use the perfected Stone Mask, with the Red Stone of Aja in it, so that wouldn’t have been a problem. So in conclusion to this point, while Kars did perform technically unnecessary actions that would likely lead to the killing of humans(which considering how similar they are to Pillarmen, seems unethical of him), that is very close to what humans do to plants and animals: unnecessarily using them to make our lives admittedly much more comfortable, but still unnecessarily.

      5. Lucy had it coming.

      6. None of us should be calling each other names. It makes all of us look bad, and certainly won’t make your opponent come around to your side.

      7. Kars is hot AF and I’d let him take over the world.

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    • A FANDOM user
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