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  • Ok i can't keep up with the votes but  you guys can keep on

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    • Jarrod0303
      Jarrod0303 removed this reply because:
      can you please remove
      22:34, November 12, 2018
      This reply has been removed
    • tusk act 4 can move in time stop

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    • WinchesterTheReal wrote:
      tusk act 4 can move in time stop

      we saw from his brief encounter vs diego that he can somewhat move in frozen time however,diego instantly dispelled his ability and fled in awe when "act 4" shook while trying to reach him and we never saw it since so we don't know for sure the extent of act 4's power in the frozen time realm but we can assume he can,for he even penetrated the absolute barrier of the president and valentine said that "he can penetrate any barrier ",maybe araki was hinting to time as well??

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    • Ability-wise, Tusk DWARFS Star Platinum. Timestop won't do Jotaro any favors, as mentioned above, and he'll instantly lose if Tusk so much as grazes him. However, I don't believe Tusk even WILL graze him.

      Firstly, Tusk's stats (even in ACT 4) are... Well, weak. Compared to Star Platinum, it's inferior in Speed and Precision, and only barely edges out in Range (because of the nail bullets). Additionally, Johnny is effectively an immobile, sitting duck who is BARELY able to walk with ACT 4, and needs to use his horse to even activate it.

      However, another factor to take into account is, simply put, Star Platinum catching bullets. As shown in the first Ratt fight, Star Platinum has a tendency to catch incoming projectiles with its bare fingers, and this backfires against it numerous times. It's possible that Jotaro might lose instantly because of that, as Star Platinum would be hit by the infinite rotation if it even touched an in-flight nail bullet, even in stopped time.

      Overall, I think there's an equal number of downsides and upsides to each fighter, and the winner would be decided by who does what first. If Johnny fires a nail bullet, Jotaro loses. However, if Johnny instead attacks directly with ACT 4, Star Platinum would probably beat it into the ground.

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    • no, i think tusk act 4 could stand up to star platinum in a fistfight. also, contact would cause jotaro to be affected by the super spin, easily sealing the deal.

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    • Act 4 standing up to Star Platinum in a fistfight? Not possible. Star Platinum is one of the strongest stands in a fistfight. Tusk would be immediately beaten. Also, I don't recall the manga stating that any contact with Act 4 activates the Super Spin.

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    • Zodazzle wrote:
      Act 4 standing up to Star Platinum in a fistfight? Not possible. Star Platinum is one of the strongest stands in a fistfight. Tusk would be immediately beaten. Also, I don't recall the manga stating that any contact with Act 4 activates the Super Spin.

      What Zodazzle said. I think ACT 4 would have to land a hit on Star Platinum to initiate the Super Spin, but that would be impossible if it's just getting pummeled into the dirt repeatedly.

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    • Zodazzle wrote:
      Act 4 standing up to Star Platinum in a fistfight? Not possible. Star Platinum is one of the strongest stands in a fistfight. Tusk would be immediately beaten. Also, I don't recall the manga stating that any contact with Act 4 activates the Super Spin.

      i say it could. tusk act 4 would only need to make one punch with star platinum before jotaro and his stand were rendered useless because of super spin. plus, if we assume they are both going in blind to each others abilities, jotaro would have no idea about how spin or tusk worked, as the original world uses hamon. and during alt uni diego, johnny quickly deduced diego could stop time. also, the only reason johnny lost to diego is because diego knew all of johnnys abilities and weaknesses from valentine,and he came to johnnys universe with:

      1: a gallon of gasoline

      2: like three matchboxes

      3: more knives than dio 

      4: thin, sharp metal wirs that could slice a man in half on a horse

      taking that into account, johnny would have won easily if alt uni diego hadnt bullshitted his way through and had stuck to timestop and knives like dio. the world and THE WORLD are almost identical in abilities and stats, and again, johnny could easily deduce the worlds ability of timestop, while jotaro wouldnt even be able to conceptualize spin or know what it does, including act 4s abilities.

      also, i say act 4 could match star platinum in a fistfight. while act 4 is SLIGHTLY slower than star platinum, its durability is a solid match for star platinum's. also, with an A in range, johnny could attack with star platinum-level stats, and jotaro wouldnt expect the bullets to still move in time stop, meaning it would be a similar situation to when dio stopped time and star platinum kept going and crushed in dio's skull. also, INFINITE SPIN. one punch would render jotaro useless. to be honest, the only jojo that could soundly beat johnny is giorno with GER. 

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    • also, contact does activate super spin. both from when johnny defeated funny, and by this paragraph in the wiki.



      If ACT4 touches someone, it imbues the target with an infinite spinning motion. Not only does part of the body separate to spin, everything down to individual cells spin on themselves, greatly distorting the shape of the victim. Eventually the targets are disintegrated by the rotation and according to Diego, sent to another dimension.[18] The Spin goes on forever and never leaves the person or their Stand, forcing them to return to the place where they were hit or its equivalent in each parallel dimension, thus Funny Valentine was not able to escape it despite switching dimensions and/or bodies, always returning to the underground location in which he was hit. If someone uses a tool, like a carriage, to get away from the location, the Spin will imbue itself into the tool and destroy it, forcing the target back into their location. The rotation won't end unless Johnny shoots the target with a similar rotation that is spinning in the opposite direction, resulting in the two cancelling each other out.[14][19][20]

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    • I read that paragraph, and it only says if Tusk Act 4 makes the contact. If so, then the simplest thing Star Platinum would have to do is stop time and beat up Johnny. Even if Jotaro had been affected, all Jotaro has to do is stop time. Infinity is infinite, but stop time stops EVERYTHING in it's radius. Infinity will just stop and resume afterwards. Giving enough time to beat up Johnny.

      Also, Star Platinum was able to break through High Priestess' diamond-hard teeth, so you can bet that Tusk Act 4 will be weak to Star Platinum's blows no matter it's durability. And slightly slower is a undertaking; Star Platinum moves faster than light and is by far shown to be faster than Tusk.

      And besides, if we are making this a realistic situation, then Johnny wouldn't even have Act 4 activated.

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    • And another note, infinity didn't help Johnny move throughout an entire period of time being stopped, so we can rule out that the Infinite Spin is still running in stop time.

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    • Jotaro is very much a head-first fighter. Regardless of his opponent's abilities, he'll charge right in and aim for the quickest subdual, even if that 'quickest subdual' is just a full minute of him beating the ever-living shit out of them. The thing is that Johnny didn't REALIZE Diego was stopping time until halfway through the fight, and was distracted by how it seemed like he was just teleporting around. However, that was because Diego was cautious, if not too cautious. Had he stopped time the moment Johnny got in range and just pummeled him to death directly instead of throwing knives, Johnny would be quickly outmatched because he was relying on ACT 2 instead of ACT 4. This is another point to my argument--Johnny doesn't open with ACT 4, ever. While Jotaro is comfortable with just stopping time and bludgeoning his enemy, Johnny has always been shown to rely on ACT 2 the most out of all four ACTs. He won't have time to realize that ACT 4 can move in frozen time and even try to activate it before Star Platinum's knuckles are embedded two inches deep in his skull. I like Johnny, but he doesn't have shit on Jotaro, even with ACT 4.

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    • but again, both star platinum and tusk act 4 operate around the same speed, and with a range of A, he could fire from more than 20 horse lengths, judging from johnny vs diego alt. uni. and also, ONE HIT would be needed. two stands, one with an A in range, one with C in range, get in a fistfight. no matter what, if jotaro attacks, hes fucked because johnny needs ONE FUCKING PUNCH to render jotaro useless. and about johnny never opening with tusk act 4, he did it twice. to be fair, it wasnt during major fights, but he opened with act 4. he did it to get gyro's corpse onto the boat, and again during his flashback in jojolion. and also, about jotaro charging in, he is actually very reserved quite a lot of the time. he only charged dio because he MURDERED HIS GRANDFATHER AND DISGRACED HIS DEAD CORPSE, and during the start of the steely dan arc, he pulled a quick jab as a warning shot. he didnt beat the shit out of steely until he was positive his stand ability was rendered null. during the ratt arc, jotaro prepared josuke and carefully studied their abilities instead of telling josuke to charge in without knowing their abilities. during the akira arc, he correctly deduced akira would use an rc plane, and told josuke. during the first few episodes when he fought avdol, he only attacked in self defence, didnt follow through with his steel bars when avdol turned his back to jotaro, and only stayed because he didnt want to hurt any more people. during the final battle vs kira, he didnt attack instantly because he knew how far he could go with timestop and remained reserved. he almost always attacks in SELF DEFENCE. meanwhile johnny attacks pretty quickly when he sees an enemy. and also, when he sees that jotaro has an identical ability to alt. uni. diego, he wilol know to activate act 4

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    • Tusk act 5 wrote:
      but again, both star platinum and tusk act 4 operate around the same speed, and with a range of A, he could fire from more than 20 horse lengths, judging from johnny vs diego alt. uni. and also, ONE HIT would be needed. two stands, one with an A in range, one with C in range, get in a fistfight. no matter what, if jotaro attacks, hes fucked because johnny needs ONE FUCKING PUNCH to render jotaro useless. and about johnny never opening with tusk act 4, he did it twice. to be fair, it wasnt during major fights, but he opened with act 4. he did it to get gyro's corpse onto the boat, and again during his flashback in jojolion. and also, about jotaro charging in, he is actually very reserved quite a lot of the time. he only charged dio because he MURDERED HIS GRANDFATHER AND DISGRACED HIS DEAD CORPSE, and during the start of the steely dan arc, he pulled a quick jab as a warning shot. he didnt beat the shit out of steely until he was positive his stand ability was rendered null. during the ratt arc, jotaro prepared josuke and carefully studied their abilities instead of telling josuke to charge in without knowing their abilities. during the akira arc, he correctly deduced akira would use an rc plane, and told josuke. during the first few episodes when he fought avdol, he only attacked in self defence, didnt follow through with his steel bars when avdol turned his back to jotaro, and only stayed because he didnt want to hurt any more people. during the final battle vs kira, he didnt attack instantly because he knew how far he could go with timestop and remained reserved. he almost always attacks in SELF DEFENCE. meanwhile johnny attacks pretty quickly when he sees an enemy. and also, when he sees that jotaro has an identical ability to alt. uni. diego, he wilol know to activate act 4

      Your two examples on Johnny 'opening with ACT 4' are rendered completely null by what you yourself said. They were used outside of combat for purposes that REQUIRED the Infinite Rotation.

      I also don't think you understand the fact that ACT 4 WON'T be able to land a punch on Star Platinum. The moment it even gets in range, the first to throw and land a punch will be Star Platinum, and that'll pretty much seal the rest of the fight in Jotaro's favor since ACT 4 will be forced into the defensive and become unable to strike Star Platinum with the Infinite Rotation.

      In the Ratt arc, Bug-Eaten was out of his range. It's as simple as that. He couldn't rush in head-first without getting shot immediately. And I'm going to correct you by stating that he DID know Bug-Eaten's ability. Y'know, because he was already hit by it once before. Here's a list of all of Jotaro's P3 fights in which he immediately (or almost immediately) went for direct attacks:

      - Jotaro vs. Kakyoin

      - Jotaro vs. Captain Tennille

      - Jotaro vs. Forever

      - Jotaro vs. Rubber Soul

      - Jotaro vs. Khan

      - Jotaro vs. DIO

      This isn't counting any of his P4 fights, which mainly just includes his first fight against Kira. As you can see, Jotaro has primarily resorted to attacking his opponent head-first in the majority of his fights, excluding the ones where he COULDN'T attack the enemy, or he couldn't see them whatsoever.

      As far as Jotaro is concerned, timestop is the one opportunity he has to instantly nail the enemy where they stand. He won't use it until he's completely sure he'll actually be able to attack the enemy at the closest range possible. That's also why he didn't use timestop on Kosaku-Kira from the start. Kira was out of his range, so using timestop would be a waste. Jotaro won't wait for his enemy to make the first move, but he will if he knows that attacking immediately would put him at a disadvantage or only escalate the situation. That's why Johnny won't know to activate ACT 4 before it's too late, as by the time Jotaro even uses timestop, he'll be completely certain that he can subdue Johnny. He won't teleport around or throw knives like Diego did--the very moment time is frozen, Jotaro will have already won.

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    • Infant's Isopod wrote:
      Tusk act 5 wrote:
      but again, both star platinum and tusk act 4 operate around the same speed, and with a range of A, he could fire from more than 20 horse lengths, judging from johnny vs diego alt. uni. and also, ONE HIT would be needed. two stands, one with an A in range, one with C in range, get in a fistfight. no matter what, if jotaro attacks, hes fucked because johnny needs ONE FUCKING PUNCH to render jotaro useless. and about johnny never opening with tusk act 4, he did it twice. to be fair, it wasnt during major fights, but he opened with act 4. he did it to get gyro's corpse onto the boat, and again during his flashback in jojolion. and also, about jotaro charging in, he is actually very reserved quite a lot of the time. he only charged dio because he MURDERED HIS GRANDFATHER AND DISGRACED HIS DEAD CORPSE, and during the start of the steely dan arc, he pulled a quick jab as a warning shot. he didnt beat the shit out of steely until he was positive his stand ability was rendered null. during the ratt arc, jotaro prepared josuke and carefully studied their abilities instead of telling josuke to charge in without knowing their abilities. during the akira arc, he correctly deduced akira would use an rc plane, and told josuke. during the first few episodes when he fought avdol, he only attacked in self defence, didnt follow through with his steel bars when avdol turned his back to jotaro, and only stayed because he didnt want to hurt any more people. during the final battle vs kira, he didnt attack instantly because he knew how far he could go with timestop and remained reserved. he almost always attacks in SELF DEFENCE. meanwhile johnny attacks pretty quickly when he sees an enemy. and also, when he sees that jotaro has an identical ability to alt. uni. diego, he wilol know to activate act 4
      Your two examples on Johnny 'opening with ACT 4' are rendered completely null by what you yourself said. They were used outside of combat for purposes that REQUIRED the Infinite Rotation.

      I also don't think you understand the fact that ACT 4 WON'T be able to land a punch on Star Platinum. The moment it even gets in range, the first to throw and land a punch will be Star Platinum, and that'll pretty much seal the rest of the fight in Jotaro's favor since ACT 4 will be forced into the defensive and become unable to strike Star Platinum with the Infinite Rotation.

      In the Ratt arc, Bug-Eaten was out of his range. It's as simple as that. He couldn't rush in head-first without getting shot immediately. And I'm going to correct you by stating that he DID know Bug-Eaten's ability. Y'know, because he was already hit by it once before. Here's a list of all of Jotaro's P3 fights in which he immediately (or almost immediately) went for direct attacks:

      - Jotaro vs. Kakyoin

      - Jotaro vs. Captain Tennille

      - Jotaro vs. Forever

      - Jotaro vs. Rubber Soul

      - Jotaro vs. Khan

      - Jotaro vs. DIO

      This isn't counting any of his P4 fights, which mainly just includes his first fight against Kira. As you can see, Jotaro has primarily resorted to attacking his opponent head-first in the majority of his fights, excluding the ones where he COULDN'T attack the enemy, or he couldn't see them whatsoever.

      As far as Jotaro is concerned, timestop is the one opportunity he has to instantly nail the enemy where they stand. He won't use it until he's completely sure he'll actually be able to attack the enemy at the closest range possible. That's also why he didn't use timestop on Kosaku-Kira from the start. Kira was out of his range, so using timestop would be a waste. Jotaro won't wait for his enemy to make the first move, but he will if he knows that attacking immediately would put him at a disadvantage or only escalate the situation. That's why Johnny won't know to activate ACT 4 before it's too late, as by the time Jotaro even uses timestop, he'll be completely certain that he can subdue Johnny. He won't teleport around or throw knives like Diego did--the very moment time is frozen, Jotaro will have already won.

      keep in mind, a lot of those points are kinda rendered null.

      kakyoin: he desecrated jotaro's sense of honor, and reacted to defend the nurse.

      tenielle: jotaro knew what the stand was capable of from the shark, and was certain dark blue moon wasnt very strong out of water.

      forever: he was fighting in self-defence. also, if i remember correctly, jotaro saw the ape before and did nothing. he only reacted because his stand was actively trying to kill him and was about to RAPE A LITTLE GIRL.

      rubber: he had seen the ability and was certain rubber was going to be dangerous if LEFT ALONE TO GATHER MORE SUSTENANCE. he had to attack to prevent certain defeat. and he also ran away to think of a STRATEGY.

      khan: he was about to slit polnareffs fucking throat

      dio: did you not read what i said

      and also, if jotaro used ora ora during timestop, he would basically recreate the situation where johnny could originally activate act 4. and ANOTHER thing, johnny would either open with act 3 or act 4. and actually, johnny only had ONE fight where he had he option to open with act 4. that doesnt mean he never opens with act 4. also, johnny is very agressive, as seen when diego only lived because gyro stopped him. and jotaro pulls his punches. how else would he keep steely dan right in front of him during the beatdown and then launch him during the final punch

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    • and also, a B in speed is nothing to scoff at. it is incredibly fast, and star platinum usually responds to a punch by PUNCHING BACK. with an A in durability, it can land at least one fucking punch on the guy. also, what evidence do you have to suggest that star platinum isnt willing to take a punch to be able to land an oraora? and judging by these panels from the manga, tusk can defenitily land SOME punches with an A in durablility. count the visible fists. 9 for tusk act 4, and 8 for star platinum. very similar speeds. also, tusk is going with one fist, and star platinum is going with both, proving, if anything, that tusk is fairly FASTER than star platinum.

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    • ...What? Are you seriously comparing speeds by their visible punches in the manga (that are also over a decade apart) rather than their actual stats? Star Platinum has an A, and Tusk Act 4 has a B. Literally look at the stats and there you go. Besides, Star Platinum has been said to exceed the speed of light, and Tusk Act 4 can't apply to that. So it's definite that Star Platinum is faster. Stop digging for evidence of speed in the manga, which keep in mind aren't in motion.

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    • Zodazzle wrote:
      ...What? Are you seriously comparing speeds by their visible punches in the manga (that are also over a decade apart) rather than their actual stats? Star Platinum has an A, and Tusk Act 4 has a B. Literally look at the stats and there you go. Besides, Star Platinum has been said to exceed the speed of light, and Tusk Act 4 can't apply to that. So it's definite that Star Platinum is faster. Stop digging for evidence of speed in the manga, which keep in mind aren't in motion.

      keep in mind stand stats are infamously confusing and make no sense. and also, i dare you to bring up as many VALID points as i have during this argument. disproving one point doesnt mean the rest of my evidence is faulty. and again, ONE FUCKING HIT. thats all it takes. i dont know how many times it needs to be said, but ONE FUCKING HIT IS ALL IT TAKES TO WIN. i dont even need any more evidence than that, but the valid points ive brought up simply reinforce my argument. and again, if the stats are supposedly the deciding factor, then AN A IN DURBILITY should be able to let tusk tank one or two hits before HE RENDERS JOTARO USELESS WITH ONE FUCKING HIT.to be fair, youve brought up some good points. but that one peice of evidence is the strongest brought up in this argument, and while you are focusing on disproving one or two points for every five i bring up, i actually have concrete evidence to back up my point. name one reason why jotaro wouldnt try and tank one or two hits to land an ora rush.

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    • Tusk act 5 wrote:
      Zodazzle wrote:
      ...What? Are you seriously comparing speeds by their visible punches in the manga (that are also over a decade apart) rather than their actual stats? Star Platinum has an A, and Tusk Act 4 has a B. Literally look at the stats and there you go. Besides, Star Platinum has been said to exceed the speed of light, and Tusk Act 4 can't apply to that. So it's definite that Star Platinum is faster. Stop digging for evidence of speed in the manga, which keep in mind aren't in motion.
      keep in mind stand stats are infamously confusing and make no sense. and also, i dare you to bring up as many VALID points as i have during this argument. disproving one point doesnt mean the rest of my evidence is faulty. and again, ONE FUCKING HIT. thats all it takes. i dont know how many times it needs to be said, but ONE FUCKING HIT IS ALL IT TAKES TO WIN. i dont even need any more evidence than that, but the valid points ive brought up simply reinforce my argument. and again, if the stats are supposedly the deciding factor, then AN A IN DURBILITY should be able to let tusk tank one or two hits before HE RENDERS JOTARO USELESS WITH ONE FUCKING HIT.to be fair, youve brought up some good points. but that one peice of evidence is the strongest brought up in this argument, and while you are focusing on disproving one or two points for every five i bring up, i actually have concrete evidence to back up my point. name one reason why jotaro wouldnt try and tank one or two hits to land an ora rush.

      >Stand stats infamously confusing

      But they're not...? The only offender that I can think of would be Destructive Power, but that only represents physical strenght.

      >One hit is all it takes to win

      Tusk still has to land that hit. There's also the fact that Johnny himself cannot move in stopped time, meaning SP is gonna fuck him up.

      >A in durability

      The World had an A in durability too, and Star Platinum fucked it up on multiple occasions. I doubt Tusk is gonna fare much better.

      >One reason why Jotaro wouldn't tank one or two hits to do an ora rush

      He could, but that doesn't mean he should. Also, if he immediately opens with time-stop, he won't even need to take that Tusk hit.

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    • S.Cond Bomb wrote:
      Tusk act 5 wrote:
      Zodazzle wrote:
      ...What? Are you seriously comparing speeds by their visible punches in the manga (that are also over a decade apart) rather than their actual stats? Star Platinum has an A, and Tusk Act 4 has a B. Literally look at the stats and there you go. Besides, Star Platinum has been said to exceed the speed of light, and Tusk Act 4 can't apply to that. So it's definite that Star Platinum is faster. Stop digging for evidence of speed in the manga, which keep in mind aren't in motion.
      keep in mind stand stats are infamously confusing and make no sense. and also, i dare you to bring up as many VALID points as i have during this argument. disproving one point doesnt mean the rest of my evidence is faulty. and again, ONE FUCKING HIT. thats all it takes. i dont know how many times it needs to be said, but ONE FUCKING HIT IS ALL IT TAKES TO WIN. i dont even need any more evidence than that, but the valid points ive brought up simply reinforce my argument. and again, if the stats are supposedly the deciding factor, then AN A IN DURBILITY should be able to let tusk tank one or two hits before HE RENDERS JOTARO USELESS WITH ONE FUCKING HIT.to be fair, youve brought up some good points. but that one peice of evidence is the strongest brought up in this argument, and while you are focusing on disproving one or two points for every five i bring up, i actually have concrete evidence to back up my point. name one reason why jotaro wouldnt try and tank one or two hits to land an ora rush.
      >Stand stats infamously confusing

      But they're not...? The only offender that I can think of would be Destructive Power, but that only represents physical strenght.

      >One hit is all it takes to win

      Tusk still has to land that hit. There's also the fact that Johnny himself cannot move in stopped time, meaning SP is gonna fuck him up.

      >A in durability

      The World had an A in durability too, and Star Platinum fucked it up on multiple occasions. I doubt Tusk is gonna fare much better.

      >One reason why Jotaro wouldn't tank one or two hits to do an ora rush

      He could, but that doesn't mean he should. Also, if he immediately opens with time-stop, he won't even need to take that Tusk hit.

      1: fair, i suppose. but there is no set number for each stat. i mean, star platinum, hanged man, and silver chariot all have an A in speed, but have different speeds. and weather report (the stand) has a B in speed, and it can literally summon the fastest winds ever recorded. compare that wind speed vs highway star's B in speed, topping at 60 km/hour

      2: yeah, but tusk will land a hit if jotaro opens with an ora ora. and again, tusk can move in timestop, which will definitely catch jotaro off-guard

      3: yeah, but that took about like 4 episodes for the world to get beaten, and hits were landed on both sides. and tusk is the only one with super spin punches

      4: its his go-to move, and tusk and the bullets can move in timestop. and jotaro will often react to projectiles by catching them, aibeit activating super spin

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    • Tusk act 5 wrote:
      S.Cond Bomb wrote:
      Tusk act 5 wrote:
      Zodazzle wrote:
      ...What? Are you seriously comparing speeds by their visible punches in the manga (that are also over a decade apart) rather than their actual stats? Star Platinum has an A, and Tusk Act 4 has a B. Literally look at the stats and there you go. Besides, Star Platinum has been said to exceed the speed of light, and Tusk Act 4 can't apply to that. So it's definite that Star Platinum is faster. Stop digging for evidence of speed in the manga, which keep in mind aren't in motion.
      keep in mind stand stats are infamously confusing and make no sense. and also, i dare you to bring up as many VALID points as i have during this argument. disproving one point doesnt mean the rest of my evidence is faulty. and again, ONE FUCKING HIT. thats all it takes. i dont know how many times it needs to be said, but ONE FUCKING HIT IS ALL IT TAKES TO WIN. i dont even need any more evidence than that, but the valid points ive brought up simply reinforce my argument. and again, if the stats are supposedly the deciding factor, then AN A IN DURBILITY should be able to let tusk tank one or two hits before HE RENDERS JOTARO USELESS WITH ONE FUCKING HIT.to be fair, youve brought up some good points. but that one peice of evidence is the strongest brought up in this argument, and while you are focusing on disproving one or two points for every five i bring up, i actually have concrete evidence to back up my point. name one reason why jotaro wouldnt try and tank one or two hits to land an ora rush.
      >Stand stats infamously confusing

      But they're not...? The only offender that I can think of would be Destructive Power, but that only represents physical strenght.

      >One hit is all it takes to win

      Tusk still has to land that hit. There's also the fact that Johnny himself cannot move in stopped time, meaning SP is gonna fuck him up.

      >A in durability

      The World had an A in durability too, and Star Platinum fucked it up on multiple occasions. I doubt Tusk is gonna fare much better.

      >One reason why Jotaro wouldn't tank one or two hits to do an ora rush

      He could, but that doesn't mean he should. Also, if he immediately opens with time-stop, he won't even need to take that Tusk hit.

      1: fair, i suppose. but there is no set number for each stat. i mean, star platinum, hanged man, and silver chariot all have an A in speed, but have different speeds. and weather report (the stand) has a B in speed, and it can literally summon the fastest winds ever recorded. compare that wind speed vs highway star's B in speed, topping at 60 km/hour

      2: yeah, but tusk will land a hit if jotaro opens with an ora ora. and again, tusk can move in timestop, which will definitely catch jotaro off-guard

      3: yeah, but that took about like 4 episodes for the world to get beaten, and hits were landed on both sides. and tusk is the only one with super spin punches

      4: its his go-to move, and tusk and the bullets can move in timestop. and jotaro will often react to projectiles by catching them, aibeit activating super spin

      Jesus christ, this argument is going on way too long and I'm not in the mood to write another paragraph, so...



      You can't land a hit if you're being repeatedly punched by something that is easily capable of shattering diamonds.

      Tusk can't hit Star Platinum if it's being beaten to death the moment it enters its range. There's literally no getting past that. Star Platinum was able to punch in several large holes in The World, another A-Durability Stand. There is no reason Tusk, a Stand much slower and actually less responsive (i.e it doesn't follow Johnny's commands as precisely as Star Platinum does, since it mainly just indiscriminately kills things, even Johnny himself if he gets caught in the crossfire) than both Star Platinum AND The World, and I guarantee you Star Platinum won't try to go for a clash of barrages once it realizes Tusk is far slower than it (which is literally the moment Tusk tries to throw a punch) and will just bludgeon Tusk without effort.

      also shit i wrote a paragrpah anyway

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    • Infant's Isopod wrote:
      Tusk act 5 wrote:
      S.Cond Bomb wrote:
      Tusk act 5 wrote:
      Zodazzle wrote:
      ...What? Are you seriously comparing speeds by their visible punches in the manga (that are also over a decade apart) rather than their actual stats? Star Platinum has an A, and Tusk Act 4 has a B. Literally look at the stats and there you go. Besides, Star Platinum has been said to exceed the speed of light, and Tusk Act 4 can't apply to that. So it's definite that Star Platinum is faster. Stop digging for evidence of speed in the manga, which keep in mind aren't in motion.
      keep in mind stand stats are infamously confusing and make no sense. and also, i dare you to bring up as many VALID points as i have during this argument. disproving one point doesnt mean the rest of my evidence is faulty. and again, ONE FUCKING HIT. thats all it takes. i dont know how many times it needs to be said, but ONE FUCKING HIT IS ALL IT TAKES TO WIN. i dont even need any more evidence than that, but the valid points ive brought up simply reinforce my argument. and again, if the stats are supposedly the deciding factor, then AN A IN DURBILITY should be able to let tusk tank one or two hits before HE RENDERS JOTARO USELESS WITH ONE FUCKING HIT.to be fair, youve brought up some good points. but that one peice of evidence is the strongest brought up in this argument, and while you are focusing on disproving one or two points for every five i bring up, i actually have concrete evidence to back up my point. name one reason why jotaro wouldnt try and tank one or two hits to land an ora rush.
      >Stand stats infamously confusing

      But they're not...? The only offender that I can think of would be Destructive Power, but that only represents physical strenght.

      >One hit is all it takes to win

      Tusk still has to land that hit. There's also the fact that Johnny himself cannot move in stopped time, meaning SP is gonna fuck him up.

      >A in durability

      The World had an A in durability too, and Star Platinum fucked it up on multiple occasions. I doubt Tusk is gonna fare much better.

      >One reason why Jotaro wouldn't tank one or two hits to do an ora rush

      He could, but that doesn't mean he should. Also, if he immediately opens with time-stop, he won't even need to take that Tusk hit.

      1: fair, i suppose. but there is no set number for each stat. i mean, star platinum, hanged man, and silver chariot all have an A in speed, but have different speeds. and weather report (the stand) has a B in speed, and it can literally summon the fastest winds ever recorded. compare that wind speed vs highway star's B in speed, topping at 60 km/hour

      2: yeah, but tusk will land a hit if jotaro opens with an ora ora. and again, tusk can move in timestop, which will definitely catch jotaro off-guard

      3: yeah, but that took about like 4 episodes for the world to get beaten, and hits were landed on both sides. and tusk is the only one with super spin punches

      4: its his go-to move, and tusk and the bullets can move in timestop. and jotaro will often react to projectiles by catching them, aibeit activating super spin

      Jesus christ, this argument is going on way too long and I'm not in the mood to write another paragraph, so...



      You can't land a hit if you're being repeatedly punched by something that is easily capable of shattering diamonds.

      Tusk can't hit Star Platinum if it's being beaten to death the moment it enters its range. There's literally no getting past that. Star Platinum was able to punch in several large holes in The World, another A-Durability Stand. There is no reason Tusk, a Stand much slower and actually less responsive (i.e it doesn't follow Johnny's commands as precisely as Star Platinum does, since it mainly just indiscriminately kills things, even Johnny himself if he gets caught in the crossfire) than both Star Platinum AND The World, and I guarantee you Star Platinum won't try to go for a clash of barrages once it realizes Tusk is far slower than it (which is literally the moment Tusk tries to throw a punch) and will just bludgeon Tusk without effort.

      also shit i wrote a paragrpah anyway

      i kinda get it. star platinum can break diamonds. BUT. 

      1: again, it took a lot of punches to beat the world. the world and tusk act 4 both have an A in durability

      2: all you need is contact. not just with his fists, it can be the bullet, tusks fist, tusks armour, anything tusk

        Loading editor
    • Tusk act 5 wrote:
      Infant's Isopod wrote:
      Tusk act 5 wrote:
      S.Cond Bomb wrote:
      Tusk act 5 wrote:
      Zodazzle wrote:
      ...What? Are you seriously comparing speeds by their visible punches in the manga (that are also over a decade apart) rather than their actual stats? Star Platinum has an A, and Tusk Act 4 has a B. Literally look at the stats and there you go. Besides, Star Platinum has been said to exceed the speed of light, and Tusk Act 4 can't apply to that. So it's definite that Star Platinum is faster. Stop digging for evidence of speed in the manga, which keep in mind aren't in motion.
      keep in mind stand stats are infamously confusing and make no sense. and also, i dare you to bring up as many VALID points as i have during this argument. disproving one point doesnt mean the rest of my evidence is faulty. and again, ONE FUCKING HIT. thats all it takes. i dont know how many times it needs to be said, but ONE FUCKING HIT IS ALL IT TAKES TO WIN. i dont even need any more evidence than that, but the valid points ive brought up simply reinforce my argument. and again, if the stats are supposedly the deciding factor, then AN A IN DURBILITY should be able to let tusk tank one or two hits before HE RENDERS JOTARO USELESS WITH ONE FUCKING HIT.to be fair, youve brought up some good points. but that one peice of evidence is the strongest brought up in this argument, and while you are focusing on disproving one or two points for every five i bring up, i actually have concrete evidence to back up my point. name one reason why jotaro wouldnt try and tank one or two hits to land an ora rush.
      >Stand stats infamously confusing

      But they're not...? The only offender that I can think of would be Destructive Power, but that only represents physical strenght.

      >One hit is all it takes to win

      Tusk still has to land that hit. There's also the fact that Johnny himself cannot move in stopped time, meaning SP is gonna fuck him up.

      >A in durability

      The World had an A in durability too, and Star Platinum fucked it up on multiple occasions. I doubt Tusk is gonna fare much better.

      >One reason why Jotaro wouldn't tank one or two hits to do an ora rush

      He could, but that doesn't mean he should. Also, if he immediately opens with time-stop, he won't even need to take that Tusk hit.

      1: fair, i suppose. but there is no set number for each stat. i mean, star platinum, hanged man, and silver chariot all have an A in speed, but have different speeds. and weather report (the stand) has a B in speed, and it can literally summon the fastest winds ever recorded. compare that wind speed vs highway star's B in speed, topping at 60 km/hour

      2: yeah, but tusk will land a hit if jotaro opens with an ora ora. and again, tusk can move in timestop, which will definitely catch jotaro off-guard

      3: yeah, but that took about like 4 episodes for the world to get beaten, and hits were landed on both sides. and tusk is the only one with super spin punches

      4: its his go-to move, and tusk and the bullets can move in timestop. and jotaro will often react to projectiles by catching them, aibeit activating super spin

      Jesus christ, this argument is going on way too long and I'm not in the mood to write another paragraph, so...


      You can't land a hit if you're being repeatedly punched by something that is easily capable of shattering diamonds.

      Tusk can't hit Star Platinum if it's being beaten to death the moment it enters its range. There's literally no getting past that. Star Platinum was able to punch in several large holes in The World, another A-Durability Stand. There is no reason Tusk, a Stand much slower and actually less responsive (i.e it doesn't follow Johnny's commands as precisely as Star Platinum does, since it mainly just indiscriminately kills things, even Johnny himself if he gets caught in the crossfire) than both Star Platinum AND The World, and I guarantee you Star Platinum won't try to go for a clash of barrages once it realizes Tusk is far slower than it (which is literally the moment Tusk tries to throw a punch) and will just bludgeon Tusk without effort.

      also shit i wrote a paragrpah anyway

      i kinda get it. star platinum can break diamonds. BUT. 

      1: again, it took a lot of punches to beat the world. the world and tusk act 4 both have an A in durability

      2: all you need is contact. not just with his fists, it can be the bullet, tusks fist, tusks armour, anything tusk

      also, tusk is pretty fucking fast. name one reason tusk is like a fucking snail compared to other punch ghosts like star platinum.

      and also, why WOULDNT star platium go for an oraora if tusk is slower? jotaro knows that star platinum is gonna land more hits in. and also, johnny wont be anywhere near tusk, because once jotaro is in range of tusk, but not vice versa, he will fire a bullet around 25 horse lengths away, being nowhere near his own stand.

        Loading editor
    • bECAUTusk act 5 wrote:
      Tusk act 5 wrote:
      Infant's Isopod wrote:
      Tusk act 5 wrote:
      S.Cond Bomb wrote:
      Tusk act 5 wrote:
      Zodazzle wrote:
      ...What? Are you seriously comparing speeds by their visible punches in the manga (that are also over a decade apart) rather than their actual stats? Star Platinum has an A, and Tusk Act 4 has a B. Literally look at the stats and there you go. Besides, Star Platinum has been said to exceed the speed of light, and Tusk Act 4 can't apply to that. So it's definite that Star Platinum is faster. Stop digging for evidence of speed in the manga, which keep in mind aren't in motion.
      keep in mind stand stats are infamously confusing and make no sense. and also, i dare you to bring up as many VALID points as i have during this argument. disproving one point doesnt mean the rest of my evidence is faulty. and again, ONE FUCKING HIT. thats all it takes. i dont know how many times it needs to be said, but ONE FUCKING HIT IS ALL IT TAKES TO WIN. i dont even need any more evidence than that, but the valid points ive brought up simply reinforce my argument. and again, if the stats are supposedly the deciding factor, then AN A IN DURBILITY should be able to let tusk tank one or two hits before HE RENDERS JOTARO USELESS WITH ONE FUCKING HIT.to be fair, youve brought up some good points. but that one peice of evidence is the strongest brought up in this argument, and while you are focusing on disproving one or two points for every five i bring up, i actually have concrete evidence to back up my point. name one reason why jotaro wouldnt try and tank one or two hits to land an ora rush.
      >Stand stats infamously confusing

      But they're not...? The only offender that I can think of would be Destructive Power, but that only represents physical strenght.

      >One hit is all it takes to win

      Tusk still has to land that hit. There's also the fact that Johnny himself cannot move in stopped time, meaning SP is gonna fuck him up.

      >A in durability

      The World had an A in durability too, and Star Platinum fucked it up on multiple occasions. I doubt Tusk is gonna fare much better.

      >One reason why Jotaro wouldn't tank one or two hits to do an ora rush

      He could, but that doesn't mean he should. Also, if he immediately opens with time-stop, he won't even need to take that Tusk hit.

      1: fair, i suppose. but there is no set number for each stat. i mean, star platinum, hanged man, and silver chariot all have an A in speed, but have different speeds. and weather report (the stand) has a B in speed, and it can literally summon the fastest winds ever recorded. compare that wind speed vs highway star's B in speed, topping at 60 km/hour

      2: yeah, but tusk will land a hit if jotaro opens with an ora ora. and again, tusk can move in timestop, which will definitely catch jotaro off-guard

      3: yeah, but that took about like 4 episodes for the world to get beaten, and hits were landed on both sides. and tusk is the only one with super spin punches

      4: its his go-to move, and tusk and the bullets can move in timestop. and jotaro will often react to projectiles by catching them, aibeit activating super spin

      Jesus christ, this argument is going on way too long and I'm not in the mood to write another paragraph, so...


      You can't land a hit if you're being repeatedly punched by something that is easily capable of shattering diamonds.

      Tusk can't hit Star Platinum if it's being beaten to death the moment it enters its range. There's literally no getting past that. Star Platinum was able to punch in several large holes in The World, another A-Durability Stand. There is no reason Tusk, a Stand much slower and actually less responsive (i.e it doesn't follow Johnny's commands as precisely as Star Platinum does, since it mainly just indiscriminately kills things, even Johnny himself if he gets caught in the crossfire) than both Star Platinum AND The World, and I guarantee you Star Platinum won't try to go for a clash of barrages once it realizes Tusk is far slower than it (which is literally the moment Tusk tries to throw a punch) and will just bludgeon Tusk without effort.

      also shit i wrote a paragrpah anyway

      i kinda get it. star platinum can break diamonds. BUT. 

      1: again, it took a lot of punches to beat the world. the world and tusk act 4 both have an A in durability

      2: all you need is contact. not just with his fists, it can be the bullet, tusks fist, tusks armour, anything tusk

      also, tusk is pretty fucking fast. name one reason tusk is like a fucking snail compared to other punch ghosts like star platinum.

      and also, why WOULDNT star platium go for an oraora if tusk is slower? jotaro knows that star platinum is gonna land more hits in. and also, johnny wont be anywhere near tusk, because once jotaro is in range of tusk, but not vice versa, he will fire a bullet around 25 horse lengths away, being nowhere near his own stand.

      Because Jotaro has no reason to let the enemy land hits in when he can just beat the shit out of them? He didn't exactly let Killer Queen punch him while he was borderline mutilating Kira. Also, Tusk has never been shown to be anywhere near as fast as Star Platinum. It wasn't able to protect Johnny from any of the projectiles Diego threw at him, not even any of the bullets he fired.

      Also, we've said this time and time again. There is no evidence that any physical contact with Tusk will initiate the infinite spin. That is complete conjecture and you can't use it in an argument unless you have any substantial proof that confirms it. Even if you consider it a headcanon, you can't use that at all.

        Loading editor
    • I'm just going to set it straight.

      Star Platinum is confirmed faster, stronger, and more durable. Act 4 is not as confirmed. The stats do not lie, and the story does not lie. Act 4 has the downside of not being shown enough to see it's complete potential, but Star Platinum has been covered plenty. We know how fast Star Platinum can be over many times, but Act 4 isn't the same. Act 4 isn't a "snail", but it sure as hell hasn't been said to go over the speed of light. Act 4 isn't weak, but it also hasn't been said to be the strongest stand (unlike Star Platinum).

      Jotaro is the kind of person that got more reasonable the older he got. In his first encounter with Crazy Diamond, when he was about to be hit, instead of using Star Platinum to block or move out of the way (which he could if he needed to), he used Time Stop. So depending on what generation of Jotaro we use, it could go differently.

      It's not technically confirmed that touching Act 4 in general induces the Super Spin, but it doesn't matter because the moment Jotaro can't move his body due to the Super Spin ruining his body, he can just stop time and finish the job with Star Platinum. Timestop most definitely could stop infinity itself because timestop allowed for Act 4 to stop; a stand that can pass infinite protection.

      And my last point, Act 4 is a pain to activate, and Jotaro being aggressive can really be a problem for someone like Johnny that needs range and time to set up.

        Loading editor
    • Infant's Isopod wrote:
      bECAUTusk act 5 wrote:
      Tusk act 5 wrote:
      Infant's Isopod wrote:
      Tusk act 5 wrote:
      S.Cond Bomb wrote:
      Tusk act 5 wrote:
      Zodazzle wrote:
      ...What? Are you seriously comparing speeds by their visible punches in the manga (that are also over a decade apart) rather than their actual stats? Star Platinum has an A, and Tusk Act 4 has a B. Literally look at the stats and there you go. Besides, Star Platinum has been said to exceed the speed of light, and Tusk Act 4 can't apply to that. So it's definite that Star Platinum is faster. Stop digging for evidence of speed in the manga, which keep in mind aren't in motion.
      keep in mind stand stats are infamously confusing and make no sense. and also, i dare you to bring up as many VALID points as i have during this argument. disproving one point doesnt mean the rest of my evidence is faulty. and again, ONE FUCKING HIT. thats all it takes. i dont know how many times it needs to be said, but ONE FUCKING HIT IS ALL IT TAKES TO WIN. i dont even need any more evidence than that, but the valid points ive brought up simply reinforce my argument. and again, if the stats are supposedly the deciding factor, then AN A IN DURBILITY should be able to let tusk tank one or two hits before HE RENDERS JOTARO USELESS WITH ONE FUCKING HIT.to be fair, youve brought up some good points. but that one peice of evidence is the strongest brought up in this argument, and while you are focusing on disproving one or two points for every five i bring up, i actually have concrete evidence to back up my point. name one reason why jotaro wouldnt try and tank one or two hits to land an ora rush.
      >Stand stats infamously confusing

      But they're not...? The only offender that I can think of would be Destructive Power, but that only represents physical strenght.

      >One hit is all it takes to win

      Tusk still has to land that hit. There's also the fact that Johnny himself cannot move in stopped time, meaning SP is gonna fuck him up.

      >A in durability

      The World had an A in durability too, and Star Platinum fucked it up on multiple occasions. I doubt Tusk is gonna fare much better.

      >One reason why Jotaro wouldn't tank one or two hits to do an ora rush

      He could, but that doesn't mean he should. Also, if he immediately opens with time-stop, he won't even need to take that Tusk hit.

      1: fair, i suppose. but there is no set number for each stat. i mean, star platinum, hanged man, and silver chariot all have an A in speed, but have different speeds. and weather report (the stand) has a B in speed, and it can literally summon the fastest winds ever recorded. compare that wind speed vs highway star's B in speed, topping at 60 km/hour

      2: yeah, but tusk will land a hit if jotaro opens with an ora ora. and again, tusk can move in timestop, which will definitely catch jotaro off-guard

      3: yeah, but that took about like 4 episodes for the world to get beaten, and hits were landed on both sides. and tusk is the only one with super spin punches

      4: its his go-to move, and tusk and the bullets can move in timestop. and jotaro will often react to projectiles by catching them, aibeit activating super spin

      Jesus christ, this argument is going on way too long and I'm not in the mood to write another paragraph, so...


      You can't land a hit if you're being repeatedly punched by something that is easily capable of shattering diamonds.

      Tusk can't hit Star Platinum if it's being beaten to death the moment it enters its range. There's literally no getting past that. Star Platinum was able to punch in several large holes in The World, another A-Durability Stand. There is no reason Tusk, a Stand much slower and actually less responsive (i.e it doesn't follow Johnny's commands as precisely as Star Platinum does, since it mainly just indiscriminately kills things, even Johnny himself if he gets caught in the crossfire) than both Star Platinum AND The World, and I guarantee you Star Platinum won't try to go for a clash of barrages once it realizes Tusk is far slower than it (which is literally the moment Tusk tries to throw a punch) and will just bludgeon Tusk without effort.

      also shit i wrote a paragrpah anyway

      i kinda get it. star platinum can break diamonds. BUT. 

      1: again, it took a lot of punches to beat the world. the world and tusk act 4 both have an A in durability

      2: all you need is contact. not just with his fists, it can be the bullet, tusks fist, tusks armour, anything tusk

      also, tusk is pretty fucking fast. name one reason tusk is like a fucking snail compared to other punch ghosts like star platinum.

      and also, why WOULDNT star platium go for an oraora if tusk is slower? jotaro knows that star platinum is gonna land more hits in. and also, johnny wont be anywhere near tusk, because once jotaro is in range of tusk, but not vice versa, he will fire a bullet around 25 horse lengths away, being nowhere near his own stand.

      Because Jotaro has no reason to let the enemy land hits in when he can just beat the shit out of them? He didn't exactly let Killer Queen punch him while he was borderline mutilating Kira. Also, Tusk has never been shown to be anywhere near as fast as Star Platinum. It wasn't able to protect Johnny from any of the projectiles Diego threw at him, not even any of the bullets he fired.

      Also, we've said this time and time again. There is no evidence that any physical contact with Tusk will initiate the infinite spin. That is complete conjecture and you can't use it in an argument unless you have any substantial proof that confirms it. Even if you consider it a headcanon, you can't use that at all.

      that is incorrect. just look at how funny valentine or johnny himself got trapped in super spin: via contact with tusk or tusk's bullet. that in itself should easily seal the deal in this fight, but that one piece of concrete evidence that makes the outcome obvious doesnt seem to be enough. so to prove my point more, the only reason jotaro never got hit by kira during the final fight was because jotaro stopped time, but since tusk can move in timestop, thats rendered null.

        Loading editor
    • Tusk still can't move during the entirety of stop time though. Only for a small amount, and way too little for it to matter. The way I see it is that Jotaro tries to pummel Act 4, gets hit by the Spin, and falls to the ground. Johnny still doesn't know about timestop, and stands there. Jotaro then stops time and finishes the job by pummeling Johnny or Act 4 (and damage carries to the user either way).

        Loading editor
    • Zodazzle wrote:
      Tusk still can't move during the entirety of stop time though. Only for a small amount, and way too little for it to matter.

      The way I see it is that Jotaro tries to pummel Act 4, gets hit by the Spin, and falls to the ground. Johnny still doesn't know about timestop, and stands there. Jotaro then stops time and finishes the job by pummeling Johnny or Act 4 (and damage carries to the user either way).

      gets hit by spin.

      so you agree with me then. tusk wins, because INFINITE ROTATION. that one bit of crucial evidence doesnt seem to be registering. that is all it takes. if hes hit by spin, he loses. period. he cant do ANYTHING when hit by infinite spin.

        Loading editor
    • Tusk act 5 wrote:
      Zodazzle wrote:
      Tusk still can't move during the entirety of stop time though. Only for a small amount, and way too little for it to matter.

      The way I see it is that Jotaro tries to pummel Act 4, gets hit by the Spin, and falls to the ground. Johnny still doesn't know about timestop, and stands there. Jotaro then stops time and finishes the job by pummeling Johnny or Act 4 (and damage carries to the user either way).

      gets hit by spin.

      so you agree with me then. tusk wins, because INFINITE ROTATION. that one bit of crucial evidence doesnt seem to be registering. that is all it takes. if hes hit by spin, he loses. period. he cant do ANYTHING when hit by infinite spin.

      Yes, he gets hit. But he then stops time, which also stops the infinite spin. Then he ORAORAs Johnny into a pulp.

        Loading editor
    • S.Cond Bomb wrote:
      Tusk act 5 wrote:
      Zodazzle wrote:
      Tusk still can't move during the entirety of stop time though. Only for a small amount, and way too little for it to matter.

      The way I see it is that Jotaro tries to pummel Act 4, gets hit by the Spin, and falls to the ground. Johnny still doesn't know about timestop, and stands there. Jotaro then stops time and finishes the job by pummeling Johnny or Act 4 (and damage carries to the user either way).

      gets hit by spin.

      so you agree with me then. tusk wins, because INFINITE ROTATION. that one bit of crucial evidence doesnt seem to be registering. that is all it takes. if hes hit by spin, he loses. period. he cant do ANYTHING when hit by infinite spin.

      Yes, he gets hit. But he then stops time, which also stops the infinite spin. Then he ORAORAs Johnny into a pulp.

      but jotaro will still be spinning during timestop. think about it. when dio was launched through the air in stopped time, he was still bleeding like fuck. and when dio threw knives, they traveled for about one second. that means that people who can move in stopped time are still affected by things currently in contact with or parts of their body doing something involuntarily, like a heartbeat. that means that if every cell in your body is spinning, and you stop time, you are still gonna be spinning to fuck. and also, while it took johnny a while to realize diego can stop time, johnny will have the experience from fighting diego, meaning that when jotaro seemingly teleports and is spinning to fuck out of nowhere, he will realize tusk act 4 came into contact with jotaro. also, shouting 'star platinum, THE WORLD'  might tip off johnny.

        Loading editor
    • Yes, Tusk and Johnny can move in Timestop for a second, but the rest of the things you listed are more for aesthetic than actual fact. And even if they count, a second of spinning isn't all that bad. As for the rest, I do agree that the one main benefit Johnny has is that he has experience with timestop. Also, I can't tell what Dio you were talking about that bled during timestop, but both of them had stands with timestop, so that's why.

        Loading editor
    • Zodazzle wrote:
      Yes, Tusk and Johnny can move in Timestop for a second, but the rest of the things you listed are more for aesthetic than actual fact. And even if they count, a second of spinning isn't all that bad. As for the rest, I do agree that the one main benefit Johnny has is that he has experience with timestop. Also, I can't tell what Dio you were talking about that bled during timestop, but both of them had stands with timestop, so that's why.

      yeah, but the one thing that ends jotaro is the fact that the spin is ATTACHED to him. dio was bleeding like shit, and jotaro was too.  so if jotaro's every cell is spinning, he will still be spinning to fuck during timestop. also, i was talking about dio brando

        Loading editor
    • Tusk act 5 wrote:
      Infant's Isopod wrote:
      bECAUTusk act 5 wrote:
      Tusk act 5 wrote:
      Infant's Isopod wrote:
      Tusk act 5 wrote:
      S.Cond Bomb wrote:
      Tusk act 5 wrote:
      Zodazzle wrote:
      ...What? Are you seriously comparing speeds by their visible punches in the manga (that are also over a decade apart) rather than their actual stats? Star Platinum has an A, and Tusk Act 4 has a B. Literally look at the stats and there you go. Besides, Star Platinum has been said to exceed the speed of light, and Tusk Act 4 can't apply to that. So it's definite that Star Platinum is faster. Stop digging for evidence of speed in the manga, which keep in mind aren't in motion.
      keep in mind stand stats are infamously confusing and make no sense. and also, i dare you to bring up as many VALID points as i have during this argument. disproving one point doesnt mean the rest of my evidence is faulty. and again, ONE FUCKING HIT. thats all it takes. i dont know how many times it needs to be said, but ONE FUCKING HIT IS ALL IT TAKES TO WIN. i dont even need any more evidence than that, but the valid points ive brought up simply reinforce my argument. and again, if the stats are supposedly the deciding factor, then AN A IN DURBILITY should be able to let tusk tank one or two hits before HE RENDERS JOTARO USELESS WITH ONE FUCKING HIT.to be fair, youve brought up some good points. but that one peice of evidence is the strongest brought up in this argument, and while you are focusing on disproving one or two points for every five i bring up, i actually have concrete evidence to back up my point. name one reason why jotaro wouldnt try and tank one or two hits to land an ora rush.
      >Stand stats infamously confusing

      But they're not...? The only offender that I can think of would be Destructive Power, but that only represents physical strenght.

      >One hit is all it takes to win

      Tusk still has to land that hit. There's also the fact that Johnny himself cannot move in stopped time, meaning SP is gonna fuck him up.

      >A in durability

      The World had an A in durability too, and Star Platinum fucked it up on multiple occasions. I doubt Tusk is gonna fare much better.

      >One reason why Jotaro wouldn't tank one or two hits to do an ora rush

      He could, but that doesn't mean he should. Also, if he immediately opens with time-stop, he won't even need to take that Tusk hit.

      1: fair, i suppose. but there is no set number for each stat. i mean, star platinum, hanged man, and silver chariot all have an A in speed, but have different speeds. and weather report (the stand) has a B in speed, and it can literally summon the fastest winds ever recorded. compare that wind speed vs highway star's B in speed, topping at 60 km/hour

      2: yeah, but tusk will land a hit if jotaro opens with an ora ora. and again, tusk can move in timestop, which will definitely catch jotaro off-guard

      3: yeah, but that took about like 4 episodes for the world to get beaten, and hits were landed on both sides. and tusk is the only one with super spin punches

      4: its his go-to move, and tusk and the bullets can move in timestop. and jotaro will often react to projectiles by catching them, aibeit activating super spin

      Jesus christ, this argument is going on way too long and I'm not in the mood to write another paragraph, so...


      You can't land a hit if you're being repeatedly punched by something that is easily capable of shattering diamonds.

      Tusk can't hit Star Platinum if it's being beaten to death the moment it enters its range. There's literally no getting past that. Star Platinum was able to punch in several large holes in The World, another A-Durability Stand. There is no reason Tusk, a Stand much slower and actually less responsive (i.e it doesn't follow Johnny's commands as precisely as Star Platinum does, since it mainly just indiscriminately kills things, even Johnny himself if he gets caught in the crossfire) than both Star Platinum AND The World, and I guarantee you Star Platinum won't try to go for a clash of barrages once it realizes Tusk is far slower than it (which is literally the moment Tusk tries to throw a punch) and will just bludgeon Tusk without effort.

      also shit i wrote a paragrpah anyway

      i kinda get it. star platinum can break diamonds. BUT. 

      1: again, it took a lot of punches to beat the world. the world and tusk act 4 both have an A in durability

      2: all you need is contact. not just with his fists, it can be the bullet, tusks fist, tusks armour, anything tusk

      also, tusk is pretty fucking fast. name one reason tusk is like a fucking snail compared to other punch ghosts like star platinum.

      and also, why WOULDNT star platium go for an oraora if tusk is slower? jotaro knows that star platinum is gonna land more hits in. and also, johnny wont be anywhere near tusk, because once jotaro is in range of tusk, but not vice versa, he will fire a bullet around 25 horse lengths away, being nowhere near his own stand.

      Because Jotaro has no reason to let the enemy land hits in when he can just beat the shit out of them? He didn't exactly let Killer Queen punch him while he was borderline mutilating Kira. Also, Tusk has never been shown to be anywhere near as fast as Star Platinum. It wasn't able to protect Johnny from any of the projectiles Diego threw at him, not even any of the bullets he fired.

      Also, we've said this time and time again. There is no evidence that any physical contact with Tusk will initiate the infinite spin. That is complete conjecture and you can't use it in an argument unless you have any substantial proof that confirms it. Even if you consider it a headcanon, you can't use that at all.

      that is incorrect. just look at how funny valentine or johnny himself got trapped in super spin: via contact with tusk or tusk's bullet. that in itself should easily seal the deal in this fight, but that one piece of concrete evidence that makes the outcome obvious doesnt seem to be enough. so to prove my point more, the only reason jotaro never got hit by kira during the final fight was because jotaro stopped time, but since tusk can move in timestop, thats rendered null.

      That wasn't Tusk itself, that was the Infinite Rotation. It stuck onto Johnny because it was an Infinite Spin-infected object, which transfered it onto him. They literally said that touching an object or person that is afflicted with the Infinite Rotation will transfer it onto you.

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    • yeah. so that means jotaro will be rendered useless even in timestop either way

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    • >Tusk can move in timestop

      Yeah, by a few centimeters. Basically negligible.

      >Jotaro will be rendered useless even in timestop either way

      Even then, Joot has plenty of time to ORAORA Johnny to death before the infinite spin kills him. If the spin goes away if Johnny dies, then Jotaro wins. If it doesn't, then he still technically wins.

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    • Tusk act 5 wrote:
      yeah. so that means jotaro will be rendered useless even in timestop either way

      What?? How the hell did you even come to that conclusion? THAT WASN'T TUSK. Tusk hit Diego's leg, afflicting it with the Infinite Rotation. Diego cut off his leg and threw it at Johnny, afflicting HIM with the Infinite Rotation.

      There are MULTIPLE times in the manga where Johnny touches ACT 4 but is completely fine, so how is this an exception??

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    • Infant's Isopod wrote:
      Tusk act 5 wrote:
      yeah. so that means jotaro will be rendered useless even in timestop either way
      What?? How the hell did you even come to that conclusion? THAT WASN'T TUSK. Tusk hit Diego's leg, afflicting it with the Infinite Rotation. Diego cut off his leg and threw it at Johnny, afflicting HIM with the Infinite Rotation.

      There are MULTIPLE times in the manga where Johnny touches ACT 4 but is completely fine, so how is this an exception??

      BECAUSE HE IS THE STANDS USER. him being affected by touching tusk would be like jotaro not being able to move in his own timestop. and also, unless jotaro had been filled in on johnnys ability, he wouldnt know that tearing off his own leg (a pretty drastic action) would be the only way to win. and again, JOTARO CAN BLEED, CUT HIMSELF, USE A MAGNET, IN STOPPED TIME. SO IF HE HIMSELF IS MOVING, HE WILL STILL BE MOVING WHEN HE STOPS TIME. that is unavoidable. tusk destroys star platinum

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    • Tusk act 5 wrote:
      Infant's Isopod wrote:
      Tusk act 5 wrote:
      yeah. so that means jotaro will be rendered useless even in timestop either way
      What?? How the hell did you even come to that conclusion? THAT WASN'T TUSK. Tusk hit Diego's leg, afflicting it with the Infinite Rotation. Diego cut off his leg and threw it at Johnny, afflicting HIM with the Infinite Rotation.

      There are MULTIPLE times in the manga where Johnny touches ACT 4 but is completely fine, so how is this an exception??

      BECAUSE HE IS THE STANDS USER. him being affected by touching tusk would be like jotaro not being able to move in his own timestop. and also, unless jotaro had been filled in on johnnys ability, he wouldnt know that tearing off his own leg (a pretty drastic action) would be the only way to win. and again, JOTARO CAN BLEED, CUT HIMSELF, USE A MAGNET, IN STOPPED TIME. SO IF HE HIMSELF IS MOVING, HE WILL STILL BE MOVING WHEN HE STOPS TIME. that is unavoidable. tusk destroys star platinum

      BUT JOHNNY WAS ATTACKED BY THE INFINITE ROTATION WHEN HE TOUCHED DIEGO'S LEG! WHY DO YOU KEEP CONTRADICTING YOURSELF LIKE THIS?!

      *incoherent screeching*

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    • The way I see it is that if Tusk Act 4 DOES affect anything with the Infinite Rotation, then Johnny CAN be aswell, since Dio's leg managed to pass the spin on. If not, then it just means that Jotaro only has to stop time and pummel Johnny, who probably still doesn't know about Star Platinum's ability.

      AND FOR THE LAST TIME. JOHNNY CAN MOVE SOMEWHAT IN TIMESTOP, BUT NOT LONG ENOUGH TO DO ANYTHING. AND DEFINITELY WON'T BE FASTER THAN STAR PLATINUM.

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    • AND JOTARO CANT DO SHIT WHILE SPINNING

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    • Except... you know... stop time and freeze the rotation... like I've said... also as a note, so long as it's done quick enough, he won't be COMPLETELY spinning. And if Jotaro sees Act 4 entering his body like what happened in Johnny and Diego's fight, then he will be quick to act.

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    • look, jotaro can bleed in timestop, so wouldnt he be able to spin?

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    • That's because HE can move in timestop, not the SPIN itself. His blood is his, the Spin is a new force that ISN'T his body.

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    • Also, that's a REALLY small thing to nitpick from such a long time ago.

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    • If Tusk, which is the physical manifestation of the Infinite Spin and can only be summoned once the Infinite Spin is initiated, can only move slightly during timestop, then realistically the Infinite Spin would be MUCH less powerful in frozen time. Jotaro would be in pain, but he wouldn't be under that much strain ((fuckthatrhymed)). He'd have plenty of time to donut ACT 4.

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    • yeah, but if the spin is ATTACHED to jotaro, which it will be, it will work similar to jotaros clothes or dios knives: that being while in contact with a moving object during timestop, it will also move.

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    • Kakyoin couldn't move or sock DIO in the face when he got fisted in stopped time. Objects being able to move in frozen time is because the user of the frozen time is physically moving the object. Anything that is self-propelled, like a knife that was thrown by an outside force, will stop because the user isn't moving it. The same applies to the Infinite Rotation: It won't keep spinning because Jotaro isn't moving it, it's moving on its own.

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    • Alright before I say this let me inform you that:

      Although I personally like Act 4 more, I can't really think of how this battle would end. Like someone at the beginning of this thread said, it could end if one or the other did a certain action. Therefore, I am saying that I am not on either side. I am just saying something I think is intresting.

      I could be wrong, but usually in processes whenever you create a infinty loop (ex. infinite rotation) it cannot be stopped. for example, lets say that 1 is the normal world time speed. Everything moves at 1. 2 would be something like fast forwarded time. 0.5 would be a example of slowed down time. So this means that stopped time means the normal speed of 1 (which you could say is running in a loop of that time) completely stops, rendering it to 0. BUT infinity x 0 usually = undefined, unless further proved on.

      Don't get confused, I am NOT saying that tusk act 4 should be able to move in ts normally. I am just saying that the spin, if infused in jotaro's body, should not stop in timestop.

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    • Lookseee wrote:
      Alright before I say this let me inform you that:

      Although I personally like Act 4 more, I can't really think of how this battle would end. Like someone at the beginning of this thread said, it could end if one or the other did a certain action. Therefore, I am saying that I am not on either side. I am just saying something I think is intresting.

      I could be wrong, but usually in processes whenever you create a infinty loop (ex. infinite rotation) it cannot be stopped. for example, lets say that 1 is the normal world time speed. Everything moves at 1. 2 would be something like fast forwarded time. 0.5 would be a example of slowed down time. So this means that stopped time means the normal speed of 1 (which you could say is running in a loop of that time) completely stops, rendering it to 0. BUT infinity x 0 usually = undefined, unless further proved on.

      Don't get confused, I am NOT saying that tusk act 4 should be able to move in ts normally. I am just saying that the spin, if infused in jotaro's body, should not stop in timestop.

      But Infinity x 0 = 0. ANYTHING multiplied by 0 becomes 0. I don't really understand your point.

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    • Infant's Isopod wrote:
      Lookseee wrote:
      Alright before I say this let me inform you that:

      Although I personally like Act 4 more, I can't really think of how this battle would end. Like someone at the beginning of this thread said, it could end if one or the other did a certain action. Therefore, I am saying that I am not on either side. I am just saying something I think is intresting.

      I could be wrong, but usually in processes whenever you create a infinty loop (ex. infinite rotation) it cannot be stopped. for example, lets say that 1 is the normal world time speed. Everything moves at 1. 2 would be something like fast forwarded time. 0.5 would be a example of slowed down time. So this means that stopped time means the normal speed of 1 (which you could say is running in a loop of that time) completely stops, rendering it to 0. BUT infinity x 0 usually = undefined, unless further proved on.

      Don't get confused, I am NOT saying that tusk act 4 should be able to move in ts normally. I am just saying that the spin, if infused in jotaro's body, should not stop in timestop.

      But Infinity x 0 = 0. ANYTHING multiplied by 0 becomes 0. I don't really understand your point.

      If i'm wrong, i'm wrong. I'm not gonna argue about this. Good luck on your bickering :ok_hand:

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    • Lookseee wrote:
      Infant's Isopod wrote:
      Lookseee wrote:
      Alright before I say this let me inform you that:

      Although I personally like Act 4 more, I can't really think of how this battle would end. Like someone at the beginning of this thread said, it could end if one or the other did a certain action. Therefore, I am saying that I am not on either side. I am just saying something I think is intresting.

      I could be wrong, but usually in processes whenever you create a infinty loop (ex. infinite rotation) it cannot be stopped. for example, lets say that 1 is the normal world time speed. Everything moves at 1. 2 would be something like fast forwarded time. 0.5 would be a example of slowed down time. So this means that stopped time means the normal speed of 1 (which you could say is running in a loop of that time) completely stops, rendering it to 0. BUT infinity x 0 usually = undefined, unless further proved on.

      Don't get confused, I am NOT saying that tusk act 4 should be able to move in ts normally. I am just saying that the spin, if infused in jotaro's body, should not stop in timestop.

      But Infinity x 0 = 0. ANYTHING multiplied by 0 becomes 0. I don't really understand your point.
      If i'm wrong, i'm wrong. I'm not gonna argue about this. Good luck on your bickering :ok_hand:

      Seems... awfully condescending, but okay, thank you.

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    • though personally i believe star platinum wins this fight, infinity is a concept, can't multiply it by zero

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    • I'm just gonna say a couple things in this late ass reply.


      -Johnny can't use Super Spin without Slow Dancer, if Johnny was able to use Slow Dancer it wouldn't be a true 1v1 especially since Johnny can walk at the end of part 7, it's like saying two people fighting but one has a gun is a fair fight.

      -We don't know a lot about Tusk ACT 4's ability to transfer Super Spin, we don't know if it's like Boku no Rhythm where he can be hit or hit them and the power transfers or if it's like Killer Queen where he has to be the one to make contact in order for the power to activate.

      -The difference between an A and a B in stats is pretty drastic. Take the Killer Queen vs Crazy Diamond fight for example. KQ is a B in speed while CD is an A and the fight was one sided in terms of punching where KQ couldn't land a punch of his own on CD. I don't think it would be too much of a stretch to say that the speed difference would also apply to Tusk ACT 4 and Star Platinum. 

      -Lastly, if we're bringing in the users in to the equation Star Platinum would basically instantly win once it got in range of Johnny, considering that Jotaro could just turn Johnny into the SBR version of Kakyoin.

      That pretty much wraps up my thoughts I have on this fight. Although ACT 4 can one shot Star Platinum I don't think that it would ever get the chance to touch him with Star Platinum's speed and time stopping ability. But I do think that no other main JoJo stand can beat him unless you're a nerd who counts GER or if Jolyne's mobius loop technique can counter Super Spin.

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    • Mroreocakester wrote:
      I'm just gonna say a couple things in this late ass reply.


      -Johnny can't use Super Spin without Slow Dancer, if Johnny was able to use Slow Dancer it wouldn't be a true 1v1 especially since Johnny can walk at the end of part 7, it's like saying two people fighting but one has a gun is a fair fight.

      -We don't know a lot about Tusk ACT 4's ability to transfer Super Spin, we don't know if it's like Boku no Rhythm where he can be hit or hit them and the power transfers or if it's like Killer Queen where he has to be the one to make contact in order for the power to activate.

      -The difference between an A and a B in stats is pretty drastic. Take the Killer Queen vs Crazy Diamond fight for example. KQ is a B in speed while CD is an A and the fight was one sided in terms of punching where KQ couldn't land a punch of his own on CD. I don't think it would be too much of a stretch to say that the speed difference would also apply to Tusk ACT 4 and Star Platinum. 

      -Lastly, if we're bringing in the users in to the equation Star Platinum would basically instantly win once it got in range of Johnny, considering that Jotaro could just turn Johnny into the SBR version of Kakyoin.

      That pretty much wraps up my thoughts I have on this fight. Although ACT 4 can one shot Star Platinum I don't think that it would ever get the chance to touch him with Star Platinum's speed and time stopping ability. But I do think that no other main JoJo stand can beat him unless you're a nerd who counts GER or if Jolyne's mobius loop technique can counter Super Spin.

      Well said. I agree with the points you've made.

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    • So we just forget that if Jotaro even tried to ora Tusk,he would go into spin the moment he goes in contact with act 4.

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    • Read the thread before you assume we ignored something.

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    • Hamon works during time stop, so most likely the spin does as well, in that state Jotaro would not be able to do anything, also I don't think that he aims to kill his enemies (except with Dio), he didn't donut Kira not even Pucci... but I guess a very pissed off Jotaro could ignore the spin or something...

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    • Hamon doesn't equate to the Spin. Just because the Spin replaces hamon in Part 7 doesn't mean it equates to it in every factor.

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    • In strength:I give to both

      In speed:Also both

      But in hax i have to give to Tusk.Tusk showed resistance to time stop so there goes Jotaro trump card.Also,anything hit by Tusk will be imbued with Spin so this fight is just Tusk hitting Star Platinum with Spin until it takes effect

      So,in a fight,i have to give to Tusk



      -Same speed

      -Same strength

      -Tusk has better Hax

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    • Read the replies above, since they disprove what you said well enough.

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    • HoRaOra9087 wrote:
      In strength:I give to both

      In speed:Also both

      But in hax i have to give to Tusk.Tusk showed resistance to time stop so there goes Jotaro trump card.Also,anything hit by Tusk will be imbued with Spin so this fight is just Tusk hitting Star Platinum with Spin until it takes effect

      So,in a fight,i have to give to Tusk



      -Same speed

      -Same strength

      -Tusk has better Hax

      Buddy read what I said I literally answered all of that.

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    • You didn't listen to what I said and just ignored it. So I'll just set it straight

      1. Tusk can move in stopped time, but not as well as Diego could. So that doesn't mean Jotaro can't use his ability.

      2. Just because Jotaro can't touch Tusk (which I'm stilly iffy on the idea that ANYTHING that touches Tusk will be imbued with the Spin), doesn't mean he can't hurt Johnny. All that Jotaro has to do is stop time and punch the shit out of him. He's been shown to do lots of damage in 2 seconds, so Jotaro's even fast enough to get the first hit on Johnny in a stand off. Beyond bullets too.

      3. They do not have similar speed. Star Platinum is faster. They do not have same strength. Star Platinum is stronger. That is all.

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    • Can i ask one thing?

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    • Like Zodazzle said, Tusk has NEVER shown feats even nearing Star Platinum's. Their stats aren't even comparable. Ignoring Stand abilities, Star Platinum is the physically strongest, fastest and most durable raw-power Stand. Timestop is just the icing on the cake - I'm sure it could defeat Tusk even without it.

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    • Wait are you comparing stand stats?

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    • Tusk 3 would be enough to beat Jotaro, so let's not even talk about Tusk 4.

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    • HoRaOra9087 wrote: Wait are you comparing stand stats?

      No, I'm comparing their feats and using their stand stats to prove my point because I know some people will use them as evidence.

      Nabukun wrote: Tusk 3 would be enough to beat Jotaro, so let's not even talk about Tusk 4.

      No. Just no.

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    • cant jotaro get hit by the infinite spin, stop time and do something to the part that was hit. we've seen diego do it, no reason jotaro wouldnt.

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    • The fight would be over as soon as Johnny shoots and Jotaro, thinking he can deflect the nails, would have Star Platinum punch them. He loses both hands, best scenario, that is if Johnny doesn't erase his heart from our world.

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    • Nabukun wrote:
      The fight would be over as soon as Johnny shoots and Jotaro, thinking he can deflect the nails, would have Star Platinum punch them. He loses both hands, best scenario, that is if Johnny doesn't erase his heart from our world.

      Read the rest of the argument before you start repeating points that have been said already.

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    • I don't think there would be any valid counterargument to my point anyway. Unless you want Johnny to be like, 10 centimeters away from Jotaro, or you think Jotaro would seriously stop time for seemingly innocuous projectiles he sees coming.

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    • Nabukun wrote:
      I don't think there would be any valid counterargument to my point anyway. Unless you want Johnny to be like, 10 centimeters away from Jotaro, or you think Jotaro would seriously stop time for seemingly innocuous projectiles he sees coming.

      The fact that Jotaro would catch the nail bullet with his bare fingers only proves that it wouldn't work after the initial shot. From his experience with Ratt, and knowing he won't be healed by Josuke, the moment he begins to feel the infinite spin's effects he'd just cut off his fingers, if not his entire hand to prevent it from spreading. At that point, he'll use timestop to avoid the nail bullets and close the distance between himself and Johnny, where he'd probably avoid a direct fist-fight with Tusk suspecting that being struck by it would have the same effects as the nail bullets, and instead target Johnny directly (which would be incredibly easy as long as he can use timestop to get around Tusk), then punch him off his horse and beat him unconscious.

      Here's why that's basically how that'd go down:

      1. Tusk is slow. People like to glorify its physical capabilities, but it's only considered as powerful as it is because of the infinite rotation. Otherwise, it's only average. It's also partially automatic due to how powerful the rotation is, and doesn't follow Johnny's commands to a T. Hell, it can even afflict him with the rotation.

      2. Johnny's nails can't ricochet like Ratt's, and he only has 10 to fire per fight. Though he can use wormholes to shoot from different angles, that would be much easier for Jotaro to predict (since he'd see Johnny sticking his arm in a hole in the ground, which would be suspicious as hell) than Ratt firing a dart at an odd angle to catch him off-guard. I should add that Johnny's nails are the ONLY chance he has (which screws him over more, considering he has a limited reserve), because Tusk Act 4 doesn't hold a candle to Star Platinum in a direct fist-fight.

      3. This is more of a side-note if anything because of a misconception, but Tusk can't 'move' in stopped time. It can shift subtly and look around, but only by a few centimeters. It won't attack Jotaro if he tries to walk around it, though it might at least try to graze him with its finger to afflict him with the rotation. I doubt Jotaro would let that happen, though.

      P.S. Everyone's acting like Star Platinum's power is glorified. I keep seeing people in discussions talking about it like its only strength is its timestop, but it's not. Timestop is the icing on the cake - Star Platinum's real strength is the fact that it's an absolute unit. It's objectively the physically strongest, fastest and most durable humanoid Stand (if we ignore abilities like Made in Heaven's universal acceleration). Nothing can beat it in a fair fist-fight. It's just broken beyond belief in that regard.

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    • Too bad Johnny tends to fire at enemies in short bursts, so it's not just one nail bullet, that's two-three moving holes moving to his heart. Because Jotaro doesn't know about Tusk, he won't know it's worth sacrificing his arm (because yes, Jotaro won't grasp the situation quickly enough to just lose a hand or fingers, lol). Diego stood a greater chance because he knew about Tusk, if he ever let The World touch Tusk, he would have lost. He dies of a case of missing vital organ with Act 3, and if he ever cuts off his arm, he loses from blood loss.

      Also, because Johnny isn't an idiot himself, he will try to keep his distance with Jotaro, whose range is still not that great even with Star Platinum's time stop. He can move a couple of meters, maybe a dozen at most, but that's it.

      We can go down an endless abyss of what ifs, but Jotaro is the probable loser of this match if they are face to face with a reasonable distance between the contestants

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    • Nabukun wrote:
      Too bad Johnny tends to fire at enemies in short bursts, so it's not just one nail bullet, that's two-three moving holes moving to his heart. Because Jotaro doesn't know about Tusk, he won't know it's worth sacrificing his arm (because yes, Jotaro won't grasp the situation quickly enough to just lose a hand or fingers, lol). Diego stood a greater chance because he knew about Tusk, if he ever let The World touch Tusk, he would have lost. He dies of a case of missing vital organ with Act 3, and if he ever cuts off his arm, he loses from blood loss.

      Also, because Johnny isn't an idiot himself, he will try to keep his distance with Jotaro, whose range is still not that great even with Star Platinum's time stop. He can move a couple of meters, maybe a dozen at most, but that's it.

      We can go down an endless abyss of what ifs, but Jotaro is the probable loser of this match if they are face to face with a reasonable distance between the contestants

      That just means he'll run out of ammo even faster. Hey, remember that time Jotaro could super-jump? Yeah, there's not much stopping him from doing just that to avoid Tusk's wormholes.

      Also, Johnny can only create tracking wormholes with ACT 2. ACT 2's nail-bullets, of course, only create wormholes if they're embedded in an object and create a 'bullethole', which they can't exactly do if Jotaro just catches the nails or deflects them to disrupt the rotation. With ACT 4, the nails aren't as life-threatening since he still has a few minutes before the Infinite Rotation disintegrates him, so he can easily amputate any limbs when they begin to rotate. Jotaro isn't dense, and if given the opportunity to deduce his enemy's power, can come up with numerous ways to overcome their advantages and exploit their weaknesses.

      You're right, there's an endless abyss of what ifs. We don't know exactly what's going to happen or what the characters will do, but Johnny's numerous options are handicapped by, no pun intended, his weaknesses. If Jotaro is even given the chance to figure out Tusk, he's going to stay mobile and will rely heavily on his timestop to close the gap between him and Johnny. At that point, Johnny will be missing more shots than he can afford to, and he'll run out of nails which will inevitably prove to be his downfall. Johnny can kill Jotaro faster than Jotaro can kill Johnny, yes, but there's too many ways to counteract Tusk's abilities for Jotaro to not somehow discover one. Additionally, if we're allowing Jotaro to use his rifle bullets (like we're presumably allowing Johnny to ride Slow Dancer), there's really not much stopping him from incapacitating Johnny with a shot to the chest, shoulder, or hands.

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    • why are people only saying that jotaro doesnt know about johnny, johnny doesnt know anything about jotaro's stando too

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    • Because if they did jotaro would stomp jonny

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    • That's because Johnny has experience with time fuckery and he also easily deduced The World's power.

      But, that's largely irrelevant since Johnny shoots and Jotaro is fucked as soon as he catches the nail bullets.

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    • Nabukun wrote:
      That's because Johnny has experience with time fuckery and he also easily deduced The World's power.

      But, that's largely irrelevant since Johnny shoots and Jotaro is fucked as soon as he catches the nail bullets.

      You have a point there

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    • Yeah I see more johnny wins than Jotaro wins when I play the scenario in my mind. Bout 7/10 in Johnny's Favor.

      Now in the event Johnny doesn't immediately go into Act 4, Jotaro stomps big time.

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    • Ok, I seen comments and who would win, Johnny or Jotaro, so, here I go, with my point of view.

      Ok, first, Tusk Act4 with his infinity spin will fuck up Jotaro no matter what, even after the time will be stopped and it will flow again, Jotaro will still spin to death, cause spin is not a stand, it is not relied on the user life or it current status, the infinity spin will still fuck up Jotaro even with time stop, plus, remember Funny Valentine could not even use his D4C ability to transport his soul to the other Alternate Universe after being hit by Tusk Act4, so it means Tusk Act4 can negates stands abilities completely if it’s infinite spin hits someone with stand, so Jotaro could not use his time stop anyway. So yeah Johnny could defeat him... BUT In other scenario, Star Platinum with its speed and power will obliterate Tusk Act4 because it’s stats are weaker even if Tusk Act4 has Durability-A remember Star Platinum has Power-A and the same speed plus time stop, so Star Platinum would still beat the shit out of Tusk.... BUT Jotaro in fist fight 1v1 could beat Johnny as well, no, Jotaro will beat Johnny in 1v1 fist fight, because Jotaro has more muscular body than Johnny and Johnny doesn’t knows any martial arts, so yeah.

      In total, Johnny will win if he will use Infinite spin on Jotaro or will hit him first in the face but Jotaro is likely to win in face to face battle with stand and without one, because Johnny is not that muscular and Tusk is not fast enough to be able to block punches.

      So yeah, this is my opinion.

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    • So we just ignoring the fact that Johnny NEEDS HIS HORSE TO USE SUPER SPIN? The fuck kind of 1v1 is that if he gets his horse considering the dude can walk at the end of part 7???

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    • Mroreocakester wrote: So we just ignoring the fact that Johnny NEEDS HIS HORSE TO USE SUPER SPIN? The fuck kind of 1v1 is that if he gets his horse considering the dude can walk at the end of part 7???

      He doesn’t needs just horse he can also use a steel ball, remember, in part 8(at the flashback) he used super spin without horse, so yeah, his super spin doesn’t really needs horse for that.

      Oh wait nvm he does needs horse for super spin but still, I think he did found a way to use super spin differently.

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    • Let's not forget that Tusk ACT 4 beat absolutely annihilated D4C, like not even close, and D4C has exactly the same Stats as Star Platinum. And that damage taken by Tusk isn't reflected on to Johnny, and that killing Johnny doesn't stop the infinite rotation if it's hit someone. People seem to think that Jotaro could tank the infinite spin by stopping time and killing Johnny but if Jotaro gets hit, it's over for him. Cutting off limbs is extremely out of character for Jotaro and even then it is merely a temporary solution.

      Also you're crazy if you think Star Platinum beats out Tusk in physical strength.

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    • No, your crazy if you think Tusk beats out Star Platinum in strength. Jojo stand stats are iffy at best, so stand with the same stats aren't always the same. SP would beat out Tusk AND D4C with ease because, as we saw, Crazy diamond can punch a hole through TWO ppl, and SP is stronger than CD, so I think it's safe to say the SP is stronger than Tusk.

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    • I'm aware that stats are unreliable, that was kinda my point. I'm looking at feats. As far as I can tell, SP best strength feat is when he donutted The World. Very impressive, but doesn't compare to ACT 4, which made a 5 meter deep hole in the ground with a single punch during the Valentine fight, and smashed straight through the ground into the sewers below, again with one or two punches. Way better than any of Star Platinum's strength feats. I'll admit that ACT 4 isn't as fast or precise as Star Platinum but no Stand is so that's almost token. But ACT 4 inarguably has major advantages in both range and durability.

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    • While Tusk has done those things, SP is STRONGER than a stand that punched a hole straight through 2 ppl, which, in my opinion, is a better the donnuting ZA WORLDO(sorry I had to) and SP is stronger so I think that is comparable to punching a 5 foot hole in the ground. Tusks range does not matter, time stop can deal with that and  THE WORLD has durability comparable to Tusk, which Jotaro got through in 1 punch. Now think about that strength, but used about 5 times a second. As a memer would say "That's alotta damage!"

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    • Lol, not 5 feet. 5 meters. That's almost 17 ft of rock and compressed dirt, shattered in a single punch. Star Platinum wasn't even strong enough to break the ROADA ROLLA.

      Tusk and The World may both have an A in durability, but Tusk is far more durable, as it doesn't reflect damage on to Johnny, nor is it ever shown to take any kind of serious damage. Za Warudo, who's physically identical to Star Platinum, had no means to hurt it, only bypass it to go for Johnny since Diego knew he had no chance against it head on.

      I'd also argue that donutting Za Warudo is the better feat, because that Stand is WAY more durable than 2 people, but that's neither here bit there.

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    • Kingasdfg wrote:
      I'm aware that stats are unreliable, that was kinda my point. I'm looking at feats. As far as I can tell, SP best strength feat is when he donutted The World. Very impressive, but doesn't compare to ACT 4, which made a 5 meter deep hole in the ground with a single punch during the Valentine fight, and smashed straight through the ground into the sewers below, again with one or two punches. Way better than any of Star Platinum's strength feats. I'll admit that ACT 4 isn't as fast or precise as Star Platinum but no Stand is so that's almost token. But ACT 4 inarguably has major advantages in both range and durability.

      "SP best strength feat is when he donutted The World" So you're either blatantly ignoring him breaking High Priestess' teeth, you know, the things said to he harder than diamond, or you forgot about it. 

      And honestly if you say anything about super spin you should instantly lose all credibility because you have 0 knowledge on spin.

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    • In this situation. If it is a 1V1, Johnny would not be able to use super spin. Giving him his horse is having him have an unfair advantage. He can walk its not like he needs it.

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    • The thread's called "Tusk act 4 VS Star platinum" for a reason man. Of course Johnny gets his horse. And how does mentioning the Super Spin immediately discredit someone's argument? I'm for Jotaro winning, but not for those reasons.

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    • Hi Zodazzle

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    • Mroreocakester wrote:

      Kingasdfg wrote:
      I'm aware that stats are unreliable, that was kinda my point. I'm looking at feats. As far as I can tell, SP best strength feat is when he donutted The World. Very impressive, but doesn't compare to ACT 4, which made a 5 meter deep hole in the ground with a single punch during the Valentine fight, and smashed straight through the ground into the sewers below, again with one or two punches. Way better than any of Star Platinum's strength feats. I'll admit that ACT 4 isn't as fast or precise as Star Platinum but no Stand is so that's almost token. But ACT 4 inarguably has major advantages in both range and durability.

      "SP best strength feat is when he donutted The World" So you're either blatantly ignoring him breaking High Priestess' teeth, you know, the things said to he harder than diamond, or you forgot about it. 

      And honestly if you say anything about super spin you should instantly lose all credibility because you have 0 knowledge on spin.

      Honestly I usually don't use the High Priestess teeth feat because, contrary to popular belief, diamond is not unbreakable (in fact, a normal person can fracture diamond without much struggle). Considering the hits it takes, I'd say The World is more durable.

      The entire context of the fight is Tusk ACT 4 vs Star Platinum. We're not arguing for a 1v1, we're arguing whether or not ACT 4 could beat Star Plat assuming Johnny already pulled it off. I'll be the first to admit that Johnny gets stomped without ACT 4 but the hypothetical assumes Johnny has the means to summon it.

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    • The thing is, that Johnny with his Tusk Act4 could beat D4C: love train but Star Platinum can’t, I don’t know why I mentioned this

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    • Нейтральный кантри wrote:
      The thing is, that Johnny with his Tusk Act4 could beat D4C: love train but Star Platinum can’t, I don’t know why I mentioned this

      It's a point worth mentioning that it could very possibly work in Janken fashion or you could be using power scaling but w/ hax that doesn't really work. 

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    • Zodazzle wrote:
      The thread's called "Tusk act 4 VS Star platinum" for a reason man. Of course Johnny gets his horse. And how does mentioning the Super Spin immediately discredit someone's argument? I'm for Jotaro winning, but not for those reasons.

      Oh yeah lol I forgot the title was just talking about the stands

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    • I feel like Johnny would win, but Jotaro would still have a chance at close range. I'll just list some scenarios.

      1. Jotaro gets affected by infinite spin and kept at bay and dies. This would most likely happen at long range.

      2. Jotaro beats Johnny quickly (Lethally or nonlethally) and wins. This could be at close range.

      3. Jotaro is affected by the infinite spin but kills/beats Johnny, but then dies, ending in a stalemate. This is probably the most likely thing to happen at cllose range.

      Why Jotaro would be affected by the spin in close range: All it takes is a punch. It doesn't matter if it's blocked or not, it's likely that Jotaro won't know about the stand and will try to block it. I don't hate Jotaro and SP or anything tho. I just think that Johnny has a better stand due to how a single hit, blocked or not, will kill Jotaro. Think what you will and be as pissed as you want, this is just my opinion on the subject.

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    • If we give Johnny a horse,well

      Johnny wins,since all contact with ACT 4 will result in loss

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    • No the thing is, he can also use Steel Ball for super spin.

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    • Johnny wins. Jotaro/Star Platinum always tries to catch bullets and any contact with an ACT 4 nail bullet will lead either to a stalemate or Jotaro’s death.

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    • Zodazzle wrote:
      That's because HE can move in timestop, not the SPIN itself. His blood is his, the Spin is a new force that ISN'T his body.

      So since Jotaro can move in time stop and the Spin is moving his body, doesn't that mean that Jotaro would still be spinning in time stop.

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    • Infant's Isopod wrote:
      Lookseee wrote:
      Alright before I say this let me inform you that:

      Although I personally like Act 4 more, I can't really think of how this battle would end. Like someone at the beginning of this thread said, it could end if one or the other did a certain action. Therefore, I am saying that I am not on either side. I am just saying something I think is intresting.

      I could be wrong, but usually in processes whenever you create a infinty loop (ex. infinite rotation) it cannot be stopped. for example, lets say that 1 is the normal world time speed. Everything moves at 1. 2 would be something like fast forwarded time. 0.5 would be a example of slowed down time. So this means that stopped time means the normal speed of 1 (which you could say is running in a loop of that time) completely stops, rendering it to 0. BUT infinity x 0 usually = undefined, unless further proved on.

      Don't get confused, I am NOT saying that tusk act 4 should be able to move in ts normally. I am just saying that the spin, if infused in jotaro's body, should not stop in timestop.

      But Infinity x 0 = 0. ANYTHING multiplied by 0 becomes 0. I don't really understand your point.

      Infinity is a value not a number. It is the value for all numbers

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    • Tusk act 5 wrote:
      no, i think tusk act 4 could stand up to star platinum in a fistfight. also, contact would cause jotaro to be affected by the super spin, easily sealing the deal.

      BUT if jotaro had access to super spin then unlimited time stop? 

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    • Jotaro wins because he can asspull more

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    • okay how the fuck is this still going on

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    • Star Platinum because it asspulls more

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    • STAR PLATINUM WOULD LEARN INFINITE ROTATION BECAUSE THEY ARE BOTH THE SAME TYPE OF STAND BWAHAHAHAHAH

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    • yall niggas is rarted

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    • Hey, remember how Johhny can literally teleport into a dark void of nothingness? Good luck on Star Platinum trying to ORA him in the unspeakable void of nothingness. Also, Apparently, Tusk ACT4 can shoot infinite rotation as well as ORA it.

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    • Do you not read threads?

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    • I do. I read most of it. Is your opinion changed? Looking at this thread, most agree that Johnny wins. But, I wanted to add a bit. 

      Again, Infinite Rotation doesn't need to be transferred through physical rushes. It can be shot from nail bullets with infinite rotation. It can go through itself. It wins. 

      If you're saying I missed something, please point it out.

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    • Ohhhhh, I get it. You mean we were factoring in the nail bullets? Well, then there is no argument for fistfight anyways. He could teleport behind or in front of Jotaro using the hole or using some other factor. And, we also factor that infinite rotation is infinite. Even the manga says that the energy of the spin is infinite. It wouldn't stop in time at all. It ascends time. I'll quote the official description. "With the rotation using the horse's running power of infinite rotational energy, In order to control gravity, that rotation pierces through other dimensions. (Its damage is also likely infinite and should never end.)"

      It pierces through other dimensions entirely. At this point, we have to understand the range of timestop. If it can reach other dimensions and the damage is infinite, Jotaro can not win. Fistfight is not even necessary.



      Also, may I redirect all of you to VS Battles Wiki? There is some major bullshit happening there. Funny Valentine without Love Train has lost to Diavolo and Kira. What do you think?

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    • well in order to go in holes, johnny would have to be using act 3 so he cant use act 4 because he doesnt have a horse's power to shoot a infinite nail. (Also i thought the infinite rotation is only thro nails cuz tusk 4 never uses punches to do that like in part 8)

      Edit: Yeah i just remember that D4C was stuck to the place where Tusk 4 punched him into the ground due to the infinite rotation...

      and i can see D4C losing to King Crimson by forecasting ahead and then just smashing D4C head, Killer Queen can just win by you know blowing D4C (the big weakness for D4C is the fact it needs to be between something to go thro dimensions)

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    • Ultimatewillpower wrote:
      I do. I read most of it. Is your opinion changed? Looking at this thread, most agree that Johnny wins. But, I wanted to add a bit. 

      Again, Infinite Rotation doesn't need to be transferred through physical rushes. It can be shot from nail bullets with infinite rotation. It can go through itself. It wins. 

      If you're saying I missed something, please point it out.

      I asked that because you talked about Johnny's infinite rotation bullets as an obvious win when the point was being disputed because it really wasn't.

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    • Ultimatewillpower wrote:
      I do. I read most of it. Is your opinion changed? Looking at this thread, most agree that Johnny wins. But, I wanted to add a bit. 

      Again, Infinite Rotation doesn't need to be transferred through physical rushes. It can be shot from nail bullets with infinite rotation. It can go through itself. It wins. 

      If you're saying I missed something, please point it out.

      I asked that because you talked about Johnny's infinite rotation bullets as an obvious win when the point was being disputed because it really wasn't.

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    • Still, Tusk takes this. If you guys remember, Johnny can walk at the end of SBR, giving Johnny essentially the best fighting chance he can get.

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    • It's not that obvious given the fact that time stop is still a huge advantage and Tusk can only shortly move during it. If we are taking Johnny's prime then we should be taking Jotaro's prime. If Jotaro stops time he definitely has enough time to do considerable damage. Even with only a few seconds he managed to deal considerable damage to Kira, and Johnny is even frailer. And if they both know about each other's ability, then Jotaro could easily just kill Johnny's horse and by extension his only means of using Act 4. And once again, if they both know about the other's stand then Jotaro won't be foolish and touch Act 4. Now do you see why it's not such a landslide victory? You can say Johnny won, but lower your confidence my guy. Trust me, I can totally see how both sides could be the victor.

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    • No, this is johnny after High Voltage. Plus, Johnny probably can walk for longer in time stop. Johnny wins, pretty easily if he's real smart. At the end of the day, Johnny wins 7/10

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    • erm just here to point out your mistake that Johnny can't move in stoped time. It only seems like tusk 4 can move IF johnny brings it out before time stop.

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    • And besides the point that if we are taking into account how smart Johnny is, then in my opinion Jotaro is even smarter because he is both clever and combat smart. And if they both know about each other's ability, Jotaro will be sure to not touch Tusk. Once again, I can see Jotaro winning and Johnny winning. These kind of discussions are really difficult because both characters have an advantage over the other in some capacity.

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    • Johnny won on VS Battles. Amazingly.

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    • you guys are mentally handicapped if you think jotaro can win

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    • You are handicapped if you can't scroll to see why.

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    • I don't think there's any real argument here. Johnny lost to Dio who has the same stand as Jotaro and is pretty much his equal in all regards (except plot armor oc). Johnny literally has one shot and if that fails he's done. I'm a say that Jotaro wins 9 out of 10 times

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    • bruh diego already knew what johnny can do and could prepare btw have you 2 even read steel ball run it doesnt look like it to me

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    • yalls is some clowns doe ngl on my yeeyees and my supryeeyees

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    • why did this even start the only thing that could stand a chance against act 4 is ger and that is if giorno can reset johnnys whatever to 0 before act 4 is activated/a nail is fired yalls is an entire circus i changed my mfn mind on my momma n my homies from dat hoodz

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    • You sound like a white dad. And maybe, just maybe, this discussion started because it isn't so black and white on who wins?

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    • bruh you probably didnt even watch joe's video on the exact same fight

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    • also it is, johnny wins 1999/2000 times no cap just bread and cheese, that 1 in 2000 chance being if johnny slips on a rock and dies

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    • You probably didn't even read this, since for whatever reason people forget that Jotaro is both faster, stronger, and has time stop which Johnny can't even move for most of.

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    • And I honestly hope people stop replying to this, since 9/10 it's just to say "Johnny wins no questions asked" without even thinking about the possibility that Jotaro has advantages.

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    • Can we just say its a 65/35 match up in Act 4's favor? No situation no nothing. With Act 4's range and properties it wins the majority of the time BUT Star Platinum still could defeat Johnny. I think one of the really early post summed this up. This thread is too long and can we just settle this?

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    • Zodazzle wrote:
      And I honestly hope people stop replying to this, since 9/10 it's just to say "Johnny wins no questions asked" without even thinking about the possibility that Jotaro has advantages.

      Lol sorry I literally just saw this XD

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    • nigga be sayin johnny can barely do anything in ts but is ok with saying jotaro can look around, talk about how reliable koichi is, take a deep breath, scream and only then beat kira up, but still have enough time to pose in just 2 seconds, alright thats fair

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    • joe mamma doe

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    • Tusk act 4 wins because I like his musical reference

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    • Why is this so complicated to u... jotaro can just kill the horse lmao

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    • does jotaro look like the kind of person to kill a horse because his crippled opponent used it to move around since his legs are broken

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    • this is complicated :(

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    • Jotaro might not kill a horse but he would punch it hard enough to bring Johnny off of it.

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    • you literally missed the entire point u black neeg tard poo poo bruh emoji

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    • Bruhwitagun wrote:
      bruh diego already knew what johnny can do and could prepare btw have you 2 even read steel ball run it doesnt look like it to me

      You funny little man. If DIO can prepare so can Jotaro. Fact is Johnny lost against DIO

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    • Larry Capucha wrote:
      Bruhwitagun wrote:
      bruh diego already knew what johnny can do and could prepare btw have you 2 even read steel ball run it doesnt look like it to me
      You funny little man. If DIO can prepare so can Jotaro. Fact is Johnny lost against DIO

      Johnny only lost because Dio knew about Tusk, and he only knew because Valentine told him.

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    • I liked when this was an actual scientific/educated disussion. What happened here lol?

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    • It's hard to be all scientific when regarding a work of fiction, but I digress. I myself am a man of science so going by evidence a)Johnny lost to DIO b) DIO and Jotaro share the same stand. Hypothesis: DIO and Jotaro share the same mental and physical attributes. The only "scientific" conclusion is that Johnny would lose to Jotare the same way. Now, saying that DIO only won because he had prior knowledge is an assumption, very far from being evidence, we simply didn't saw how the fight would go around had that not be the case to state that DIO would have lost and one could very easily assume that Jotaro either a) got some prior knowledge himself or b) can deduce that he must absolutely not get hit by that dangerous looking lazor beam

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    • Your "scientific" method is just as shaky then. You assume that just because Dio and Jotaro have similar Stands that the fight will go the same way and ignore that knowledge of the enemy's power has a tremendous impact on the result of any fight, ignore that Dio and Jotaro have not the same personality and fighting style, think that Jotaro can just deduce the nature of Tusk's power just by watching and so on.

      Johnny canonically has had experience with time Stands because of Mandom, Jotaro has none about Spin. When Johnny shoots, Jotaro only sees a spinning nail: either he blocks the nail and is screwed or avoids the nail and then still doesn't know that the Spin can still go at him, screwing him again. On the contrary, Johnny can stay out of range of Jotaro if Jotaro uses time stop even once, because he can deduce what's happening thanks to his knowledge.

      Even during the canonical Dio v Johnny fight, we see that Dio's knowledge of Tusk allowed him to avoid being touched at least three times. That was three potential victories that were averted because Dio knew the power.

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    • Larry Capucha wrote:
      Bruhwitagun wrote:
      bruh diego already knew what johnny can do and could prepare btw have you 2 even read steel ball run it doesnt look like it to me
      You funny little man. If DIO can prepare so can Jotaro. Fact is Johnny lost against DIO

      yea but how the fuck would jotaro know all about tusk before fighting it you dumb cunt

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    • Bruhwitagun wrote:

      yea but how the fuck would jotaro know all about tusk before fighting it you dumb cunt

      Asking you dumb cunt

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    • Nabukun wrote:
      Your "scientific" method is just as shaky then. You assume that just because Dio and Jotaro have similar Stands that the fight will go the same way and ignore that knowledge of the enemy's power has a tremendous impact on the result of any fight, ignore that Dio and Jotaro have not the same personality and fighting style, think that Jotaro can just deduce the nature of Tusk's power just by watching and so on.

      Johnny canonically has had experience with time Stands because of Mandom, Jotaro has none about Spin. When Johnny shoots, Jotaro only sees a spinning nail: either he blocks the nail and is screwed or avoids the nail and then still doesn't know that the Spin can still go at him, screwing him again. On the contrary, Johnny can stay out of range of Jotaro if Jotaro uses time stop even once, because he can deduce what's happening thanks to his knowledge.

      Even during the canonical Dio v Johnny fight, we see that Dio's knowledge of Tusk allowed him to avoid being touched at least three times. That was three potential victories that were averted because Dio knew the power.

      And you assume that Jotaro can't possibly deduce Johnnys ability. It's all assumptions both yours and mine. The only thing that's factual is that Johnny lost to DIO

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    • And that's a fact that Dio was preemptively warned, and escaped death three times at least because of his knowledge.

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    • Larry Capucha wrote:
      Bruhwitagun wrote:

      yea but how the fuck would jotaro know all about tusk before fighting it you dumb cunt

      Asking you dumb cunt

      "oh look, my enemy just asked about my ability, better tell him all about it!"

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    • Bruhwitagun wrote:

      "oh look, my enemy just asked about my ability, better tell him all about it!"

      Indeed, this a true man's world after all

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    • Nabukun wrote:
      And that's a fact that Dio was preemptively warned, and escaped death three times at least because of his knowledge.

      A fact nonetheless

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    • well really it depends on the stand users experience. Jotaro has more experience with his stand so mabye hed win.

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    • I'm seeing many people saying that because Diego beat Johnny and Dio and Jotaro have the same stand that Jotaro wins, and people giving the counterpoint that Diego knew about Tusk. The thing is, Johnny figured out time stop partway through his fight with Diego, so the knowledge is only an advantage in the first half of the fight. The thing is, Star Platinum: The World during Jotaro's prime is stronger than Za Warudo, because Jotaro beat Dio, a superhuman vampire, whose stand evolved to give him 9 seconds rather than 5. Star Platinum is stronger than The World, and The World, granted with extra info, beat Tusk ACT 4. I think the extra strength, and strategic ability gives Jotaro the edge even without the intel. Jotaro would be able to deduce that he shouldn't get hit by the nails, because he's fought crazy contact based stands before, and Jotaro is shown to be about as smart as Joseph, who was as smart as Kars(not ultimate lifeform), who had an I.Q. of 400. All in all, in a pure stand vs. stand, without taking users into account, Tusk wins because of the spin, remember that DIO got hits on SP:TW with an inferior stand. However, in a battle between Jotaro and Johnny, Jotaro wins because of superior strength, speed, and experience. Just my opinion though.

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    • Zodazzle wrote:
      ...What? Are you seriously comparing speeds by their visible punches in the manga (that are also over a decade apart) rather than their actual stats? Star Platinum has an A, and Tusk Act 4 has a B. Literally look at the stats and there you go. Besides, Star Platinum has been said to exceed the speed of light, and Tusk Act 4 can't apply to that. So it's definite that Star Platinum is faster. Stop digging for evidence of speed in the manga, which keep in mind aren't in motion.


      I don't think this argument has been resolved yet, so I thought I'd put in my piece.
      First off, the fuck are you doing comparing stand stats?! Those aren't just signs of physical strength, so stop using them as such. They can also be used to showcase a stand's ability. This is fact.
      The main argument I'm seeing on Star Platinum's side is that Star pummels Tusk into the ground before Tusk Act 4 activates his Infinite Spin. This is supported by his Stand Stats.

      First off, if you think using stand stats as a reference, broken as they are, is a good idea, then take a look at D4C. Tusk Act 4 beat the living shit out of him and D4C SHARES STATS WITH STAR PLATINUM. You might make the argument 'oh, Valentine was just so shocked at seeing Tusk break his barrier he let is guard down'. This is not true. D4C had time to react and hide further inside the light, and then get totally pummelled. That is fact.

      Another fact, taken directly from the manga: Tusk Act 4 is the embodiment of the infinite rotation. This is also stated as the first line under the 'Infinite Rotation' section of it's powers in this very wiki. Tusk Act 4 does not just control the Infinite Rotation, it is the Infinite Rotation, in a very real sense. This is also why Tusk's Infinite Rotation is seen as an image of the Stand, even when travelling across the floor like in his fight with Diego AU.

      Not to mention the fact that while Johnny always pulls his punches, Jotaro doesn't necessarily ever timestop unless he absolutely needs to. For example, he waited until Crazy Diamond had hit him before he used SP:TW. In that situation, Johnny will come out on top no matter what.

      Also, I've seen earlier in the chat people say that SP:TW stops everything nearby. That is clearly false. It only speeds itself up to be FTL. Examples of this include Pucci being able to move in timestop and whaddya know, Act 4 himself being able to move thanks to the fact that no matter how far you slow down infinite rotation, it will still be infinite. That is certainly how Tusk moved in timestop, taking into account everything else laid out here. Because Tusk and the Infinite Rotation are one and the same, it is simple logic to say that the Infinite Rotation will carry on moving in timestop, if Tusk can. However, Tusk has a limit to the time it can move in timestop, so let's assume that this would either slightly slow down the Infinite Rotation or make sure it can only be transferred by itself for a few of  Jotaro's 'seconds'.

      Edit:

      {

      Just remembered seeing in the chat people saying that Star Platinum is definitively the 'strongest Stand ever'. If this is a quote or fact from around Part 3, please remember that Part 3 was going to be the only part with Stands when Araki made it, when he thought JoJo's would be a trilogy.

      If the quote isn't from Part 3, then the only actual piece of evidence I could find was in Stone Ocean: 'Star Platinum can stop time only for a few seconds. The strongest Stand ability ever.' Take this quote with a grain of salt since this came right after Araki wrote G.E.R in Part 5

      Araki also says that it is the strongest Stand in interviews and that 'only with time control can you beat him'. Firstly, Act 4 has some time control since it can move in timestop. Secondly, if Star Platinum were to get hit by Tusk's rotation in a way that Star could've prevented, then he might not be technically seen as 'beaten' since it wasn't a fair fight. Tusk Act 4 can fall under both of these parameters, as you'll see later.

      }

      As a side note, people take Star Platinum breaking through diamond as a large feat. Diamond does not even remotely equate to an absolute barrier, or the solid 'no' comparable even to the likes of G.E.R that Tusk broke through.

      Finally, I draw my conclusion. Let's just say that both characters went into the fight with killing intent. For the sake of argument, Jotaro stops time before Johnny does anything, since he's the more experienced out of the two. If Star Platinum rushes up and pummels Tusk Act 4 for the entirety of his timestop, or even most of it, Tusk will have been in physical contact with SP. Even if it could move for only a second in stopped time, a second is all it takes to kill Jotaro. As we proved earlier, Tusk Act 4 is the Infinite Rotation in every sense of the word, so he clearly doesn't need to transfer the Spin through his fists. I say this because other people say SP would be crushing him too hard to do anything, but that doesn't make a difference to Tusk Act 4. Thanks to the D4C fight, we know Tusk is at least comparable to a stand with Star Platinum Stats, so even if you want to go down that route of logic, Tusk wouldn't be crushed by Star and would still be able to land a punch on him. Even if Star is way stronger as some people say, that doesn't make a difference since all Johnny needs is any form of physical contact. If you think about it this way, Diego AU throwing knives while in timestop makes the most sense, since he wouldn't have a chance of being affected by the Spin.

      This has been a long one, but I hope I've changed some people's minds on this topic. I've tried to include as much evidence from the manga and respected sources as possible, so hopefully I haven't messed up anything too badly.

      Arigato (Gyro!),

      Riux

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    • RIUX1 wrote:

      Also, I've seen earlier in the chat people say that SP:TW stops everything nearby. That is clearly false. It only speeds itself up to be FTL. Examples of this include Pucci being able to move in timestop and whaddya know, Act 4 himself being able to move thanks to the fact that no matter how far you slow down infinite rotation, it will still be infinite. That is certainly how Tusk moved in timestop, taking into account everything else laid out here.

      This bit hurts my soul. That's not how spacetime works at all. Were Jotaro to speed himself up to lightspeed then he would stop aging and people around him would age at an accelerated rate, the direct oposite of what yer sugesting and much more in line to what pucci actually does. To slow down time you need to be moving in a frame of reference that's able to communicate to a dilating region of space. Pucci moves at exactly the speed of light, even if the speed of light has an actual number asociated to it, it's a physical infinity since you would require either infinite energy or infinite time to achieve it. Tusk can move during time stop because intrinsic angular momentum, commonly known as "spin" is a property of subatomic particles consistant after time factorization thus is subject to the time-independant schrodinger equation

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    • RIUX1 wrote:

      Zodazzle wrote:
      ...What? Are you seriously comparing speeds by their visible punches in the manga (that are also over a decade apart) rather than their actual stats? Star Platinum has an A, and Tusk Act 4 has a B. Literally look at the stats and there you go. Besides, Star Platinum has been said to exceed the speed of light, and Tusk Act 4 can't apply to that. So it's definite that Star Platinum is faster. Stop digging for evidence of speed in the manga, which keep in mind aren't in motion.

      I don't think this argument has been resolved yet, so I thought I'd put in my piece.
      First off, the fuck are you doing comparing stand stats?! Those aren't just signs of physical strength, so stop using them as such. They can also be used to showcase a stand's ability. This is fact.
      The main argument I'm seeing on Star Platinum's side is that Star pummels Tusk into the ground before Tusk Act 4 activates his Infinite Spin. This is supported by his Stand Stats.

      First off, if you think using stand stats as a reference, broken as they are, is a good idea, then take a look at D4C. Tusk Act 4 beat the living shit out of him and D4C SHARES STATS WITH STAR PLATINUM. You might make the argument 'oh, Valentine was just so shocked at seeing Tusk break his barrier he let is guard down'. This is not true. D4C had time to react and hide further inside the light, and then get totally pummelled. That is fact.

      Another fact, taken directly from the manga: Tusk Act 4 is the embodiment of the infinite rotation. This is also stated as the first line under the 'Infinite Rotation' section of it's powers in this very wiki. Tusk Act 4 does not just control the Infinite Rotation, it is the Infinite Rotation, in a very real sense. This is also why Tusk's Infinite Rotation is seen as an image of the Stand, even when travelling across the floor like in his fight with Diego AU.

      Not to mention the fact that while Johnny always pulls his punches, Jotaro doesn't necessarily ever timestop unless he absolutely needs to. For example, he waited until Crazy Diamond had hit him before he used SP:TW. In that situation, Johnny will come out on top no matter what.

      Also, I've seen earlier in the chat people say that SP:TW stops everything nearby. That is clearly false. It only speeds itself up to be FTL. Examples of this include Pucci being able to move in timestop and whaddya know, Act 4 himself being able to move thanks to the fact that no matter how far you slow down infinite rotation, it will still be infinite. That is certainly how Tusk moved in timestop, taking into account everything else laid out here. Because Tusk and the Infinite Rotation are one and the same, it is simple logic to say that the Infinite Rotation will carry on moving in timestop, if Tusk can. However, Tusk has a limit to the time it can move in timestop, so let's assume that this would either slightly slow down the Infinite Rotation or make sure it can only be transferred by itself for a few of  Jotaro's 'seconds'.

      Edit:

      {

      Just remembered seeing in the chat people saying that Star Platinum is definitively the 'strongest Stand ever'. If this is a quote or fact from around Part 3, please remember that Part 3 was going to be the only part with Stands when Araki made it, when he thought JoJo's would be a trilogy.

      If the quote isn't from Part 3, then the only actual piece of evidence I could find was in Stone Ocean: 'Star Platinum can stop time only for a few seconds. The strongest Stand ability ever.' Take this quote with a grain of salt since this came right after Araki wrote G.E.R in Part 5

      Araki also says that it is the strongest Stand in interviews and that 'only with time control can you beat him'. Firstly, Act 4 has some time control since it can move in timestop. Secondly, if Star Platinum were to get hit by Tusk's rotation in a way that Star could've prevented, then he might not be technically seen as 'beaten' since it wasn't a fair fight. Tusk Act 4 can fall under both of these parameters, as you'll see later.

      }

      As a side note, people take Star Platinum breaking through diamond as a large feat. Diamond does not even remotely equate to an absolute barrier, or the solid 'no' comparable even to the likes of G.E.R that Tusk broke through.

      Finally, I draw my conclusion. Let's just say that both characters went into the fight with killing intent. For the sake of argument, Jotaro stops time before Johnny does anything, since he's the more experienced out of the two. If Star Platinum rushes up and pummels Tusk Act 4 for the entirety of his timestop, or even most of it, Tusk will have been in physical contact with SP. Even if it could move for only a second in stopped time, a second is all it takes to kill Jotaro. As we proved earlier, Tusk Act 4 is the Infinite Rotation in every sense of the word, so he clearly doesn't need to transfer the Spin through his fists. I say this because other people say SP would be crushing him too hard to do anything, but that doesn't make a difference to Tusk Act 4. Thanks to the D4C fight, we know Tusk is at least comparable to a stand with Star Platinum Stats, so even if you want to go down that route of logic, Tusk wouldn't be crushed by Star and would still be able to land a punch on him. Even if Star is way stronger as some people say, that doesn't make a difference since all Johnny needs is any form of physical contact. If you think about it this way, Diego AU throwing knives while in timestop makes the most sense, since he wouldn't have a chance of being affected by the Spin.

      This has been a long one, but I hope I've changed some people's minds on this topic. I've tried to include as much evidence from the manga and respected sources as possible, so hopefully I haven't messed up anything too badly.

      Arigato (Gyro!),

      Riux

      Well, well, well, this is a lot to unpack.

      For 1, with the stand stats, they are inaccurate, but they aren't neccesarily bullshit. Star Platinum's A and D4C's A can be different. A doesn't correlate to a specific amount of force. However, I agree that stand stats don 't make a lot of sense. They don't mean that D4C is just as powerful as Star Platinum.

      For 2, what is your argument about time stop even saying? This doesn't make sense. You say that time stop speeds up the user, but how does that make the user control gravity's effect on themself? Dio does that multiple times, and his and Jotaro's time stops are the same. Time stop, get this, stops time. It's in the name. After you throw something it stops moving, after you punch someone they stop moving. Jotaro was able to use a magnet to move his finger, so do magnets pull things at lightspeed? Pucci wasn't able to move in stopped time, his Made In Heaven sped up time to the point where time stop lasted only an instant. Also, your argument for ACT 4 being immune to it is contradictory. Speeding up the user doesn't slow down anything else, so ACT 4 moving in stopped time, by your argument, would be speeding up the same way. If you can't stop infinity, then why can ACT 4 only move his eye's and not punch while time is stopped? That sounds to me like Diego is stopping infinity.

      For 3, the wiki isn't written by Araki. It is written by people on this site. The wiki stating that Tuck ACT 4 is the embodiement of the infinite rotation is from fans. If anything, Ball Breaker is the embodiement of Spin in general. The infinite rotation is a power of Tusk ACT 4. Tusk itself isn't the spin, Tusk is a perfect conduit of Spin, like Hermit Purple is for Hamon. Tusk makes your Spin stronger, and the only thing stronger than the Golden Spin is the Infinite Rotation. When does he conduct the infinite rotation through a touch? Stop with your headcanon bullshit and state a specific chapter or copy/paste a manga panel. There are multiple free sources for reading JOJO online. Otherwise, don't make an argument you can't back up, that goes against specific statements from the manga and Araki himself. Ever heard of the "word of god" rule? If Araki is talking about Star Platinum being the strongest, right after GER, well, he says himself that he forgets his past work. But, when he states that Ball Breaker is the stand of the Spin, that means that Tusk isn't Spin, it's literally stated to just be a perfect conduit, that amplifys Spin.It's in the same part, part 7, Steel Ball Run, so it should stay at least semi-consistent, if trends set by other parts stay. If you can't explain your point correctly, then point people to where your point is stated or shown. For example, Star Platinum is shown to be faster than Silver Chariot, sheen when Star Platinum had enough speed to best Dio's The World while Dio stated that if Polnareff was a little faster (which would give him more force), then he would've killed DIO, and Silver Chariot is Shown to be faster than light, as seen when he creates afterimages which can be calulated to be beyond lightspeed with real math given the amount of afterimages he creates, and it is also shown in the Hanged Man fight, when Silver Chariot outspeeds a character stated to be lightspeed. Tusk ACT 4 has no feats or statements saying that he's lightspeed, other than your own. Star Platinum is shown taking blows from The World, and taking them like a champ, while dealing greater damage to The World, showing that SP is either stronger than The World, more durable then The World, or both. Unless SP:TW is affected by Spin through contact, which again, site a chapter or show a panel, then Star Platinum is victorious. Jotaro isn't stupid either, he figures out opposing stands without much trouble. Kakyoin is smarter, but Jotaro is no slouch. He has fought opponets with OHKO abilities before, and it is reasonable to assume that he could figure out that everything this stand touches, presumablle including the ground if, like you say, he conducts the Infinite Rotation with mere contact, starts spinning, then maybe he should touch the stand and instead use SP:TW's stop time to blitz and pummel Johnny. Or throw a rock at him, like how he beat the user of The Sun. Jotaro has seen literally invincible stands before, he has a tendency to go after the user if he can get past the stand, as seen with Yellow Temperance.

      I know this might sound like I'm being an ass, but your argument seems to contradict itself. Please, clarify your points that are contradictory if you meant something else, and please show statements or manga panels/chapter numbers/anime episodes to back up your argument. Or, be specific in when these feats take place, so that it's easy to find them if someone wants to make a counterpoint. Don't just use headcanon arguments of "well this is how I think this stand actually works", figure out the real abilities from the manga and the author.

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    • Also, stand stats don't account for abilities. Otherwise Cream and The Hand would have an A in destructive potential, Emperor would have an A in precision, and Super Fly would have question marks because it's speed, precision and power are equivalent to whatever attacked it.

      Here are some more specifics for the stand stats:

      Star Platinum and SIlver Chariot both have an A in speed, but Star Platinum is faster.

      Star Platinum, The World, THE WORLD and D4C all have the same durability as Super Fly, Yellow Temperance and Sheer Heart Attack, which is an A, but only Super Fly, Yellow Temperance and Sheer Heart Attack are invincible.

      Star Platinum and The World both have an A in Power, Durability and Speed, but Star Platinum is stronger and has better durability, while The World is faster, as seen in their Ora/Muda clash.

      Range can mean area it affects or distance away from user, best seen with Geb and Justice. Both have an A in range, but those mean different things. Geb can act from over 4 kilometers away, but Justice covers a small cemetary. Enya has to be close to Justice, but it affects a very wide range of space, while Geb is very small, but acts very far away from the user.

      Sheer Heart Attack and Geb both have an A in range, but Kira had to be much closer than 4 kilometers to use Sheer Heart Attack against Koichi and Jotaro.

      I've seen bullets go much farther than 50 meters, which is the maximum range for Echoes ACT 1. In fact, the world record for a 9mm pistol to still hit his target was 1800 meters, or 1.8 kilometers! (That being said, average effective range for an average person is about 30 meters, and average effective range for trained police officers or soldiers in the military is 100 meters on a nonmoving target). However, both Echoes ACT 1 and Sex Pistols have a range of B, with Sex Pistols clarifying it's range to be that of the bullet.

      The World and Echoes ACT 3 both have a range of C, and The World's effective range is 10 meters. Now, if, like you said, stand stats take abilities into account, then Echoes ACT 3's range is 5 meters. Otherwise, it's closer to 10 meters, as shown when Sheer Heart Attack had to move closer to Koichi after ACT 3 punched it before it stopped moving. 

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    • Im just here to say that we shouldn't trust Araki and his retcons when he says things like

      "JOSEPH HAD HERMIT PURPLE IN PART 2"

      So ima go ahead and think that Riux actually had a big brain because he didn't believe in part 6's infamous line of

      "STAR PLATINUM STOP TIME, STRONGEST STAND EVER"

      In conclusion, instead of believing the "word of god" rule (I laughed when I saw it) because its the same thing as believing Star Platinum can only be beating by his kids. (one of his interviews)

      (btw im 200% sure that Jotaro wouldn't cut his leg off if Johnny shoots a nail into the ground. Also tusk4's infinite rotation is conducted through contact because... you know that moment when D4C is stuck in the ground BECAUSE TUSK 4 PUMMELED HIM INTO IT. heck johnny even has the reaction ability to deflect knives in a instant after stop time.)

      (btw n2. Johnny could have shot toenails at D4C if he missed his last shot, just a plothole)

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    • With the stuff Araki stated, I specifically said that Araki himself stated he forgets things. He does however keep things consistent within the same part. I specifically state that, in that case, and by proxy statement that imply things between parts are inconsistent. If you read what I said, I say that what Araki says is primarily consistent within a single part.

      With the spin being transferred by contact, my question is where it is stated or shown that mere contact with Tusk ACT 4 conducts the Infinite Rotation, rather than being struck by Tusk ACT 4 or contact with something already spinnig.

      Also, why are you so confident that Jotaro would remove a limb to remove the Infinite Rotation? He considered it to remove Yellow Temperance. Why wouldn't he, given the fact that it spreads quickly?

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    • Imadeanaccounttotalktoyou wrote:
      Im just here to say that we shouldn't trust Araki and his retcons when he says things like

      "JOSEPH HAD HERMIT PURPLE IN PART 2"

      So ima go ahead and think that Riux actually had a big brain because he didn't believe in part 6's infamous line of

      "STAR PLATINUM STOP TIME, STRONGEST STAND EVER"

      In conclusion, instead of believing the "word of god" rule (I laughed when I saw it) because its the same thing as believing Star Platinum can only be beating by his kids. (one of his interviews)

      (btw im 200% sure that Jotaro wouldn't cut his leg off if Johnny shoots a nail into the ground. Also tusk4's infinite rotation is conducted through contact because... you know that moment when D4C is stuck in the ground BECAUSE TUSK 4 PUMMELED HIM INTO IT. heck johnny even has the reaction ability to deflect knives in a instant after stop time.)

      (btw n2. Johnny could have shot toenails at D4C if he missed his last shot, just a plothole)

      Believe in what Araki says damn it, you don't know more about a fictional world than what the creator of said fictional world knows. It's like when J.K Rowling stated in an interview that Dumbledore was gay and people went ballistics over that. She made tha damn character and she can add on things as she pleases. You can interpret it in many ways, but don't be as pendantic as to believe that somehow your word is more relevant than Araki's. Personally I think he meant SP is the strongest "natural" stand, meaning no requiem and no heaven

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    • Larry Capucha wrote:
      Imadeanaccounttotalktoyou wrote:
      Im just here to say that we shouldn't trust Araki and his retcons when he says things like

      "JOSEPH HAD HERMIT PURPLE IN PART 2"

      So ima go ahead and think that Riux actually had a big brain because he didn't believe in part 6's infamous line of

      "STAR PLATINUM STOP TIME, STRONGEST STAND EVER"

      In conclusion, instead of believing the "word of god" rule (I laughed when I saw it) because its the same thing as believing Star Platinum can only be beating by his kids. (one of his interviews)

      (btw im 200% sure that Jotaro wouldn't cut his leg off if Johnny shoots a nail into the ground. Also tusk4's infinite rotation is conducted through contact because... you know that moment when D4C is stuck in the ground BECAUSE TUSK 4 PUMMELED HIM INTO IT. heck johnny even has the reaction ability to deflect knives in a instant after stop time.)

      (btw n2. Johnny could have shot toenails at D4C if he missed his last shot, just a plothole)

      Believe in what Araki says damn it, you don't know more about a fictional world than what the creator of said fictional world knows. It's like when J.K Rowling stated in an interview that Dumbledore was gay and people went ballistics over that. She made tha damn character and she can add on things as she pleases. You can interpret it in many ways, but don't be as pendantic as to believe that somehow your word is more relevant than Araki's. Personally I think he meant SP is the strongest "natural" stand, meaning no requiem and no heaven

      That's a fair point. Also, why does it matter that Johnny had the reation time to deflect time stop knives? Is Jotaro throwing knives now? When you say things like "We shouldn't believe Araki" that shows you think you know more than the creator. Yes, Araki has stated multiple times that he forgets what happened in previous parts, hence why some things are inconsistent. However, when it is in the same part, isn't a retcon, and is literally shown, like the fact that Tusk is NOT the stand of the Spin, nor is Tusk made of Spin, which is what RIUX1 said, which was the point I disproved. I didn't say something like, "Well, Araki stated that SP:TW is the strongest stand ever, so Jotaro wins every versus battle (procedes to snort and push glasses up)". Araki says he changes things between parts, and that he forgets, but he keeps thing consistent between parts, and when it isn't he explains why, such as the issue with Hermit Purple 2. That statement about Star Platinum could be talking about natural stands, like Larry suggested, or it could mean physically strongest, or strongest known at the time, or strongest seen in part 6 as of that chapter. It doesn't matter what your opinion is, it doesn't matter what you think, what matters are the facts stated by Araki and shown by the manga. Stop suggesting that you know more about a world Araki made up than Araki does, because unless you're his editor, a family member or his brainstorming page given human form, you don't. Stick to facts.

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    • JosephFanboy wrote:

      Larry Capucha wrote:
      Imadeanaccounttotalktoyou wrote:
      Im just here to say that we shouldn't trust Araki and his retcons when he says things like

      "JOSEPH HAD HERMIT PURPLE IN PART 2"

      So ima go ahead and think that Riux actually had a big brain because he didn't believe in part 6's infamous line of

      "STAR PLATINUM STOP TIME, STRONGEST STAND EVER"

      In conclusion, instead of believing the "word of god" rule (I laughed when I saw it) because its the same thing as believing Star Platinum can only be beating by his kids. (one of his interviews)

      (btw im 200% sure that Jotaro wouldn't cut his leg off if Johnny shoots a nail into the ground. Also tusk4's infinite rotation is conducted through contact because... you know that moment when D4C is stuck in the ground BECAUSE TUSK 4 PUMMELED HIM INTO IT. heck johnny even has the reaction ability to deflect knives in a instant after stop time.)

      (btw n2. Johnny could have shot toenails at D4C if he missed his last shot, just a plothole)

      Believe in what Araki says damn it, you don't know more about a fictional world than what the creator of said fictional world knows. It's like when J.K Rowling stated in an interview that Dumbledore was gay and people went ballistics over that. She made tha damn character and she can add on things as she pleases. You can interpret it in many ways, but don't be as pendantic as to believe that somehow your word is more relevant than Araki's. Personally I think he meant SP is the strongest "natural" stand, meaning no requiem and no heaven

      That's a fair point. Also, why does it matter that Johnny had the reation time to deflect time stop knives? Is Jotaro throwing knives now? When you say things like "We shouldn't believe Araki" that shows you think you know more than the creator. Yes, Araki has stated multiple times that he forgets what happened in previous parts, hence why some things are inconsistent. However, when it is in the same part, isn't a retcon, and is literally shown, like the fact that Tusk is NOT the stand of the Spin, nor is Tusk made of Spin, which is what RIUX1 said, which was the point I disproved. I didn't say something like, "Well, Araki stated that SP:TW is the strongest stand ever, so Jotaro wins every versus battle (procedes to snort and push glasses up)". Araki says he changes things between parts, and that he forgets, but he keeps thing consistent between parts, and when it isn't he explains why, such as the issue with Hermit Purple 2. That statement about Star Platinum could be talking about natural stands, like Larry suggested, or it could mean physically strongest, or strongest known at the time, or strongest seen in part 6 as of that chapter. It doesn't matter what your opinion is, it doesn't matter what you think, what matters are the facts stated by Araki and shown by the manga. Stop suggesting that you know more about a world Araki made up than Araki does, because unless you're his editor, a family member or his brainstorming page given human form, you don't. Stick to facts.

      To be fair, Araki has stated before that the fans know more about Jojo than he does, because of how much he changes things and forgets between parts. It's not unreasonable for the fans to interpret things beyond Araki's words.

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    • Kingasdfg wrote:

      JosephFanboy wrote:

      Larry Capucha wrote:
      Imadeanaccounttotalktoyou wrote:
      Im just here to say that we shouldn't trust Araki and his retcons when he says things like

      "JOSEPH HAD HERMIT PURPLE IN PART 2"

      So ima go ahead and think that Riux actually had a big brain because he didn't believe in part 6's infamous line of

      "STAR PLATINUM STOP TIME, STRONGEST STAND EVER"

      In conclusion, instead of believing the "word of god" rule (I laughed when I saw it) because its the same thing as believing Star Platinum can only be beating by his kids. (one of his interviews)

      (btw im 200% sure that Jotaro wouldn't cut his leg off if Johnny shoots a nail into the ground. Also tusk4's infinite rotation is conducted through contact because... you know that moment when D4C is stuck in the ground BECAUSE TUSK 4 PUMMELED HIM INTO IT. heck johnny even has the reaction ability to deflect knives in a instant after stop time.)

      (btw n2. Johnny could have shot toenails at D4C if he missed his last shot, just a plothole)

      Believe in what Araki says damn it, you don't know more about a fictional world than what the creator of said fictional world knows. It's like when J.K Rowling stated in an interview that Dumbledore was gay and people went ballistics over that. She made tha damn character and she can add on things as she pleases. You can interpret it in many ways, but don't be as pendantic as to believe that somehow your word is more relevant than Araki's. Personally I think he meant SP is the strongest "natural" stand, meaning no requiem and no heaven
      That's a fair point. Also, why does it matter that Johnny had the reation time to deflect time stop knives? Is Jotaro throwing knives now? When you say things like "We shouldn't believe Araki" that shows you think you know more than the creator. Yes, Araki has stated multiple times that he forgets what happened in previous parts, hence why some things are inconsistent. However, when it is in the same part, isn't a retcon, and is literally shown, like the fact that Tusk is NOT the stand of the Spin, nor is Tusk made of Spin, which is what RIUX1 said, which was the point I disproved. I didn't say something like, "Well, Araki stated that SP:TW is the strongest stand ever, so Jotaro wins every versus battle (procedes to snort and push glasses up)". Araki says he changes things between parts, and that he forgets, but he keeps thing consistent between parts, and when it isn't he explains why, such as the issue with Hermit Purple 2. That statement about Star Platinum could be talking about natural stands, like Larry suggested, or it could mean physically strongest, or strongest known at the time, or strongest seen in part 6 as of that chapter. It doesn't matter what your opinion is, it doesn't matter what you think, what matters are the facts stated by Araki and shown by the manga. Stop suggesting that you know more about a world Araki made up than Araki does, because unless you're his editor, a family member or his brainstorming page given human form, you don't. Stick to facts.

      To be fair, Araki has stated before that the fans know more about Jojo than he does, because of how much he changes things and forgets between parts. It's not unreasonable for the fans to interpret things beyond Araki's words.

      It's not unreasonable to have your own interpretation, but it's wrong to assume that your specific interpretation is correct. The argument that I disproved had the entire outcome of the battle based on one specific interpretation of Tusk ACT 4. Also, while  Araki does change things between parts, changes things between the beginning and end of the part and forgets netween parts, the specific interpretation that I disproved was contradicted by something in the same fight. Ball Breaker and Tusk ACT 4 were both introduced while fighting D4C: Love Train. When the interpretation is contradicted by something shown in the manga, rather than stated, thats when it falls apart. When your argument for a battle is purely based on headcanon, then it becomes a flame war of "well I think this, so I'm right and you're stupid", and that becomes toxic real fast. You should base your arguments on the most recent evidence given, and not on personal opinions. If the entire fanbase has created a "best interpretation", thats one thing, but when it's your opinion vs. feats and shown data, then the debate falls apart and devolves to personal attacks, and often times someones mother gets insulted. As I said before, base your argumentss on facts.

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    • I'm agreeing with you for the most part, I mostly just want to disregard Araki's statements as a "Word of God", because he has horrible memory and inconsistency problems. I think we need to use facts and feats instead of statements from Araki.

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    • Yeah, I'll admit the "word of god" thing could have been put a lot differently to get the point across in a better way. I do however think that what Araki says should be believed in some specific cases, such as when he is clearing up plotholes or when he makes statements about a specific arc made during that arc. My point was that you shouldn't assume that your headcanon is truth. Tusk ACT 4 doesn't conduct Spin through touch alone.

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    • Also, I just want to give a bit more evidence as to Tusk ACT 4 doesn't conduct Infinite Rotation through contact. Something that is already spinning will cause other things to spin. That is seen when the spinning leg that hits Johnny causes Johnny to spin. The difference is, Tuck ACT 4 has to start something spinning before it will coduct. When Johnny touched Tusk ACT 4, he didn't start spinning, but we know from the leg incident that Johnny isn't immune to the Infinite Rotation. Therefore, merely touching Tusk ACT 4 isn't enough to start spinning. He either has to punch you, hit you with a nail, or you have to touch something that is already spinning.

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    • yes it fuckin does are you retarded

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    • Bruhwitagun wrote: yes it fuckin does are you retarded

      Prove it. Show me a manga panel, or state a chapter.

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    • Here ya go JosephFanboy

      Screenshot 2019-09-27 at 6.11.11 AM
      infinite spin started after this
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    • After a punch. Which was my point from the beginning. From the beginning, I’ve been saying it’s not just contact, it’s conducted through a punch. My exact words were “He either has to punch you, hit you with a nail, or you have to touch something that is already spinning.” Thanks for proving my point though!

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    • He shoots a nail.

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    • Time stop. Dodge. If he catches the bullet, which is something he’s been known to do, he cuts off whatever is spinning, and then dodges any further nails.

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    • Tusk ACT4 doesn't stop in time stop. He can catch like 7 bullets, but then he would die.

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        • Ability Negation: Due to the properties of the Infinite Rotation, ACT4 is capable of negating through various abilities, whether it's on a level of multi-dimensional barriers, gravity, or stopped time, ACT4 will not be affected by these abilities when imbued with the Infinite Rotation; but only ACT4 can do this, not Johnny himself.
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    • Johnny shoots a few bullets, and the game's over.

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    • Also, Jotaro would need to walk without an arm or leg. If he cuts off his leg or arm, there would be bleeding. Star Platinum would also be damaged.

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    • For one, Jotaro can dodge nail bullets fairly easily, given time stop as well as the fact that Star Platinum is above the speed of light. Johnny shooting a few bullets means nothing, because unless thay are the nails, then Star Platinum can catch it. If it is, he can dodge. Also, ACT 4 can only move for an instant during time stop. Not infinitely. If Star Platinum is damaged due to Jotaro cutting of a hand, (not an arm, because the only way a nail bullet hits is if SP:TW catches it, because he's over the speed of light) then he just kills Johnny slightly slower. Still only takes one punch to donut Johnny. Unless Tusk ACT 4 is right next to Johnny, then Johnny dies immediately. The thing is, after Jotaro dodges a bullet or 2, then Johnny will send Tusk ACT 4 after him, and then Jotaro stops time and blitzes Johnny, while avoiding Tusk.

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    • JosephFanboy wrote: For one, Jotaro can dodge nail bullets fairly easily, given time stop as well as the fact that Star Platinum is above the speed of light. Johnny shooting a few bullets means nothing, because unless thay are the nails, then Star Platinum can catch it. If it is, he can dodge. Also, ACT 4 can only move for an instant during time stop. Not infinitely. If Star Platinum is damaged due to Jotaro cutting of a hand, (not an arm, because the only way a nail bullet hits is if SP:TW catches it, because he's over the speed of light) then he just kills Johnny slightly slower. Still only takes one punch to donut Johnny. Unless Tusk ACT 4 is right next to Johnny, then Johnny dies immediately. The thing is, after Jotaro dodges a bullet or 2, then Johnny will send Tusk ACT 4 after him, and then Jotaro stops time and blitzes Johnny, while avoiding Tusk.

      I don't really trust that Star Platinum is faster than light, because if he was he would've easily been able to beat Made In Heaven, but even disregarding that, assuming Star Platinum is fast enough to dodge a bullet, Jotaro isn't. Johnny would more likely aim at Jotaro where upon Jotaro's only choices are to either block or catch the bullet, or let it hit Jotaro.

      It's also greatly out of character for Jotaro to cut off a limb to survive an attack. He'd more likely try to tough it out and find a way to cancel it, like he did during the Yellow Temperance fight.

      Don't forget, even if Johnny doesn't directly hit his target, he can redirect the infinite spin through inorganic things, like he did to Diego on the bridge.

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    • Well, as I said in another point “For example, Star Platinum is shown to be faster than Silver Chariot, sheen when Star Platinum had enough speed to best Dio's The World while Dio stated that if Polnareff was a little faster (which would give him more force), then he would've killed DIO, and Silver Chariot is Shown to be faster than light, as seen when he creates afterimages which can be calulated to be beyond lightspeed with real math given the amount of afterimages he creates, and it is also shown in the Hanged Man fight, when Silver Chariot outspeeds a character stated to be light speed.” Also, if Jotaro stops time and speed blitzes Johnny then it doesn’t matter if he can’t dodge the bullet by himself. Also, Jotaro can use time stop to avoid bullets. Tusk can only move for an instant, and Johnny has to shoot the nails, Tusk only gives him the ability to shoot them.

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    • That's false equivalence. Silver Chariot never reaches light speed. During the Hanged Man fight, Polnareff specifically states that Silver Chariot ISN'T fast enough to keep up with the Hanged Man, and can only hit it if he knows where it's going (a baseball player can hit a baseball moving at 90mph, but they aren't swinging the bat at 90mph).

      I don't know where you got the math about Silver Chariot's after-images, but it's untrue. While it is a speed feat unmatched in the series, it's not even a 10th of the speed of light. Araki loves to exaggerate speed, particularly Star Platinum's, but there are no feats to back up going that fast.

      Distance is a major player here as well. You're right in saying that Jotaro could dodge the nail bullet and blitz Johnny if he stopped time, but that's assuming Johnny is within range. Star Platinum can only reach up to 2 meters away from Jotaro, and even if he moves in stopped time, he can probably only go, at most, 9 or 10 meters further before the time stop runs out. Tusk ACT 4 doesn't have any range limit, but assuming that the nail bullets have the same range as ACT 2, then Johnny can still be up to 20 meters away, well outside of Star Platinum's punching range.

      Johnny can position himself too far away for Jotaro to hit, even if he stops time. Plus, unless Jotaro already knows how ACT 4 works, he wouldn't waste the time stop to dodge it. He'd more likely try to grab it, which would then imbue the spin into him.

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    • Well for one, Hanged Man was started to be faster than light speed, and even if Silver Chariot isn’t faster than him, he still managed to slice an opponent going over light speed. The fact that he didn’t know when Hanged Man would move , only where, means than he is at least close to Hanged Man’s speed. Baseball players are able to see the wind up of a strike, but there is no visible indicators of Hanged Man’s movement before he moves. For the range, a stand jump against the ground can blast Jotaro very close to Johnny in less than 5 seconds. Also, Jotaro has been seen throwing improvised weapons at people he can get close to, like the user of The Sun. For Tusk’s range, we haven’t seen a limit, doesn’t mean there isn’t one, but it’s still much further than SP. As for Jotaro catching the bullets, he didn’t catch Ratt’s bullets, he dodged them. Why wouldn’t he do the same with nail bullets that he doesn’t know the effect of?

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    • But... he did? Every time Silver Chariot hits the Hanged Man, it's because he forces him to move, like when he kicked sand in the eyes of the kid or the beggars. So both times Polnareff knew exactly where and when the Hanged Man was going to move. That was essential for winning the fight.

      I'm not so sure about the Stand-jump thing, because Jotaro only ever uses it in one fight and we're never given a proper frame of time for how quickly it moves, but I doubt it's as fast as that. If Jotaro could easily leap 20 meters so quickly, he would've done so when he was trying to get to Kira at the end of DiU.

      When Jotaro fought Ratt, he DID catch it's bullets at first. It dissolved his hand and Josuke had to fix him. Josuke even comments on how he's glad his and Jotaro's personalities are so different, that Jotaro would try to catch it while Josuke blocked it with something else. Jotaro only tried avoiding Ratt's darts after he tried catching them first. This points to Jotaro most likely trying to do the same with ACT 4 and would result in him getting locked in the infinite spin.

      Also ACT 4 has an A in range, which usually indicates a Stand as having either no range limit, or being limited by something other than immediate distance (Red Hot Chili Peppers being limited by electricity or Moody Blues limited by it's replay).

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    • ACT 4’s infinite rotation has no range limit, so there is your A in range. As for the speed, Silver Chariot still had to hit a very small moving target going faster than light speed, and we see in the anime that he only started moving after Hanged Man left the dudes eye. Jotaro uses stand jumps in multiple fights, Geb and The World just off the top of my head. Jotaro can cut his hand off, or the fingers he caught the bullets with, then dodge the other bullets.

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    • Just realized I’m an idiot and didn’t clarify my point with the stand jumps. Specifically, we see Jotaro and DIO go an absurd distance with their stand jumps, way more than 20 meters.

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    • What I'm trying to get at is that, while it's certainly possible for Jotaro to win the fight, it would require him to behave in ways that are out of character. It's far from impossible, but it's but as likely as Johnny pulling out ahead. Like you said, there are a lot of ways for Jotaro to avoid the infinite rotation, like dodging or stopping time and leaping with Star Platinum, but Jotaro generally doesn't fight that way, so I'd give the advantage to Johnny.

      I'd say Johnny wins 6/10 times.

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    • I say the exact opposite, slightly in favor of Jotaro, because of how powerful SP:TW is. It’s one punch wins the battle either way, but Star Platinum is much faster than Tusk

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    • JosephFanboy wrote:

      Bruhwitagun wrote: yes it fuckin does are you retarded

      Prove it. Show me a manga panel, or state a chapter.

      shut up nigga yaint even read part 7 my nigga u mf niggarundayo o nem niggas no cappupinyatta mondatta brazzas over heavens door on em niggas

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    • imagine if Star Platinum punches tusk but its blocked by tusks fist and it starts spinning

      i'll actually say 8/10 because act 3 is so op for traveling

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    • Just to prove a point I made earlier in this thread, I’ll prove Silver Chariot is many times faster than light. See, a human’s peak reaction speed in 13 milliseconds. It takes 13 milliseconds of seeing an object to visualize it. Therefore, in order to be invisible, you would have to move your shoulder width to the side in less than 13 milliseconds to be effectively invisible to the human eye. If you move to the side, then pause for 13 milliseconds to be visualised, then move back and do the same, you would make a single copy, that would flicker out of existence for exactly the amount of time you are moving. So, if you can move in a couple nanoseconds, yoctoseconds, or zeptoseconds, all absurdly small units of time, you can be effectively 2 of you at any given time. Your mirror image last for exactly 13 milliseconds unless you move back. The issue is when you get more than one afterimage. You can only have 2 at a time, proven by the fact that your image updates every 13 milliseconds, and if you move to 3rd position then your 13 milliseconds of the 1st image ends, leaving you with two again. However, we see in this image that there are 7 Silver Chariots, one real and 6 mirrors. The only way this is possible is if Silver Chariot is moving fast enough to gain enough mass to warp space, giving a visual inversion, mirroring the image, giving you 4. He then has to bend space over again, making the light refract over bent space to give the full seven. Then, SC has to move fast enough to do this while stopping for 13 millisecond intervals, means than his acceleration is absurd. In order to have a gravitational force that a human would feel, which would be required to warp the path of light even a tiny bit, you would have to have the mass of Pluto’s smaller moon Deimos, which is 1,476,188,406,600,740 kilograms. If we assume that Silver Chariot without his armor is the same weight as Polnareff, which is reasonable based on his size, that Silver Chariot is about 78 kilograms. Based on the calculation of special relativity, the speed required for the relative mass change to even barely warp space would be 1545794708.59 times the speed of light! Even if SIlver Chariot weighed 100,000 times Polnareff without the armor, then he would still be moving 1,545.794708.59 times the speed of light. While this is not quite dense enough to create a black hole, this is still absurdly fast, dense, and massive. The thing is, this is a very conservative estimate for the mass required to warp space how Silver Chariot does, and it could very well require tens of times, maybe even hundreds of times greater masses, and therefore speeds, depending on how much space is warping. Silver Chariot isn’t only faster than light, he is so absurdly fast that, to make his mirror images possible, his movement should be causing nuclear explosions. The only explanation for why he isn’t is because he’s a stand, so I guess he can break the rules. And, as I proved earlier, Star Platinum is faster than Silver Chariot, as shown in the battle against DIO and The World. Star Platinum is most definitely not over 1.5 million times slower than Silver Chariot, therefore Star Platinum is also faster than the speed of light. Tusk has never been shown anywhere near that fast.

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    • i cant be fucked to read your pointless garbage but i already know youre wrong so ding dong you are wrong

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    • JosephFanboy wrote: Just to prove a point I made earlier in this thread, I’ll prove Silver Chariot is many times faster than light. See, a human’s peak reaction speed in 13 milliseconds. It takes 13 milliseconds of seeing an object to visualize it. Therefore, in order to be invisible, you would have to move your shoulder width to the side in less than 13 milliseconds to be effectively invisible to the human eye. If you move to the side, then pause for 13 milliseconds to be visualised, then move back and do the same, you would make a single copy, that would flicker out of existence for exactly the amount of time you are moving. So, if you can move in a couple nanoseconds, yoctoseconds, or zeptoseconds, all absurdly small units of time, you can be effectively 2 of you at any given time. Your mirror image last for exactly 13 milliseconds unless you move back. The issue is when you get more than one afterimage. You can only have 2 at a time, proven by the fact that your image updates every 13 milliseconds, and if you move to 3rd position then your 13 milliseconds of the 1st image ends, leaving you with two again. However, we see in this image that there are 7 Silver Chariots, one real and 6 mirrors. The only way this is possible is if Silver Chariot is moving fast enough to gain enough mass to warp space, giving a visual inversion, mirroring the image, giving you 4. He then has to bend space over again, making the light refract over bent space to give the full seven. Then, SC has to move fast enough to do this while stopping for 13 millisecond intervals, means than his acceleration is absurd. In order to have a gravitational force that a human would feel, which would be required to warp the path of light even a tiny bit, you would have to have the mass of Pluto’s smaller moon Deimos, which is 1,476,188,406,600,740 kilograms. If we assume that Silver Chariot without his armor is the same weight as Polnareff, which is reasonable based on his size, that Silver Chariot is about 78 kilograms. Based on the calculation of special relativity, the speed required for the relative mass change to even barely warp space would be 1545794708.59 times the speed of light! Even if SIlver Chariot weighed 100,000 times Polnareff without the armor, then he would still be moving 1,545.794708.59 times the speed of light. While this is not quite dense enough to create a black hole, this is still absurdly fast, dense, and massive. The thing is, this is a very conservative estimate for the mass required to warp space how Silver Chariot does, and it could very well require tens of times, maybe even hundreds of times greater masses, and therefore speeds, depending on how much space is warping. Silver Chariot isn’t only faster than light, he is so absurdly fast that, to make his mirror images possible, his movement should be causing nuclear explosions. The only explanation for why he isn’t is because he’s a stand, so I guess he can break the rules. And, as I proved earlier, Star Platinum is faster than Silver Chariot, as shown in the battle against DIO and The World. Star Platinum is most definitely not over 1.5 million times slower than Silver Chariot, therefore Star Platinum is also faster than the speed of light. Tusk has never been shown anywhere near that fast.

      I appreciate the math, but this is a drastic misunderstanding of what after-images actually are.

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    • Bruhwitagun wrote:
      i cant be fucked to read your pointless garbage but i already know youre wrong so ding dong you are wrong

      If you are trying to trolling, then I have to tell you that being a dick is not the same as trolling. If you are being serious, then please don't be a dick.

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    • Actually nevermind, you're right. Your math and reasoning is wrong, but when I did my own math again it turns out Silver Chariot would have to be moving about 8 times faster than light in order to leave as many after images as it did...

      ...which doesn't really make sense. If he was genuinely moving that fast he could've killed Avdol in a single blow, not to mention that no one would've been able to see him.

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    • What I gave was a possible interpretation of the scene, and by far the most absurd option. Yeah there are other ways to do it, but all options point to the same(ish) outcome. Sliver Chariot is faster than light, and therefore so is Star Platinum. Star Platinum can totally outspeed Tusk ACT 4.

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    • I don't think Star Platinum being faster than Tusk ACT 4 was ever in contention. I just don't think the speed difference is enough to counter the fact that Jotaro tends to fight a specific way, and that way drastically favors Tusk ACT 4.

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    • Yes, but Tusk ACT4 is faster than light, or at least it's bullets are. It hit Za Warudo, which is Star Platinums speed. 

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    • Ultimatewillpower wrote:
      Yes, but Tusk ACT4 is faster than light, or at least it's bullets are. It hit Za Warudo, which is Star Platinums speed. 

      We don't know that for certain. We don't have a basis for the stand stats, or solid feats to prove it. While it is reasonable to assume the stabd stats mean the same thing(ish), it's also reasonable to assume that the alternate universe might work differently.

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    • MKingasdfg wrote:
      I don't think Star Platinum being faster than Tusk ACT 4 was ever in contention. I just don't think the speed difference is enough to counter the fact that Jotaro tends to fight a specific way, and that way drastically favors Tusk ACT 4.

      My point is that Jotaro has ways to endthe fight immediately, such as using timestop, then stand jumping close to johnny, then pummeling, or he could just throw a rock. Even if you don't think Jotaro can stand jump 20 meters, he can stand jump like 15, then use Star Finger. Jotaro doesn't just lose because of his usual tactics, because he improvises tactics alot, what he does changes in practically every fight. He typically finishes with an ORA ORA rush, but how he gets to that point is always different, and sometimes that isn't how he beats tham, such as with The Sun, Wheel of Fortune, Dark Blue Moon or Justice. When the stand can't be beaten by just ORA ORA rushing, Jotaro comes up with really smart solutions, and when he's just really far away he is able to get his opponet closer, and has ways to close the gap. I think that Jotaro could survive long enough to make a strategy, at least most of the time. I say 6/10 odds in favor of Jotaro, but even if he wins then Jotaro is coming out injured, probably by cutting his own limb off when he sees the Infinite Rotation spreading too quickly. These fighters are very evenly matched, but I think Jotaro comes out on top more than Johnny does.

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    • Were silver chariot, or anyone for the matter, to travel faster than light he would actually be moving backwards in time. Just saiyan' some physics yo

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    • Yeah, things like that are kinda unavoidable. I like to say that it's fine, because stands are allowed to break the rules. However, you wouldn't move backward in time if you moved faster than light, time would just dilate to the point that you would effectively stop aging.

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    • You actually would. Lightspeed makes a physical boundary on the phase space of all your possible futures, were you to travel faster not only would your actions no longer have any consecuences, since you be moving faster than causality and any effect wouldn't have time to "catch up" to you, but also there are possible paths you could take to arrive at your own past

      http://www.physicsmatt.com/blog/2016/8/25/why-ftl-implies-time-travel

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    • Wow. That’s really cool. Does it actually matter the argument? Not really. I do however think that’s really cool. I guess just take the “anime logic” way to explain it.

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    • ahahaha that don't matter at all XD Just my inner geek who goes mental whenever someone rolls over the laws of physics

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    • Man, if Tusk can hit Za Warudo, he's faster than light. Even on VS Battles Wiki, almost all stands are MFL+. There is no alternate universe difference. Tusk is Jotaro's speed, or at least the bullets.

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    • Again, I think you're giving Jotaro too much credit.

      Jotaro is able to adapt his tactics in his fight because he experiments. He fights in a rather predictable way. First, he tries to just pummel the enemy because that's the quickest way to end it. If that doesn't work, he tries to find the enemy weakness and exploit it in order to get into close range. Then he finishes the fight with a well-placed ORA! barrage and the fight's over. That is how 90% of Jotaro's fights go, and it works because Star Platinum is incredibly powerful and Jotaro is a clever fighter.

      What I'm arguing here is that Tusk ACT 4 takes advantage of the fact that Jotaro always STARTS the fight with a direct approach. Every single time, Jotaro tries to end the fight quickly by smashing the enemy, and turns to clever thinking only when that doesn't work. But the moment he tries the direct approach against ACT 4, he loses.

      It's absolutely possible for Jotaro to win this match, but it would require him to behave in ways that are somewhat out of character. Jotaro would never try to dodge Johnny's bullets, because he has no reason to assume that they would harm him just from touch (we know this because that's how he behaves during the Ratt fight). Jotaro would never cut off his own limb to win. He would try to find a way to beat the enemy to cancel the ability before it killed him (because that's how he behaves during the Yellow Temperance fight). While it's totally possible for Jotaro to win, it's just out of character for him to behave way.

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    • I disagree that a direct approach against Tusk ACT 4 is always an instant loss. I'll say that it sometimes is, but it depends on how they both act. I still think that it's almost completely even, with Jotaro edging out slightly more, but thats only because I don't think that a direct approach is an instant loss.

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    • I don't see how that's even debatable. Even Diego with The World (pretty much identical to Star Platinum) thought a direct approach against Tusk ACT 4 was impossible. Tusk is slower than The World/Star Platinum but not dramatically, and all it takes is one touch to win.

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    • Well, Star Platinum is stronger and faster than The World, givin that Jotaro was able to overcome The World in their final stand clash, but that was Diego. We don't know how Diego would have fought with THE WORLD if the infinite rotation wasn't a factor, but it probably would have been similar to how DIO fights, which is much different than how Jotaro fights. We just don't know what would happen, but we do know the facts about speed and stand abilities. Jotaro has been known to use projectiles, Star Finger, and stand jumps to counteract his poor range, so we just don't know what would happen.

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    • tusk act 4 is inescapable if tusk touches star platinum jotaro would be dead

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    • This whole thread is being revived by people that don't read all the replies and go on to say Tusk is the sure victor (always because of Tusk Act 4's touch), and a debate unfolding again. It's a cycle at this point.

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    • I mean your not wrong

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    • I think that at this point we've basically agreed that this fight is very even. Depending on your view you might think that Jotaro or Johnny might edge out a victory more, but it's basically come down to whether or not Jotaro uses specific tactics, and when he uses them. So the final conclusion is that both fighters have multiple ways to win, and who wins is decided by whether or not Jotaro uses specific tactics that he's used before, but aren't his go to, and it's impossible to know exactly what he'll do.

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    • For instance, Jotaro has seen bullet type stands before, so he might change his tactics remembering ratt, but he might not change at all.

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    • stop posting you fucking monkey nobody gives a crappucino about it

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    • Bruhwitagun wrote:
      stop posting you fucking monkey nobody gives a crappucino about it

      stop posting you fucking monkey nobody gives a crappucino about it

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    • Jotaro wins because he’s Jotaro. No exceptions. Master of asspulls. I give no shits about the spin bullshit.

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    • Is it possible to close a thread lol?

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    • Maybe

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    • why the fuck are people still responding to this?

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    • i think that starplatnum is faster than tusk .so it took diego to first hand see hey this thing is like really dangerous.jotaro being jotaro would try to open up with a attack first  but i feel like tusk would open up first because tusk kinda kills when it gets the opportunity to so starplatnum would block a punch and jotaro gets infinte spin on his body i dont think jotaro would time stop before trying hit tusk but if he did he would be pretty shocked and tusk would get a lucky hit on him and would die also people say that infinte rotation would take a bit it would not tusk when it killed two people activated the rotation and kill them like as soon as he touched them.[i know people want this thread to end so im sorry]
      4989c32e49f65831801e0f53390e8a0995065c1c hq

      tusk was a gonna kill diego when he got the chance

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    • Tusk act 5 wrote:
      Infant's Isopod wrote:
      Tusk act 5 wrote:
      S.Cond Bomb wrote:
      Tusk act 5 wrote:
      Zodazzle wrote:
      ...What? Are you seriously comparing speeds by their visible punches in the manga (that are also over a decade apart) rather than their actual stats? Star Platinum has an A, and Tusk Act 4 has a B. Literally look at the stats and there you go. Besides, Star Platinum has been said to exceed the speed of light, and Tusk Act 4 can't apply to that. So it's definite that Star Platinum is faster. Stop digging for evidence of speed in the manga, which keep in mind aren't in motion.
      keep in mind stand stats are infamously confusing and make no sense. and also, i dare you to bring up as many VALID points as i have during this argument. disproving one point doesnt mean the rest of my evidence is faulty. and again, ONE FUCKING HIT. thats all it takes. i dont know how many times it needs to be said, but ONE FUCKING HIT IS ALL IT TAKES TO WIN. i dont even need any more evidence than that, but the valid points ive brought up simply reinforce my argument. and again, if the stats are supposedly the deciding factor, then AN A IN DURBILITY should be able to let tusk tank one or two hits before HE RENDERS JOTARO USELESS WITH ONE FUCKING HIT.to be fair, youve brought up some good points. but that one peice of evidence is the strongest brought up in this argument, and while you are focusing on disproving one or two points for every five i bring up, i actually have concrete evidence to back up my point. name one reason why jotaro wouldnt try and tank one or two hits to land an ora rush.
      >Stand stats infamously confusing

      But they're not...? The only offender that I can think of would be Destructive Power, but that only represents physical strenght.

      >One hit is all it takes to win

      Tusk still has to land that hit. There's also the fact that Johnny himself cannot move in stopped time, meaning SP is gonna fuck him up.

      >A in durability

      The World had an A in durability too, and Star Platinum fucked it up on multiple occasions. I doubt Tusk is gonna fare much better.

      >One reason why Jotaro wouldn't tank one or two hits to do an ora rush

      He could, but that doesn't mean he should. Also, if he immediately opens with time-stop, he won't even need to take that Tusk hit.

      1: fair, i suppose. but there is no set number for each stat. i mean, star platinum, hanged man, and silver chariot all have an A in speed, but have different speeds. and weather report (the stand) has a B in speed, and it can literally summon the fastest winds ever recorded. compare that wind speed vs highway star's B in speed, topping at 60 km/hour

      2: yeah, but tusk will land a hit if jotaro opens with an ora ora. and again, tusk can move in timestop, which will definitely catch jotaro off-guard

      3: yeah, but that took about like 4 episodes for the world to get beaten, and hits were landed on both sides. and tusk is the only one with super spin punches

      4: its his go-to move, and tusk and the bullets can move in timestop. and jotaro will often react to projectiles by catching them, aibeit activating super spin

      Jesus christ, this argument is going on way too long and I'm not in the mood to write another paragraph, so...


      You can't land a hit if you're being repeatedly punched by something that is easily capable of shattering diamonds.

      Tusk can't hit Star Platinum if it's being beaten to death the moment it enters its range. There's literally no getting past that. Star Platinum was able to punch in several large holes in The World, another A-Durability Stand. There is no reason Tusk, a Stand much slower and actually less responsive (i.e it doesn't follow Johnny's commands as precisely as Star Platinum does, since it mainly just indiscriminately kills things, even Johnny himself if he gets caught in the crossfire) than both Star Platinum AND The World, and I guarantee you Star Platinum won't try to go for a clash of barrages once it realizes Tusk is far slower than it (which is literally the moment Tusk tries to throw a punch) and will just bludgeon Tusk without effort.

      also shit i wrote a paragrpah anyway

      i kinda get it. star platinum can break diamonds. BUT. 

      1: again, it took a lot of punches to beat the world. the world and tusk act 4 both have an A in durability

      2: all you need is contact. not just with his fists, it can be the bullet, tusks fist, tusks armour, anything tusk

      This dude has forgotten the fact that Star Platinum literally donuted DIO's The World in ONE PUNCH! iT toOk a lOt oF pUnChEs tO bEaT tHe wOrLd. It took one punch to fist The World through the stomach. If DIO wasn't a vampire, he would be dead first chance.

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    • Tbh I love debates but all these arguments for Tusk's victory that I see here is literal fanboy bullshittery.

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    • Star Platinum wins, because it's the same type of stand.



      Just kidding, I think Tusk is able to move around in stopped time so it may be an advantage to pummel Star Platinum to the ground and infect it with the infinite rotation.

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    • RealMattForsyth
      RealMattForsyth removed this reply because:
      e
      15:58, November 10, 2019
      This reply has been removed
    • tbh you know that one moment when The World Kicked Star Platinum and all Jotaro did was just intercept it with a punch

      Thats about all that needs to happen for Johnny to win

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    • its really tough because star platinum is defintly faster than tusk  but tusk moving just a little bit might confuse jotaro just a bit and almost any contact with tusk is almost suicide but thats the thing it depends if johnnys out to kill if he is he is gonna throw tusk directly at jotaro or he tries to get closer knowing that its timestop so hmmm i dont know but tusk has a better chance to beat starplatinum than jotaro has for johnny.(also jotaro would have to learn johnnys ability before johnny shoots him).

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    • yeah ima just go for star plat, personaly i beilieve that jotaro would be able to beat tusk a4

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    • all in all tho he died a ceasar XD

      Death of Johnny
      Ceasar
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    • guys guys guys stand stats make sense but bros

      tusk act 4 aint that slow

      the world was as fast as star plat and yet diego was still afraid to go to close contact

      just a slight touch will u make u spin infinitly

      it can move in stopped time(probably)

      The nails can also make u spin infinitly and even if jotaro like blocked or grabbed them whit anything of his body they would make him spin

      so whit all these points i conclude tusk would win

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    • TheRealSonOfNeptune wrote:
       

      Tbh I love debates but all these arguments for Tusk's victory that I see here is literal fanboy bullshittery.

      bro all these arguments for star plats victory is just fanboyism tusk has a better ability(infinite rotation) can move in stopped time and it even scared diego enough(THE ONE WHIT ZA WARUDO) that he was cautious about getting close, the world is as fast as star plat(atleast dio was so lets just say diego is the same)

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    • Star Platinum's main weakness is range, if an enemy is sniping him from far enough away, then he has trouble beating them. Tusk's weaknesses are the amount of time that it takes to charge the infinite roatation, and the limited amount of shots it has. What we have to ask is whether Jotaro could either:

      a) Close the distance before Johnny has a chance to fire the rotation, and incapacitate either him or Slow Dancer

      or

      b) Avoid the rotation, and either try for option a again, or just keep dodging Johnny's 10 bullets with a minimum of 5 of them being infinite rotation shots

      Jotaro does have a few advantages, Johnny has a weird habit of closing the distance even though he should always stay away, and we see in High Voltage that the infinite rotation does fizzle out after chasing for awhile.

      But I'm giving this to Johnny like 8 times out of 10. We see in the Ratt fight that Jotaro is the type of person to see what the bullet would do when it hits, which would definitelly be his downfall. There is a slight chance, if Johnny leads with an Act 2 shot while charging the rotation, and Jotaro sees a weird bullet hole moving towards him, that he'll decide that he's just going to dodge every shot, but sadly I must admit that Jotaro loses most times.

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    • Oh goodness gracious i can't keep up with all these comments

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    • Messi123433 wrote:

      TheRealSonOfNeptune wrote:
       

      Tbh I love debates but all these arguments for Tusk's victory that I see here is literal fanboy bullshittery.

      bro all these arguments for star plats victory is just fanboyism tusk has a better ability(infinite rotation) can move in stopped time and it even scared diego enough(THE ONE WHIT ZA WARUDO) that he was cautious about getting close, the world is as fast as star plat(atleast dio was so lets just say diego is the same)

      HOLY SHIT DUDE. THE SCARIEST PART IS YOUR GRAMMAR, but nevertheless I would like to know where you got information about Tusk 4's Stopped Time movement because after reading the manga I saw a slight instance of Johnny's finger moving with Act 3.

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    • TheRealSonOfNeptune wrote:

      Messi123433 wrote:

      TheRealSonOfNeptune wrote:
       

      Tbh I love debates but all these arguments for Tusk's victory that I see here is literal fanboy bullshittery.

      bro all these arguments for star plats victory is just fanboyism tusk has a better ability(infinite rotation) can move in stopped time and it even scared diego enough(THE ONE WHIT ZA WARUDO) that he was cautious about getting close, the world is as fast as star plat(atleast dio was so lets just say diego is the same)

      HOLY SHIT DUDE. THE SCARIEST PART IS YOUR GRAMMAR, but nevertheless I would like to know where you got information about Tusk 4's Stopped Time movement because after reading the manga I saw a slight instance of Johnny's finger moving with Act 3.

      I think he means when Tusk4 moved slightly in timestop. If jotaro saw him twitching in timestop, he’d have a reaction similar to Diego’s and back off.

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    • Holy shit I'm a dumbass and just realized that Tusk's twitch in Diego's timestop was a reference to Jotaro's finger twitching in DIO's timestop.

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    • Lol

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    • sp ftw

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    • Tusk act 4 is able to break through Diego the world time stop

      Why is star platinum any different

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    • well they aren't

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    • dio cuz he's kool (liek me x33) nya~

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    • just kill the horse

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    • NO! i was so sad when my horse died in rdr2 that i shot up a whole town till i felt that vengence was served

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    • lol

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    • A FANDOM user
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