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    • if it goes off before the time stop, then yes

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    • Yes. Can't stop time if there's no time to stop thanks to it being skipped. 

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    • No, stopped time means that there is no time to skip because it isn't progressing.

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    • It is impossible to negate stopped time for 3 reasons:

      1. Only Dio would be able to move

      2. There would be no time to skip

      3. There is no known Stand that can completely negate time, only: Stop, Skip, Loop, and Accelerate.

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    • This is why the only wasy to defeat DIO using King Crimson would be to attack him before he stops time (which without him saying so in the first place, would be impossible).

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    • Diavolo would be able to since:

      1st he cant be affected in stopped time.

      2nd the opponent wont know why they ar ein their new position.

      3rd stopping time still means that actions from that second are there but just un noticed essentially still being part of the 10 seconds thus making them become skipped.

      This is however my opinion on the matter.

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    • why are people forgetting about mandom

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    • no, he can't erase the stopped time, why people just ignore this scene is beyond me
      Va color v10 039
      , diavolo is punched, aa zipper forms in his head, he activates time skip, the punchs still affects him, the zipper gets bigger and bigger, until he DODGES the punch, even the anime showed him dogdim sticky fingers punchs, two times, he doesn't go to another reality like the wiki says
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    • also,  from that scene alone, we can see that 1) he can suffer damage inside the time skip 2) stand ability works normally inside the time skip and they can affect diavolo, with this in mind, in part 6 the time stop is discribed to be the "most invincible and strongest stand abillity that has ever existed", not only one, but twice, in those two pages
      So color v03 013
      So color v02 065
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    • Diavolo is able to see 10 seconds into the future, right? With this knowledge, he should be able to predict when Dio actives time stop regardless of how long he takes during it, and then erase the time in which the time stop would happen. Or so I believe.

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    • SexHaver4200 wrote:
      Diavolo is able to see 10 seconds into the future, right? With this knowledge, he should be able to predict when Dio actives time stop regardless of how long he takes during it, and then erase the time in which the time stop would happen. Or so I believe.

      No, remember that while seeing 10 seconds into the future there are no seconds. This is because DIO would have stopped time already. The vision would be himself dead instantly, just like any normal person would see of The World (minus Jotaro of course!).

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    • I’m pretty sure Diavolo would come out on top. He can see 10 seconds into the future. Say DIO is going to use Za Warudo. Diavolo is looking into the future, and notices that DIO does a bunch of stuff instantaneously. Diavolo can’t see the stopped time, but he could probably figure out that something was up, and erase DIO’s time stop before it happened. Because DIO stops time outside of Za Warudo, he would be affected by King Crimson before he could do anything. In the erased space, DIO would use Za Warudo, but it wouldn’t count. Therefore, DIO’s entire time spent Warudo-ing would be negated. It doesn’t matter what DIO does during the time stop, as King Crimson has already erased that time, so nothing happening during in that period has any effect. Now, DIO’s special power has been negated, but his stand still has great stats. DIO and Diavolo would still have to duke it out the old fashioned way. While DIO has a fatal weakness to sunlight, I doubt Diavolo would be caught dead in broad daylight, haha. So I think Diavolo would best him in the time stand-off(haha), but whatever happens after that is up in the air.

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    • But as it was stated earlier, even if Diavolo skips the time frame, DIO's time stop would still be in effect, because it doesn't negate stand abilities, as shown with Bruno's Zipper still increase in size on King Crimson even while he was skipping time.

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    • That’s a good point. KC didn’t seem to affect Sticky Fingers there, for sure. I feel like this may be attributed to Araki’s inconsistency though. KC normally just gets rid of everything that happens during that time. Maybe it depends on the stand being used? Like whether it’s active or passive, for example.

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    • Perhaps, it would be a pretty interesting fight for sure though. Mainly because if DIO got any hits in on Diavolo before he skips or by working around KC he would be demolished due to his low durability, but that's assuming if DIO will get any hits in at all.

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    • Agreed. Both their stands can punch through people, but The World could probably just Punch through King Crimson as well. When such a fight would occur, I feel, would provide the tipping point in one or the other’s favor, as DIO becomes more powerful the more he is adjusted to Johnathan’s body. Thinking about it though, Jotaro activates his own time stop during DIO’s time stop (I think it was something like ‘at DIO’s seventh second Jotaro activates his four seconds of time, sharing DIO’s eight and ninth stopped seconds, then Jotaro uses his own last two seconds on his own’). So perhaps if DIO activates his stopped time during KC’s time erasure period, DIO’s actions during the time erasure would be negated, but time could still be stopped once the time erasure period was over.

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    • People keep saying that Diavolo would still suffer the damage in the Time Erase. Don’t forget that Aerosmith’s bullets went through him in erased time

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    • During time skip, Diavolo is immune to any and all damage, the only exception being self-inflicted damage like slitting his wrists. Of course, he can't attack anyone during time erase, however he can still affect objects not fated to be affected after the skip and he can blind his opponents with his own blood. 

      As long as Diavolo can predict DIO's time stop, yes, time skip can completely counter DIO. The reason DIO would beat Diavolo is because of his regeneration and abilities as a vampire combined with one of the strongest and fastest Stands in the entire series. Thanks to that, Diavolo will eventually lose. He needs to perfectly read and counter all of DIO's time stop multiple times to get past DIO's regeneration while DIO only needs one time stop and one hit to kill Diavolo. In terms of abilities, King Crimson >>>> The World/Star Platinum and but thanks to DIO's physiology he can beat Diavolo more often than Diavolo can beat DIO. 

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    • Patfv wrote:
      also,  from that scene alone, we can see that 1) he can suffer damage inside the time skip 2) stand ability works normally inside the time skip and they can affect diavolo, with this in mind, in part 6 the time stop is discribed to be the "most invincible and strongest stand abillity that has ever existed", not only one, but twice, in those two pages
      So color v03 013
      So color v02 065

      No? Bucciarati clearly hit King Crimson before he activated time skip. It's a simple fact that Diavolo is completely invincible while in erased time. Also, time stop is definitely not the most invincible ability to exist, since you know, Gold Experience Requiem is a thing. 

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    • No, if DIO was to stop time then King Crimsion could not do it because time when DIO stopped it STOPPED. KING CRIMSION CAN NOT ERASE A PART OF TIME THAT WAS STOPPED DUE TO HIM BEING UNAWARE OF IT HAPPENING. He could predict that he would be punched throught the heart, like DIO did to Kakyoin, but he would not be able to figure out when and where it was going to happen. DIO and Jotaro are massive threats to King Crimsion

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    • Diavolo is an extremely cautious character. The moment he sees himself injured in any way, he'll activate time skip. It's just what he does. 

      DIO is a massive threat, but Jotaro isn't. Not only is Jotaro's time stop 5 seconds max, which is half of Diavolo's time skip length (giving Diavolo plenty of time to time skip before Jotaro activated time stop) he lacks DIO's regeneration abilities so one hit from KC will donut Jotaro. 

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    • If Diavolo activates his ability before Jotaro stops time, he won’t be damaged in this. Timestop doesn’t exist on an actual second so the the Time Erase would still last 10 seconds even after the time stop finishes. Diavolo can fully avoid Time stop with time erase.

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    • I find something:

      ,,people think that Dio's "10 seconds" time-stop would greatly interfere with King Crimson's Time Erasure. However, this is far from the case, since that's not how the two abilities would interact.Since both abilities both "last" technically 10 seconds, people think that Diavolo would just shorten Dio's time-stop or just immediately end it.In reality, Dio's time-stop lasts 10 seconds... Within 0 time. A time-stop doesn't actually "last" since it's outright stopping the universal flow of time. Assuming we have a timeline that goes from point 1 to point 10, and Dio time-stops exactly at point 1, his time-stop would start and still end at point 1. Those "10 seconds" of time-stop are only an idea of a time frame within stopped time to somewhat quantify the number of actions Dio can do in his stopped Time.Diavolo, on the other hand, can actually erase literal 10 seconds with King Crimson's ability. In other words, in using the timeline that I previously mentioned, Instead of time proceeding to get from point 1, to point 2, to point 3, etcetera, time would go directly from point 1 to point 10, while Diavolo ill still be able to view all the actions between those two points of erased time.Summing up, Diavolo will completely skip Dio's entire time-stop (or even multiple time-stops), alongside all of his actions in the regular 10 seconds of time. King Crimson's ability will heavily mess with Dio's powers and cognition, while the World's will only confuse Diavolo a little, but still leaving him with a far greater control of the situation. Time-Stop might as well be useless in this scenario.Could Diavolo get past Dio's regeneration and superior stamina? I'd say yes: he can use Epitaph as a precognitive ability (which will additionally give him another advantage over Dio in temporal shenanigans) to give himself an immediate advantage, and after noticing regen, he's time-skip another time while Dio is still wondering what the hell happened, and reduce the latter's head to a bloody pulp until he cannot regenerate any more.

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    • Diavolo can't attack during time skip

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    • Seventy96 wrote: I find something:

      ,,people think that Dio's "10 seconds" time-stop would greatly interfere with King Crimson's Time Erasure. However, this is far from the case, since that's not how the two abilities would interact.Since both abilities both "last" technically 10 seconds, people think that Diavolo would just shorten Dio's time-stop or just immediately end it.In reality, Dio's time-stop lasts 10 seconds... Within 0 time. A time-stop doesn't actually "last" since it's outright stopping the universal flow of time. Assuming we have a timeline that goes from point 1 to point 10, and Dio time-stops exactly at point 1, his time-stop would start and still end at point 1. Those "10 seconds" of time-stop are only an idea of a time frame within stopped time to somewhat quantify the number of actions Dio can do in his stopped Time.Diavolo, on the other hand, can actually erase literal 10 seconds with King Crimson's ability. In other words, in using the timeline that I previously mentioned, Instead of time proceeding to get from point 1, to point 2, to point 3, etcetera, time would go directly from point 1 to point 10, while Diavolo ill still be able to view all the actions between those two points of erased time.Summing up, Diavolo will completely skip Dio's entire time-stop (or even multiple time-stops), alongside all of his actions in the regular 10 seconds of time. King Crimson's ability will heavily mess with Dio's powers and cognition, while the World's will only confuse Diavolo a little, but still leaving him with a far greater control of the situation. Time-Stop might as well be useless in this scenario.Could Diavolo get past Dio's regeneration and superior stamina? I'd say yes: he can use Epitaph as a precognitive ability (which will additionally give him another advantage over Dio in temporal shenanigans) to give himself an immediate advantage, and after noticing regen, he's time-skip another time while Dio is still wondering what the hell happened, and reduce the latter's head to a bloody pulp until he cannot regenerate any more.

      I agree 100% with this. Diavolo is the true lord

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    • But it closed like month ago! I can’t believe nobody invited us 😔. ;P

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    • CrimsonDiavolo wrote:

      Seventy96 wrote: I find something:

      ,,people think that Dio's "10 seconds" time-stop would greatly interfere with King Crimson's Time Erasure. However, this is far from the case, since that's not how the two abilities would interact.Since both abilities both "last" technically 10 seconds, people think that Diavolo would just shorten Dio's time-stop or just immediately end it.In reality, Dio's time-stop lasts 10 seconds... Within 0 time. A time-stop doesn't actually "last" since it's outright stopping the universal flow of time. Assuming we have a timeline that goes from point 1 to point 10, and Dio time-stops exactly at point 1, his time-stop would start and still end at point 1. Those "10 seconds" of time-stop are only an idea of a time frame within stopped time to somewhat quantify the number of actions Dio can do in his stopped Time.Diavolo, on the other hand, can actually erase literal 10 seconds with King Crimson's ability. In other words, in using the timeline that I previously mentioned, Instead of time proceeding to get from point 1, to point 2, to point 3, etcetera, time would go directly from point 1 to point 10, while Diavolo ill still be able to view all the actions between those two points of erased time.Summing up, Diavolo will completely skip Dio's entire time-stop (or even multiple time-stops), alongside all of his actions in the regular 10 seconds of time. King Crimson's ability will heavily mess with Dio's powers and cognition, while the World's will only confuse Diavolo a little, but still leaving him with a far greater control of the situation. Time-Stop might as well be useless in this scenario.Could Diavolo get past Dio's regeneration and superior stamina? I'd say yes: he can use Epitaph as a precognitive ability (which will additionally give him another advantage over Dio in temporal shenanigans) to give himself an immediate advantage, and after noticing regen, he's time-skip another time while Dio is still wondering what the hell happened, and reduce the latter's head to a bloody pulp until he cannot regenerate any more.

      I agree 100% with this. Diavolo is the true lord

      Wow I've no words for this...

      You've completely solved the debate, and it makes sense!

      This must be the work of an enemy stand!

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    • Except he didn't, a couple of debaters and I concluded that DIO would eventually be able to time stop due to his regen keeping from being killed. DIO would regen from getting donutted by KC, Diavolo would freak out and skip time again, set himself up for a head shot, resume time and DIO's enhanced senses would allow him to counter attack or he would survive the head damage as he has before like with Polnareff's sneak attack or Jotaro's head crushing SP punch and get a chance to attack eventually.

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    • Pretty sure time erase cancels time stop so yeah.

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    • It does as long as Diavolo predicts him stopping time and erases time at the right moment

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    • Dios time stop last longer than Diovolo's Time Skip. so even if he skipped it there would be 4 seconds where he was powerless. Yall don't know Jojo's like I do.

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    • I don’t think that matters though. DIO’s timestop doesn’t happen in ten seconds, it happens instantaneously. He ‘pauses’ the flow of time, and is able to take ten seconds worth of action. It WAS ten seconds, right? I thought that was both of their maximums(as of DIO’s death) but I could be wrong.

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    • Exactly ^

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    • “Y’all don’t know Jojo’s like I do”. Pffft.

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    • Engardian wrote:
      I don’t think that matters though. DIO’s timestop doesn’t happen in ten seconds, it happens instantaneously. He ‘pauses’ the flow of time, and is able to take ten seconds worth of action. It WAS ten seconds, right? I thought that was both of their maximums(as of DIO’s death) but I could be wrong.

      Thats what I meant. It is instantanious but it last 9 seconds. So King Crimson would shorten his time stop. But the only way he could skip some of it is if DIO, being the arrogant bastard he is, said, "NOW, THE WORLD, STOP TIME!" Which would give King Crimsion a clue to what he was doing and Skip it. But he wouldnt know.



      Also here is a video that shows how THE WORLD would work in real time: This video is made by morganstedmanms. Go check out his channel and like him. Here is the video link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VAnE83ViYA

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    • Joseph.0.Joestar wrote:

      Engardian wrote:
      I don’t think that matters though. DIO’s timestop doesn’t happen in ten seconds, it happens instantaneously. He ‘pauses’ the flow of time, and is able to take ten seconds worth of action. It WAS ten seconds, right? I thought that was both of their maximums(as of DIO’s death) but I could be wrong.

      Thats what I meant. It is instantanious but it last 9 seconds. So King Crimson would shorten his time stop. But the only way he could skip some of it is if DIO, being the arrogant bastard he is, said, "NOW, THE WORLD, STOP TIME!" Which would give King Crimsion a clue to what he was doing and Skip it. But he wouldnt know.



      Also here is a video that shows how THE WORLD would work in real time: This video is made by morganstedmanms. Go check out his channel and like him. Here is the video link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VAnE83ViYA

      Let’s say Diavolo sees himself with a hole in his chest but doesn’t see DIO anywhere. Epitaph shows Diavolo the RESULT of 10 seconds so the timestop had to have happened some time in between the start of the ten seconds and the end. Diavolo, being as cautious as he is, erases time. Maybe at like the 5 second mark DIO stops time. Diavolo isn’t affected because of time erase and soon the time erase will end. DIO will have no knowledge of what happened in that time and he won’t know if he stopped Time so he’d be Confused. Then Diavolo delivers the final blow. Also DIO would have shouted THE WORLD because he’s stupid. To anyone but DIO, timestop happens in an instant. Since he literally stops time, it’s just like pausing a movie and then resuming it. Diavolo doesn’t shorten the timestop if he erases time. He just completely nullifies it. It’s not that hard to understand timestop..

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    • You are right, its not that hard, I mean, It is litteraly in the name, TIMESTOP. Now lets change it. TIME STOP, now rearrange, STOP TIME. its not that hard.

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    • Okay smartass

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    • CrimsonDiavolo wrote:
      Okay smartass

      Hehe, I mean, I am Joseph Joestar, It's Kinda my job.

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    • Grrr

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    • Joseph is the most over powered character in JoJo

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    • Damn straight

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    • LordUrien935 wrote:
      Patfv wrote:
      also,  from that scene alone, we can see that 1) he can suffer damage inside the time skip 2) stand ability works normally inside the time skip and they can affect diavolo, with this in mind, in part 6 the time stop is discribed to be the "most invincible and strongest stand abillity that has ever existed", not only one, but twice, in those two pages
      So color v03 013
      So color v02 065
      No? Bucciarati clearly hit King Crimson before he activated time skip. It's a simple fact that Diavolo is completely invincible while in erased time. Also, time stop is definitely not the most invincible ability to exist, since you know, Gold Experience Requiem is a thing. 
      oh it's a simple fact? what is this then?
      Va color v10 039
      your clearly see him getting hit, the zipper forming in his head, and then he activates the time skip, the punch still affects him, the zipper gets bigger and then he DODGE the punch
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    • even the anime showed him dodging sticky fingers punchs, twice, in the first part of the fight (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gM5zAQFl5k4&t=48s), you can clearly see him seeing the forecast(the red effect) of sticky fingers coming to punch him, then he DODGES it, then you see the real sticky fingers punching nothing, the second part of the fight (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6y-QCEWQrvY), buccelati punchs him, he activates the time skip, the FORECAST of the punch advances, he step back, DODGING the punch, then you see sticky fingers real arm advancing
      Socao
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    • also, the scene of him "erasing 0.5 seconds of time" is just complet bullshit, because it's contradicts the things he does before and after that fight, bullets pass right through him yeah? so what is this?
      Bullshit
       why is he dodging mista bullets? he says that he erased just 0.5 seconds of time for the moment of the bullets hiting him be erased and ended his ability right ater that for the bullets be able to hit risoto right? so why the fuck this happens? 
      Va color v15 081
      twice, the moment of the bullets hiting him is erased so it never happened right? but why the moment of the blood hitting polnaref(or giorno later) isn't? he clearly says in his fight against risoto that "only the results stay in this world, only the result of you being shot", does blood doesn't count on that? why did he dodged mista bullets? only aerosmith bullets are erased? if that moment is erased and he true disapears from reality, how he cleaned his room inside the time skip? this fucking thing just happens once, and it contradicts everything in the manga, from his fight againt buccelati to his very last appearance
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    • now regarding time stop vs time erase, time stop IS the superior ability, part 6 states twice that it's the "most INVINCIBLE and most STRONGEST stand ability that has ever existed", requiem is a upgrade, and it's not permanent, made in heaven is stronger, but right after made in heaven appears star platinum gets another stats page, this time without the information of it being the strongest, you see? no incoherencs, also you have interviews with araki where again he states time stop is the strongest, and for another offcial source you have eyes of heaven, where time stop counters time erase, he can't erase time stop, time stop is the superior ability, the moment dio/jotaro activates it, time will be stopped, it gets the advantage, it will not be erased anymore, even diavolo states that "time shall be erased for everyone but myself" 
      Va color v17 040

      him activating time skip before dodging mista bullets and throwing blood in giorno eyes

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    • He can still easily avoid time stop. If he activates time erase, the time stop will still happen but won’t affect him. He dodged Aerosmith’s bullets so he is completely invincible in time erase.

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    • “Diavolo temporarily removes himself from reality, resulting in attempts to 'interact' with him to be rendered futile.” this is a quote from the fandom itself...it states specifically that all actions are rendered useless against him. Jesus...

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    • Just because it says that the Time Stop is the ‘strongest ability’ doesn’t make it true, especially considering that statement itself is an opinion. Kira says that ‘Sheer Heart Attack has no weakness’ but that doesn’t make it true. And how things work in Eyes of Heaven doesn’t reflect exactly how stands actually work in the manga; they had to make the abilities playable as a video game.

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    • Yeah, I agree with that too

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    • it's not an opinion, it's stated in star platinum stats page and in the page describing the stands power, the images are above, it's araki himself saying this, it's not some random character, and i think i pretty much showed how this "remove himself from reality" makes no sense, showing pages from the manga before and after that scene that completely negates it, using just ONE panel of something that just happens ONCE, and contradicts EVERYTHING stablished from his powers  is what doesn't make sense

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    • So why can’t Araki just explain how and why the ability does this? It makes no sense to this day and Araki hasn’t told us. I know he doesn’t have to but it would be nice if he did

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    • that's why i like to use the games as a source of information, because it's the closest thing we will have for comparison and araki supervisionised the games, eyes of heaven in my opinion have the best interpretation of king crimson abilitys, and in that game time stop counter time erasure, also in all star battle if you play as polnareff against diavolo, he will say that diavolo powers are ALMOST up there with dio's, this summed with the information in part 6, and his interviews(it's on youtube and on this wiki) as well, we can assume time stop is indeed the strongest one, now regarding his powers, king crimson is pretty consistent in part 5, the only two things that causes this confusion is that fight against risoto and buccelati punching himself, (witch again just happend once), you can see in my comments that king crimson behaves in one way the entire manga, and in another during his fight with risoto, it's just like star platinum having a range of 2 meters and still be able to take all that shit for jotaro in the prison, or valentine having the ability to make parallel universes coexist and later be revealed that he need to be in between 2 things to travel between universes, or white snake acid/ilusion power that is used just once and nevermore

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    • Well, then the games prove the point of Diavolo being immune in time erase. An example is Diavolos O skill in EoH. He can activate time erasure while being attacked to avoid the attacks and then come out and attack.

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    • But I think it’s stupid that time stop makes Diavolo exit erased time if used before it. He should still be in erased time even during time stop.

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    • But I agree 100% about Him only being able to evade attacks in erased time without moving in the risotto fight happened once. Maybe that was just to keep the plot going? Who knows

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    • I admit I was in the wrong about how it’s said the Time Stop is the strongest ability. But I’d still say that it’s just an opinion. Araki created the universe, but I don’t think it’s right to just take the manga/himself saying ‘This is the strongest power’, at least without reasoning behind it, when what’s actually presented in the manga could at least dispute that. Strange example, but it’d kind of be like J.K. Rowling saying ‘Voldemort was the strongest wizard’, even though within the context of the books, it’s highly debatable(again, not the best example, as it’s a bit more clear-cut, but Harry Potter is a pretty well known and it’s the first thing that popped into my head).

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    • Well at least you stated your opinion without getting snappy like some people.

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    • So many posts, so many things to answer to.

      Well, in any case, despite KC's limitations and inconsistencies, I think it can cancel timestop. It's a repeat, but SP cannot stop time that has been erased. And KC is guaranteed to erase time because Diavolo can see the attack coming.

      Sticky Fingers? KC erases time, not zippers.

      Moreover, I'm calling into question the in-between commentaries Patfv is using. My official translations of the manga only say that SP is the strongest Stand by virtue of having timestop AND strength and precision. It doesn't say that timestop is the strongest stand power anywhere. I'll trust official translations over fan translations. Timestop isn't confirmed to ever trump time erasure.

      And don't trust video games. Nuff said.

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    • Nabukun wrote:
      So many posts, so many things to answer to.

      Well, in any case, despite KC's limitations and inconsistencies, I think it can cancel timestop. It's a repeat, but SP cannot stop time that has been erased. And KC is guaranteed to erase time because Diavolo can see the attack coming.

      Sticky Fingers? KC erases time, not zippers.

      Moreover, I'm calling into question the in-between commentaries Patfv is using. My official translations of the manga only say that SP is the strongest Stand by virtue of having timestop AND strength and precision. It doesn't say that timestop is the strongest stand power anywhere. I'll trust official translations over fan translations. Timestop isn't confirmed to ever trump time erasure.

      And don't trust video games. Nuff said.

      do you have part 6 official english translations? can you post the pictures for us to see? it's stated twice, also, here is the author himself saying it again (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTh1woTmDqs&t=379s 5:20),he jokes around but says that star platinum is invincible, only jotaro can beaat jotaro, and you need to control time and make time flow again because he can halt the flow of time, king crimson does not do that, and as i said, eyes of heaven have the best interpration of king crimson powers, in all star battle polnareff says that diavolo power is ALMOST there with the world, what is the correct translation for this then?
      So color v02 065
      for all the information regarding the two abilities, i think we can really assume time stop have the advantage here, also if jotaro/dio activates time stop, time will be stopped, it will not be erased, he can't erase a time that doesn't flow, if i can't use what is written in the manga, or araki declarations, or what is show in other jojo medias, what are we going to use in this discussion? just headcanons?
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    • and this discussion will go on and on, forever, i will do the same as you said, i will trust the manga and what we have in the interviews and in the official medias, that time stop is the strongest and most invincible stand ability that has ever existed, until araki himself comes and says the contrary of what he said in the manga, that time erase now is the strongest stand ability, i will keep trusting the information i have, i'm going to leave now as this discussion will go on and on, but there's one thing i would like to know, is this the "official" translation? 
      Eros
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    • @Patfv 

      Gold Experience Requiem? D4C:Love Train?

      Authors often are not aware, how strong or weak are characters that they created.

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      Why do I even bother that much?... Here I got you covered. I got the volumes, officially translated in French, the commentaries in french too. Use google translate or something. Check for yourself, never does it say that timestop is the strongest ability.

      SP is certainly the overall strongest Stand ever, but that doesn't mean that KC can't cancel timestop. There is NO direct discussion about it so what we have are what we know about their powers. With what I got, KC is a counter to SP, it's less practical and less physically powerful, but KC counters SP's timestop.

      Besides, you can pull any Jotaro or Dio wank you know of, but in the story, even Stand users without time affecting abilities can defeat Jotaro. So even if Araki says it, he's wrong about his story. Of course, it also counts for video games, whose original dialogs are more fanservice than facts.

      That's it, I'm done too. Out

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    • He may not be able to erase time that has stopped but Jotaro can’t attack someone that isn’t really there. Diavolo enters his own “dimension” in time erasure. He can’t be harmed in Time Erase. When the timestop ends, the time erasure will still be active, allowing him to move still without Jotaro even knowing that he stopped Time.

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    • Also I agree with Nabu

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    • @Nabukun Whoa, what's up with the stats in the french version of SO Volume 17? I thought it was meant to be AACEAC, not AACDEA. E in precision doesn't make any sense, and it looks like his development potential somehow went back up to A.

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    • duh

      stopping time is stopping time

      not dodging hits

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    • LordUrien935 wrote:
      Diavolo is an extremely cautious character. The moment he sees himself injured in any way, he'll activate time skip. It's just what he does. 

      DIO is a massive threat, but Jotaro isn't. Not only is Jotaro's time stop 5 seconds max, which is half of Diavolo's time skip length (giving Diavolo plenty of time to time skip before Jotaro activated time stop) he lacks DIO's regeneration abilities so one hit from KC will donut Jotaro. 

      stpped time can't be skipped, also star platinum can donut the world

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    • If Diavolo saw himself getting hit by nothing (time stop) he would naturally enter his time erasure. If he does it before jotaro stops time, Diavolo won’t be affected by the timestop and to Jotaro, it would appear as if his timestop was skipped or never happened

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    • I think the whole thing about which ability topples another depends on Diavolo's perspective. If Jotaro were to use Time Stop to move from one place to another within the erased period, would Diavolo see him suddenly change position within that period?

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    • Za Waurdodo vs a regular human 

      King creamSon  vs a regular human

      you can easily tell which ability is stronger

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    • I always interpreted it as Diavolo existing "outside of time" when his ability activates. His own dimension of sorts outside of time and to an extent "casuality" or cause, leaving only "effect". But this is only when the ability is activated, and it has to be activated consciously. So it comes down to who activates their ability first as he wouldn't exist outside of time when it isnt active.

      That being said, under those conditions, King Crimson beats out The World more often than not, and beats Star Platinum The World 100% of the time....due to Epitaph being able to see 10 seconds into the future. Due to that and Diavolo's cautions nature, he would activate his ability before Time Stop activates, and either he's completely unaffected due to being outside of time, or the 'time' that was stopped gets skipped over completely anyways. Or both. And even if it somehow doesn't, Diavolo is invincible while his ability is active.



      Now, going by this he beats Jotaro 99% of the time. As for DIO, it depends on how long his time stop is at the beginning of the fight. If it's like how it was at the beginning of the fight with Jotaro, then Diavolo would have a chance to win provided he destroys DIO's head. Going for the head isnt his first option but if he sees DIO survive and regen, I dont think it'll be hard for him to try. Plus, DIO due to having weaker vampire powers than Dio Brando, wouldn't be able to regenerate his limbs as easily if they're cut off, which is something he does in character.



      But if DIO starts with his Joestar blood at the greatest high, and has 9 seconds of timestop, either KC will erase all but 1 second of time stop and DIO would keep evolving passed the 10 second mark overcoming KC, or since Time Stop doesn't happen in "time" but "no time" it gets skipped when Diavolo skips and erases time anyways

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    • Has it ever been explained that Time Stop extends the actual time by 9 seconds (in DIO's case) but everything except himself is suspended for that period of time, or it allows DIO to move for self-perceived period of 9 seconds within an instant without extending the time itself?

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    • KingCrimsonvsTheWorld

      This is an explanation of how the fight would go. Diavolo wins. End of discussion.

      Diavolo disappears from the erased time, as shown with Aerosmith's bullets NOT hitting him. Dio would move (and attack) exactly as intended during the time stop, but Diavolo just will have never been there.
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    • KC is the most overrated stand but here ya go



      vs a human

      Dio : can easily kill him in the time stop

      in no time and go back to his orginaiiiiiil location 



      Diavolo : will use his ability to go "behind" the human 

      Kakoin him but everyone will see him close (<= 2 meters) to the guy



      tbh time stop is more effective 

      the only way to win is to somehow stop time too

      edit: also if the time stop got erased

      dio can use it just after the time erase (because it didnt happen anyway)

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    • No, things do happen within the time frame. The process of Time Erasure is that the time flows normally for 10 seconds before it's cut out but it leaves the state of reality as it is at the end. Time Stop will still enter cooldown but DIO won't remember it if the ability is used within the erased time.

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    • btw my fav stand is killah queen

      CrimsonDiavolo can you do something useful instead of "i agrEE"  "I %100 AgrEE" to anyone praise KC  stop spamming dude

      Anthonycomen  wow

      shouldnt the result stays the same anyway?

      he would die

      or ya fans always changes his ability to whatever you want nvm.

      (you cant end the discussion, what the.)

      also, Dio CAN use his time stop with a really short cooldown 

      something between 2 seconds (as you know jotaro beat him in 2 seconds before Dio use the ability again)

      and 6 seconds (or something close enough to trick people)

      ؛for example when he used that guy as a driver, 

      everytime the guy tried to escape, DIO stopped time

      bringed him back to the driver seat more than once .

      even if king creams-on erased time, DIO can still use his time stop again, (as you know 10 seconds erase) ,then Kakdonut him again.

      bruh IT JUST WORKS.

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    • The problem is whether Time Stop suspends everything for 9 seconds or creates 9 seconds for DIO to move in a normally perceived instant.

      The former means that outside of erased time, Diavolo is completely vulnerable to Time Stop.

      On the other hand, the latter would provide a more significant advantage for Diavolo as he can easily catch Time Stop within his abilities since it's just an instant to him, no matter how long Time Stop goes. This gives DIO a much smaller window of opportunity to land a hit.

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    • Pretty sure it's the latter.

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    • Xdhoomy12x wrote:
      btw my fav stand is killah queen

      CrimsonDiavolo can you do something useful instead of "i agrEE"  "I %100 AgrEE" to anyone praise KC  stop spamming dude

      Anthonycomen  wow

      shouldnt the result stays the same anyway?

      he would die

      or ya fans always changes his ability to whatever you want nvm.

      (you cant end the discussion, what the.)

      also, Dio CAN use his time stop with a really short cooldown 

      something between 2 seconds (as you know jotaro beat him in 2 seconds before Dio use the ability again)

      and 6 seconds (or something close enough to trick people)

      ؛for example when he used that guy as a driver, 

      everytime the guy tried to escape, DIO stopped time

      bringed him back to the driver seat more than once .

      even if king creams-on erased time, DIO can still use his time stop again, (as you know 10 seconds erase) ,then Kakdonut him again.

      bruh IT JUST WORKS.

      We saw for example how Buccellati still moved as to hit King Crimson during the erased time, which means everything *except* King Crimson interacts with everything else the same, but King Crimson DISAPPEARS from the erased time. To quote Diavolo: "I erased time and -->leapt<-- past it ". As I said previously, you can see this when Aerosmith shot at Risotto and Diavolo, he just went and erased half a second from which he disappeared, so the bullets hit Risotto only. If they fought, Dio would move and attack Diavolo exactly as he intended with his time stop and everything, but Diavolo just will have never been there in the first place, and Dio won't remember having done any of those actions either.

      King Crimson has an A in power and speed, which means it's perfectly comparable to The World in strength.

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    • bruh

      i am out 

      yall just trying to defend a plot holed stand 

      every single one of you

      give a whole new explanation 

      ZW time stops cooldown is way faster than the time erase one

      just after  the time erase DIO will just stop time again

      and kakdount kingcrimson bruh

      also most improtantly

      bruh my English

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    • Xdhoomy12x wrote:
       

      every single one of you

      give a whole new explanation 

      It's called brainstorming, genius. If you can't handle any of it, the most you can try to do is to go to my post and say which one is how Time Stop works and why it should work like that, and maybe we'll go from there on how the fight will progress, instead of straight up repeating the middle of the fight like a broken record.

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    • This isn't a matter of whose ability works in what way, it's a matter of the nature of time. Diavolo cannot erase The World's time stop because there is no time for King Crimson to erase. King Crimson can erase up to 10 seconds of time, sure, but time is not flowing during The World's time stop. Diavolo could erase the time before and after the time stop, but not during.

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    • Diavolo cant "negate" time stop, however he can avoid the effects of the time stop by erasing time

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    • Well technically, King Crimson erases time itself but it doesn't interfere with the rate of time. If Time Stop activates within the erased time, it will still happen regardless. It's just that how Diavolo would perceive DIO's movement depends on how Time Stop works - (1) whether it just suspends everything for 9 seconds or (2) it literally stops time. If DIO activates Time Stop within the erased time frame to move from point A to B and the ability works like: (1), Diavolo should be able to see DIO walking from A to B since he's not influenced by Time Stop.

      (2), Diavolo would definitely see DIO suddenly blinking from A to B since it happens within 0 normal second.

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    • I think scenario 2 is more likely to happen.

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    • It's definitely scenario 2. Time is literally stopped. Epitaph could not forsee the actions DIO takes during time stop nor could King Crimson erase them. If Diavolo's ability is to erase time, he cannot erase actions that occur when time is stopped. There'd be nothing for him to erase.

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    • Essentially, if DIO activated the time stop during a period of time that King Crimson is going to erase, it would "pause" King Crimson's ability, allowing DIO to do what he pleases, until the time stop wore off. Then King Crimson's ability would continue as normal.

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    • So, would DIO remember what he does when the time is stopped within the time frame? Even though it's zero second, it's still within the time frame and King Crimson's ability is to literally rip it out.

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    • But it's not within the time frame. Time straight up isn't moving. It's not within any time frame because it's not within time.

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    • Actions taken within time stop have consequences,unlike actions taken in erased time.So the fraction of time in which everything happens at once after time stop could be erased.

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    • Your correct in that the actions do have consequences, but they all happen during stopped time. Like, DIO definitely donutted Kakyoin during stopped time. It's not like all of DIO's actions occur in a fraction of a second when time resumes, they happen while time isn't passing. Otherwise DIO would just be slowing down time instead of stopping it.

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    • Knowing that Araki is a bit of physics geek, what if Za Warudo is a Stand with physics-based ability that negates gravity that acts on DIO in order to stop time in his perspective?

      When we look at a black hole from earth, we will see that light stops at event horizon due to time dilation effect caused by infinite gravitational force. More importantly, we see light stops there because we are subjected to less gravitational force compared to the light at event horizon. If Za Warudo's ability completely negates any gravitational forces that affect only DIO, then time would stop in his perspective. In this case, stopped time would still be within the time frame.

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    • "Araki is a bit of physics geek"

      "black hole....  infinite gravitational force"

      Clearly you dont know how gravity WORKS :D

      BRUUUH

      well even if KC erased time and diavolo went behind DIO just before the time erase ends like usual,  DIO would just stop time again after its ends

      Bruh bruh

      bruh bruh bruh

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    • How would Dio even know that Diavolo is behind him before being doughnotted by him?

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    • Xdhoomy12x wrote:
       

      Clearly you dont know how gravity WORKS :D

      BRUUUH


      Well, I just said infinite for laymen stuff. You seem to know how gravity works. Enlighten me then, Einstein.

      And do you know that it takes time and alert consciousness for Time Stop to activate? What if King Crimson's chop already makes it halfway in the air near the shoulder while deactivating Time Erasure? What's more is that DIO was already too stunned when critically injured at his knees by Star Platinum. Imagine getting halved by the chop.

      Seriously, do you have anything that's actually substantial instead of these snarky comments at people?

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    • As much as it's appreciated, I'm fairly certain that we can't apply standard physics to The World's time stop. I mean, if it worked according to physics, light wouldn't be moving either and therefore DIO shouldn't be able to see during stopped time. But if course he can, so I think we can rule out quantum physics.

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    • I guess the answer would be yes, but only if King Crimson's ability was activated before DIO stopped time. If DIO stopped time and donutted Diavolo before he could time skip, however, Diavolo would be a dead man. The way I see it, King Crimson's time skip is like a nerfed time stop. Instead of stopping time and his opponents, King Crimson brings the start and end of his ability together, kind of like taking a piece of string, representing time, and bringing two sections of it together, leaving a sort of pocket or loop (I do not mean a time loop). All the actions that characters took during the time skip would happen instantaneously, and would therefore confuse them. Diavolo, on the other hand, would be able to move and think freely during the skipped time, like DIO would during his time stops. If DIO and Diavolo were to meet and do battle, DIO would surely emerge victorious. DIO is just too tanky to get killed by even King Crimson's donutting. Diavolo, on the other hand, is just a human, probably.

      Edit: Hol up.

      Neither King Crimson nor Epitaph can stop time. Therefore, Diavolo can't sense stopped time like DIO and Jotaro. So even if he activated his ability, if DIO's plan was to stop time and donut him, he wouldn't be able to see it coming and get donutted in his time skip. An onlooker would just see Diavolo do whatever he does, then get sent flying with a hole in his chest.

      "SHINEII, DIAVOLO!"

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    • VinceC87 wrote:

      So even if he activated his ability, if DIO's plan was to stop time and donut him, he wouldn't be able to see it coming and get donutted in his time skip.

      Diavolo can see the future though, so even if he can't see what happens within the timestop itself he would still see that he's about to be attacked (as he'd see a hole instantly appear in him) and could thus skip time to avoid it.

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    • Kingasdfg wrote:
      As much as it's appreciated, I'm fairly certain that we can't apply standard physics to The World's time stop. I mean, if it worked according to physics, light wouldn't be moving either and therefore DIO shouldn't be able to see during stopped time. But if course he can, so I think we can rule out quantum physics.

      Yeah, that too. Throwing knives wouldn't be possible under that condition. I guess that Za Warudo only gave him the idea about gravity, not the ability to manipulate it.

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    • GrizonII wrote:
      VinceC87 wrote:

      So even if he activated his ability, if DIO's plan was to stop time and donut him, he wouldn't be able to see it coming and get donutted in his time skip.

      Diavolo can see the future though, so even if he can't see what happens within the timestop itself he would still see that he's about to be attacked (as he'd see a hole instantly appear in him) and could thus skip time to avoid it.

      I understand that Diavolo would be able to see that he gets donutted. However, he'd be basically powerless to defend himself from it because Time Stop would render him immobile. DIO has nine, maybe ten seconds in stopped time. That and the zero gravity Time Stop provides would surely allow DIO to catch and donut Diavolo many times over. So, Diavolo would be able to see the result, but certainly not the cause. Therefore, he wouldn't be able to keep it from happening.

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    • So, it's either:

      A) in a realm of stopped time, all abilities have to pause. This means that Time Erasure can't cut out the moment of stopped time.

      B) by the time DIO stops time, he just basically continues from an already erased point in time, making Time Stop an event meant to be deleted. This is due to how Time Erasure works: It cuts out future instead of the past. So, upon activation, the time is already cut.

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    • Bakeera wrote:
      So, it's either:

      A) in a realm of stopped time, all abilities have to pause. This means that Time Erasure can't cut out the moment of stopped time.

      B) by the time DIO stops time, he just basically continues from an already erased point in time, making Time Stop an event meant to be deleted. This is due to how Time Erasure works: It cuts out future instead of the past. So, upon activation, the time is already cut.

      I guess I'm cool with either of those scenarios, they both seem like they'd work!

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    • Sticky Fingers Ari wrote:
      Bakeera wrote:
      So, it's either:

      A) in a realm of stopped time, all abilities have to pause. This means that Time Erasure can't cut out the moment of stopped time.

      B) by the time DIO stops time, he just basically continues from an already erased point in time, making Time Stop an event meant to be deleted. This is due to how Time Erasure works: It cuts out future instead of the past. So, upon activation, the time is already cut.

      I guess I'm cool with either of those scenarios, they both seem like they'd work!

      But I Think Like This: 

      1) Time Stoped Only Can Works When Has The "Time" To Stop , But KS Epitah Can See A Damage Form TW And "Erase" 10 Seconds, That Time Has Been Cut And Dissapear Don't Has Time TW Can Stop, Dio Can't Remember That . But Diavolo Still Lose By Dio Vampire Durability (4-6 Chance If Continute Attacks Head And Don't Hit By Dio) ,Fist Time Diavolo Don't Attack Dio Head Or If Attack Head Him Can't Destroy Brain With One Attack (KS Attack Polnareff Eyes , If He KS Finger Can Through The Eyes To Attack Brain He Will Do It) But It Still Negative One Dio Brain Part Works Look Like Jotaro Punch To Dio Head And Dio Can't Standing.

      2) Time Stoped "Can Works",And Dio "Remember" When KS Epitah Can See A Damage Form TW And "Erase" 10 Seconds, But Attack of TW Through Diavolo Because Time Erase Before, Flying Knife Of Dio Still Negative( Knife Just Still Flying When Time Resume Or Through Diavolo If Knife Throw Nearly Because It Still Flying Slowly Little Bit And Stop), Diavalo Still Has 2-8 Chance.

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    • Are we talking about if King Crimson can negate The World's stop time? Because yes King Crimson can. (But if KC erases the 10 seconds and The World never stops time, that mean theres no cooldown to stop time when erase time ends)

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    • Sticky Fingers Ari wrote:
      It is impossible to negate stopped time for 3 reasons:

      1. Only Dio would be able to move

      2. There would be no time to skip

      3. There is no known Stand that can completely negate time, only: Stop, Skip, Loop, and Accelerate.

      You forget GER, the stand that negated the time skip

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    • Engardian wrote: I’m pretty sure Diavolo would come out on top. He can see 10 seconds into the future. Say DIO is going to use Za Warudo. Diavolo is looking into the future, and notices that DIO does a bunch of stuff instantaneously. Diavolo can’t see the stopped time, but he could probably figure out that something was up, and erase DIO’s time stop before it happened. Because DIO stops time outside of Za Warudo, he would be affected by King Crimson before he could do anything. In the erased space, DIO would use Za Warudo, but it wouldn’t count. Therefore, DIO’s entire time spent Warudo-ing would be negated. It doesn’t matter what DIO does during the time stop, as King Crimson has already erased that time, so nothing happening during in that period has any effect. Now, DIO’s special power has been negated, but his stand still has great stats. DIO and Diavolo would still have to duke it out the old fashioned way. While DIO has a fatal weakness to sunlight, I doubt Diavolo would be caught dead in broad daylight, haha. So I think Diavolo would best him in the time stand-off(haha), but whatever happens after that is up in the air.

      Except kc doesn't see 10 seconds into the future. It sees what will happen 10 seconds from when he uses the ability. All Epitaph would allow him to see is Diavolo drowning in his own blood.

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    • also Diavolo can only see what happen after 10 seconds 

      and he cant do it, if the enemy is close 

      btw without this ability, theres no way he can win against DIO

      i mean everything he see will happen (including the damage)

      what is the point of erasing time 

      after all ,this stand just works 

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    • Diavolo predicting how he'll get damaged and how much damage he'll recieve is essential to know how much time he needs to skip and/or where he needs to go to avoid it.

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    • Xdhoomy12x
      Xdhoomy12x removed this reply because:
      my reply is bad time to try again
      12:38, July 8, 2019
      This reply has been removed
    • "it is only the results that remain in this world!"

      orange boi got attacked in erased time

      but didnt that kill him after all

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    • This is already concluded. Yes you can erease stopped time, because even if time is stoped there are thing ocurring in there. But even if you cant, Diavolo could justo change his position before time is stopped so DIO still would act unconsciously and try to attack Diavolo in the position he have before time skip. Because the Time Stop happens in 0 seconds of real time, Diavolo would have the remaning time to posicion himself and punch DIO's head when time resumes. And no, DIO needs to activate consciously the time stop, if he gets attacked unexpectedly he would be already dead when he realizes that King Crimson is attacking him, just like in the fight of Jotaro vs DIO, when Polnareff appear of nowhere and pierced DIO's head, in wich case DIO himself says that if he pierced harder he could destroy his head. Now put the same case but with a punch of King Crimson that could easily destroy a humans body or a head, similar like he do to Gold Experience in the end of VA. Just the fact that both King Crimson and Star Platinum have A probes this. Especially taking on count that Diavolo always attack trying to kill.

      Even then, if you say that Diavolo rather would go to punch his chest in his attemp to kill DIO, we need to remember that DIO needs blood to regenarate critical wounds, just like we see in part 3. So, if we are taking a neutral scenario with no people besides them, DIO would be wounded, and with Epitaph seeing whatever he try to do (Like try to stop time to counterattack), and Diavolo would again erease time and punching another critical hit, that probably be in the head, taking in count that Diavolo already see that attacking other places is pointless. Add to this that in all the fight DIO knowladge of Diavolo's power would be nule or would be to late for him to make something.

      If we talk about DIO with Joeastar blood it would be differente, but that not would be a fair scenario.

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    • King Crimson can't erase stopped time. That makes no sense. There's no "time" to erase. If DIO's ability simply compressed all of his actions into a fraction of a second, then King Crimson could erase it, but that's not what happens. The World completely stops the flow of time. Actions that occur here do not occur during "time" and therefore would not be erased when time is erased.

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    • King Crimson can skip the time stop from being activated itself, not the stopped time.

      While you could say it essentialy skips the stopped time (cuz in reality it never happened), but this just means that The World/SP didnt use any stamina to stop time and can stop it again right after time has been skipped, because it was not put on cooldown. 

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    • Gakamis wrote: King Crimson can skip the time stop from being activated itself, not the stopped time.

      While you could say it essentialy skips the stopped time (cuz in reality it never happened), but this just means that The World/SP didnt use any stamina to stop time and can stop it again right after time has been skipped, because it was not put on cooldown. 

      But this opens up a whole new can of worms. During the erased time, people other than Diavolo still behave as they're fated to (whatever Epitaph shows then doing.) But if DIO is fated to stop time, what does he accomplish? If he were fated to, say, push a chair over, would that still happen?

      The only consequences that are avoided are ones that apply to Diavolo, but if DIO was fated to move other objects during stopped time, but the stopped time was erased, would those objects still move? Or would King Crimson be able to defy fate in things other than himself now?

      Honestly I think I'm in favor of the time stop working during erased time because it's easier to understand lol.

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    • Jotaro could win against diavolo, be it "random encounter", "bloodlust showdown", or even "diavolo seeking to assasinate jotaro". Let me explain.



      Most people have probably forgot Star Platinum's first & original ability, his passive "Ultra-keen-precog/precision".

      This ability is what let him & starplatinum "gradually react & adapt" to dio's time-stop ability, and eventually, "learn" how to do it. Eventually developing Starplatinum: The World.

      Despite starplatinum's stand archetype being a currency between "major characters", its "ultra-keen-precog/precision" skill is what make starplatinum & jotaro have a higher "sensorial/paranormal/psionic grasp" between their shared consciousness.




      I can imagine the scene.

      Jotaro travels to italy alongside koichi & starts seeking for whatever happened to polnareff, the latter not entering contact to speedwagon's foundation for a long time started this matter.

      Jotaro eventually knows about this "passione" organization by running over any of it's stand user henchmen, and manage to killing-spree several of then, looking for this "boss" person who commands passione from the shadows.  

      His experience in stardust crusaders journey & his "lack of awareness" in morioh's campaing, has turned him more "vigilante" about "stand actions" in his surroundings during this "gangstar campaing", making star platinum almost always active "inside him", exploiting it's "ultra-keen-precog/precision".

      He's dealing with stand users trained to assasinate, that can come from anywhere, as dangeous as dio's hitmans & servants




      The information about this "jotaro person" reaches diavolo. Including his time-controling stand & that there's this other short-guy that can manage "3 different stands", who joined bucciarati group.

      Diavolo sends doppio in order to execute this jotaro person, the latter who decided to act alone, while koichi takes the passive investigation while on bucciarati group.

      Doppio eventually met jotaro & diavolo starts instructing doppio with epitaph & king crimson's arms procedure in order assasinate this person, while disguised/hidden.

      This proceeds to fail several times. For some reason, epitaph never shows doppio a vision of him "attempting to assault jotaro" whenever it gets disguised/ready for a sneak attack. Doppio always seems retreating in those.

      Diavolo then manages to kick-in a narrative for doppio in order to "switch in" and take the lead.

      This time, diavolo is full control, still disguised as doppio, with king crimson full power.

      Diavolo manages to look at epitaph, sees himself aproaching jotaro in timeskip (doppio appearence, with a colegial costume).

      King crimson appears on jotaro's back. Star platinum's arm appears from jotaro's back & counters king crimson "arm backstab", then fully appearing & outclassing king crimson with it's ora-barrage. Diavolo gets multiple blunt-trauma injuries over his body in the process.

      The diavolo's epitaph vision ends with jotaro still normally walking foward, around 1.5 seconds later jotaro feels a "sudden thud", as it had a hypnic jerk/jumpscare, instantly all the images of everything that starplatinum has done appeared in his memory, by summoning itself & fighting other stand as "subcounsciousness reaction" over his "ultra-keen precog/precision, over a course of 10 seconds.


      Given that scenario, Diavolo has some of these options:

      1 - Instead of attacking, using his time-skip to avoid an encounter with jotaro, then "retreats". Start gathering passione's most loyal members to elaborate a strategy for killing/weakening jotaro for him. Jotaro eventually joining bucciarati & crippled polnareff. Both jotaro & koichi influence would avoid several casualties, giving a upper hand to bucciarati's team in the "Requiem Arrow" race.



      2 - Keep tracking jotaro as "colegial doppio disguise", while watching more scenarios where he gets overpowered & have to time-skip everytime in order to change fate where "the worst for him comes".



      3 - "Confront destiny", trying to "force" his victory over star platinum. Using diavolo's "untargetable/intangible" body, operating "chance" & creating openings for kingcrimson's feint-attacks at jotaro's body, only to be blocked & tanked by star platinum ultra-precog/precision over kingcrimson's time-skip spatial changes.

      Meanwhile jotaro's counsciousness is fighting in starplatinum's, within time, his body & mind gets even more "immersed" in the spatial changes caused by each of king crimson's time-skip as the time passes, until starplatinum eventually:
      a) Becomes capable of stopping time during the time-skips;
      b) Develops a new stand ability, Star Platinum: King Crimson.

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    • Pintassilgo wrote:
      Jotaro could win against diavolo, be it "random encounter", "bloodlust showdown", or even "diavolo seeking to assasinate jotaro". Let me explain.


      Most people have probably forgot Star Platinum's first & original ability, his passive "Ultra-keen-precog/precision".

      This ability is what let him & starplatinum "gradually react & adapt" to dio's time-stop ability, and eventually, "learn" how to do it. Eventually developing Starplatinum: The World.

      Despite starplatinum's stand archetype being a currency between "major characters", its "ultra-keen-precog/precision" skill is what make starplatinum & jotaro have a higher "sensorial/paranormal/psionic grasp" between their shared consciousness.




      I can imagine the scene.

      Jotaro travels to italy alongside koichi & starts seeking for whatever happened to polnareff, the latter not entering contact to speedwagon's foundation for a long time started this matter.

      Jotaro eventually knows about this "passione" organization by running over any of it's stand user henchmen, and manage to killing-spree several of then, looking for this "boss" person who commands passione from the shadows.  

      His experience in stardust crusaders journey & his "lack of awareness" in morioh's campaing, has turned him more "vigilante" about "stand actions" in his surroundings during this "gangstar campaing", making star platinum almost always active "inside him", exploiting it's "ultra-keen-precog/precision".

      He's dealing with stand users trained to assasinate, that can come from anywhere, as dangeous as dio's hitmans & servants




      The information about this "jotaro person" reaches diavolo. Including his time-controling stand & that there's this other short-guy that can manage "3 different stands", who joined bucciarati group.

      Diavolo sends doppio in order to execute this jotaro person, the latter who decided to act alone, while koichi takes the passive investigation while on bucciarati group.

      Doppio eventually met jotaro & diavolo starts instructing doppio with epitaph & king crimson's arms procedure in order assasinate this person, while disguised/hidden.

      This proceeds to fail several times. For some reason, epitaph never shows doppio a vision of him "attempting to assault jotaro" whenever it gets disguised/ready for a sneak attack. Doppio always seems retreating in those.

      Diavolo then manages to kick-in a narrative for doppio in order to "switch in" and take the lead.

      This time, diavolo is full control, still disguised as doppio, with king crimson full power.

      Diavolo manages to look at epitaph, sees himself aproaching jotaro in timeskip (doppio appearence, with a colegial costume).

      King crimson appears on jotaro's back. Star platinum's arm appears from jotaro's back & counters king crimson "arm backstab", then fully appearing & outclassing king crimson with it's ora-barrage. Diavolo gets multiple blunt-trauma injuries over his body in the process.

      The diavolo's epitaph vision ends with jotaro still normally walking foward, around 1.5 seconds later jotaro feels a "sudden thud", as it had a hypnic jerk/jumpscare, instantly all the images of everything that starplatinum has done appeared in his memory, by summoning itself & fighting other stand as "subcounsciousness reaction" over his "ultra-keen precog/precision, over a course of 10 seconds.


      Given that scenario, Diavolo has some of these options:

      1 - Instead of attacking, using his time-skip to avoid an encounter with jotaro, then "retreats". Start gathering passione's most loyal members to elaborate a strategy for killing/weakening jotaro for him. Jotaro eventually joining bucciarati & crippled polnareff. Both jotaro & koichi influence would avoid several casualties, giving a upper hand to bucciarati's team in the "Requiem Arrow" race.



      2 - Keep tracking jotaro as "colegial doppio disguise", while watching more scenarios where he gets overpowered & have to time-skip everytime in order to change fate where "the worst for him comes".



      3 - "Confront destiny", trying to "force" his victory over star platinum. Using diavolo's "untargetable/intangible" body, operating "chance" & creating openings for kingcrimson's feint-attacks at jotaro's body, only to be blocked & tanked by star platinum ultra-precog/precision over kingcrimson's time-skip spatial changes.

      Meanwhile jotaro's counsciousness is fighting in starplatinum's, within time, his body & mind gets even more "immersed" in the spatial changes caused by each of king crimson's time-skip as the time passes, until starplatinum eventually:
      a) Becomes capable of stopping time during the time-skips;
      b) Develops a new stand ability, Star Platinum: King Crimson.

      I'm gonna asume that all this shit is a joke. A very expansive joke. There are so many thing wrong that is hard to find a place to beguin. 

      First of all. Star Platinum never had a ability that let him to "adapt" to others abilitys, I understand if is your teory but is far away from being somthing even possible. Jotaro's ability is stop time, that's all. Is the same case with DIO, who get the stand but discovered that The World can stop time several months later after obtaining his stand, Stardust Crusaders occurred in at least 2 or 3 months, so Jotaro eventually discovers his ability to stop time in the fight with DIO. That's all, nothing more.

      Even then, I agree that Star Platinum has this "precognitive" ability. But is mostly that has very good time reaction and having much speed make it look like a "precognitive" ability. That's all. In most of the times Jotaro needs to have some type of awareness to allow Star Platinum to react. 



      Other thing, Epitaph can't see King Crimson eraseing time. That's the whole thing with King Crimson ereased time, is a ability that let Diavolo untie himself from destiny, so it would make no sense that Epitaph, a stand that sees the future (destiny) would see Ereased Time. Just like all the GER thing in the end of VA. 



      Yo are just overpowering Jotaro for literal no reason.

      And no, even Star Platinum would have problems to react after King Crimson's time skip and blocking a full atack of King Crimson would be a problem, even for Jotaro, especially because Diavolo can use Epitaph to see if Jotaro even attemps to strike back, so he just needs to avoid it.

      If Diavolo has this shity ability, it would be easy to defeat the rat stand user himself with his ability, but even then he gets pierced be the rat. No sense.



      Diavolo wins over Jotaro (Especially because he has no vampire ability to regenerate himself).

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    • IcePony wrote: First of all. Star Platinum never had a ability that let him to "adapt" to others abilitys, I understand if is your teory but is far away from being somthing even possible. Jotaro's ability is stop time, that's all. Is the same case with DIO, who get the stand but discovered that The World can stop time several months later after obtaining his stand, Stardust Crusaders occurred in at least 2 or 3 months, so Jotaro eventually discovers his ability to stop time in the fight with DIO. That's all, nothing more.

      Even then, I agree that Star Platinum has this "precognitive" ability. But is mostly that has very good time reaction and having much speed make it look like a "precognitive" ability. That's all. In most of the times Jotaro needs to have some type of awareness to allow Star Platinum to react. 

      Other thing, Epitaph can't see King Crimson eraseing time. That's the whole thing with King Crimson ereased time, is a ability that let Diavolo untie himself from destiny, so it would make no sense that Epitaph, a stand that sees the future (destiny) would see Ereased Time. Just like all the GER thing in the end of VA. 


      Yo are just overpowering Jotaro for literal no reason.

      And no, even Star Platinum would have problems to react after King Crimson's time skip and blocking a full atack of King Crimson would be a problem, even for Jotaro, especially because Diavolo can use Epitaph to see if Jotaro even attemps to strike back, so he just needs to avoid it.

      If Diavolo has this shity ability, it would be easy to defeat the rat stand user himself with his ability, but even then he gets pierced be the rat. No sense.


      Diavolo wins over Jotaro (Especially because he has no vampire ability to regenerate himself).


      Star platinum's main ability is the "ultra precision/precog" thing, not starplatinum: the world.
      I'm stating all jotaro's main assets since part 3, based on it's previous experiences during stardust crusader's & morioh's campaing, "AS 'PART 3 JOTARO'" would be, just as someone would put the "8X years old part 2 joseph", with still-praticizing hamon & hermit purple, against pucci. 

      Jotaro's nerfed states from part 4 & part 6 is a common plot-device practice to "show-off" the next employed assets on the "current protagonist/deuteragonists".
      Just like what happens in boruto manga, naruto needing to go kurama-chakra mode against any character, and still doing nothing above street-level (when it should be a casual continental buster, with planet level durability).


      This ultra-precog/precision ability is what let starplatinum "react" to theworld's time-stop.
      In their final fight, each time dio stopped time, he hesitated several times, didn't attacked jotaro right in because he "felt" something "not right".
      This was starplatinum (and those magnets trick), that could still partially move during time-stop.

      Both jotaro & starplatinum "ADAPTED" during dio's fight, to eventually develop starplatinum: the world.

      I suppose this "adaptation thing" is a side-effect to the precog/precision ability, which only apply to time-space related abilities. Just like the several "biometric interactions" the objects goldexperience gives life to, or crazydiamond being able to change the "shapes, components, directions & symmetries" of things with his "restoration" ability.
      Furthemore, in the very end that's how he was capable to "deal with dio", starplatinum hadn't "starplatinum: the world" until after the "road roller" thing.
      It was able to trade blows with theworld during it's time-stop, without having a time-stop ability in the first place.

      The same would happen fighting against diavolo.
      Using epiphet, diavolo would ALWAYS see starplatinum reacting to both him & king crimson's aproach & attacks "to some degree" (it would "sense" a presence "phasing" in their direction), both during & after time-skip.

      Diavolo's "blood throw" would be blocked by starplatinum, seeing it as a stand ability.
      Dio & the world knives throw were way more faster & dangerous, and a "less time-aware starplatinum" could block most of it.
      Starplatinum could still "push/pull" jotaro's "unaware" body in order to dodge.

      Jotaro would still "feel confused" after the first timeskip, but starplatinum witnessed & experienced everything, and those would "thud" to his memory, as a "jumpscare/hypnic jerk", after this specific "first" time-skip end.
      The "adaptation" part would start from the next time-skips and so on.


      If diavolo decides to start it's assault & sneak-attack jotaro regardless of it's visions, the fight would "last long enough" for starplatinum to develop "starplatinum: king crimson".
      Or if jotaro manages to just "time-stop" after one of those time-skip ends. 

      While "roaming over italy" alone, based on stardust crusaders campaign, jotaro is with starplatinum's head & arms "always-on" (part 3 jotaro don't necessarily need starplatinum to "jump high"), but "inside of him", following it's carefulness by killing-spree over passione (as explained in previous comment).


      Unless we're talking about the plot-nerfed jotaro & starplatinum from part 4 & 6. There's even a "new stat charts" on each part to explicitly show the nerfed starplatinum.
      Starplatinum's ultra-precog/precision skill is long forgotten in those parts (save some "casual" exceptions).

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    • I too will believe this Star Platinum adpatation is a shitty joke. Do you believe in the dumb joke that Jotaro's ability is to copy abilitys?

      Star Platinum has time stop because its the same type of stand as Za Warudo. It only activated during the final battle because Star Platinum's self preservation. (Now for the shit reason why Dio wasn't able to move in stop time I'll never know)

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    • ¿You have some type of evidence from the manga/anime that proves that star platinum true ability is the "ultra precision/precog" thing? Because otherwise you are just using a theory as a canon thing. Even if you do resarch in wikias or even in manga scans, its just that Star Platinum has his own consciousness and fast reaction, but nothing about a "precognitive" shit. Thing like Star Platinum punching knifes is just the same precision+power+speed combination, just like The World literally. 


      And is impossible to anything to react in the ereased time (Unless you are GER), because that's the whole point of the ability, all thing that are in ereased time are destinated to do the things that are supossed to do, like: If Epitaph sees that Star Platinum blocks King Crimson attemps to throw blood from the right, Diavolo just have to do it from the left side and Star Platinum can do literally nothing to change that, unless he has an ability releated to fate manipulation, it would be unless to do anything.


      And if you are using a narrative jotaro post part 3/4 versus Diavolo that would also mean that you are talking about a very nerfed Jotaro, especially because it has passed 2 years since Diamond is Unbreakable and just to give an example, the time stop would have like 1 or 2 seconds.

      AND EVEN if Jotaro has this shitty ability to learn how to use temporal abilitys (Thing that he don't have btw) Diavolo would (And probably is going) to kill Jotaro in only 2 or 3 attemps, even with the capability of Star Platinum, King Crimson is presumibly more strong that Star Platinum himself, and considarating that is not that this is a surprise attack, but an attack attemped after a time skip in wich yoy lost conscience, it would be easier to King Crimson to pierce Jotaro or Star Platinum himself, especially taking in count Epitaph.

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    • the guys with time-related abilites

      can notice it 

      jotaro saw DIO in his time stop 

      pucci noticed jotaro's spear or whatever that thing

      if diavolo erased time

      then DIO or jotaro will know where did he go

      just like how pucci noticed the bruh

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    • Xdhoomy12x wrote: the guys with time-related abilites

      can notice it 

      jotaro saw DIO in his time stop 

      pucci noticed jotaro's spear or whatever that thing

      if diavolo erased time

      then DIO or jotaro will know where did he go

      just like how pucci noticed the bruh

      Following that logic then shouldn’t Jotaro have been able to see Pucci’s movements perfectly fine in accelerated time as well? Just because someone can see the enemy’s movements in one time power’s effects doesn’t mean they can see in every type of time ability.

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    • if diavolo moves as fast as pucci

      then sure 

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    • Xdhoomy12x wrote:
      if diavolo move as fast as pucci

      then sure 

      What does this even mean? If Diavolo moved as fast as Pucci with MIH, Star Platinum still wouldn't be able to see their movements. Theres like no connection.

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    • you missed the point buddy

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    • You kinda ignored what i said.



      As i said, the "adaptation bullshit" you call, in my covenant is a side-effect of his "ultra-precog", just like crazy diamond's capacity of chage & disassemble complex chemical composites, giving it other forms at his will (even though his precision is not that high). And gold experience "multiple interactions" with biological forms.




      "Battle Precog" is a common asset in character stats. Characters like boruto, "kamen riders", endou mamoru have some degree of precog on their "stats".

      Characters like alibaba saluja & any "the flash" have enough of "precog" that a single second can take ages for them to pass. Alibaba's physical stats at "normal form" & without any "magic/rukh amp" is around street level+, even so he can turn 1 second into 100 years for his perspective, just by thinking.



      Starplatinum just have "a lot" of battle precog.

      A lot enough that even though theworld was shown to be superior than starplatinum, starplatinum "reacted" properly both in normal time (pre "SW:TW" aquisition), and during theworld's timestop.

      A time stop takes just a "instant".

      Starplatinum was able to react into this instants, not only once (and remember, BEFORE learning SW:TW).



      King crimson or diavolo are going take way more than any "instants" to not only think, use epitaph, activate timeskip, and "proceed to give a maneuvered & properly delievered "sneak attack" at some jotaro supposed "blind spot".

      Starplatinum will eventually become "aware" of those actions, and react properly. Jotaro being aware of "things happening" or not.

      "Instants" are something that starplatinum is above theworld & kingcrimson (and epitaph).




      There's not a single "HUMANOID STAND" in part 5 that can "dispute" sheer strength, durability, speed or reactions/precog with theworld, starplatinum, crazy diamond, redhotchillipepper, and even heaven'sdoor (but just speed).

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    • "King Crimson is presumibly more strong that Star Platinum himself" oh god, why people assumes that king crimson is the strongest stand based on him punching through people is beyond me, that's the only feats in strenght he have in the ENTIRE part 5, just that, even killer queen did that to koichi, and by that logic crazy diamond is the strongest stand because he was able to donut two people at the same time, there's NOTHING to claim that strenght-wise king crimson is the strongest, on the other hand, we have A LOT of feats and the MANGA itself saying star platinum is the number 1 stand in strenght, speed and precision, here's a page from part 4 stating that, not some random character saying, it's a description of star platinum by the author himself 
      Spstats
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    • now comparing just the stands, whitout abilities, king crimson LOSES in every way to star platinum, star platinum is stronger (as i stated above), he is way more fast (faster than the speed of light witch is stated in his stats pages in part 6 and by scale when he fought polnareff with anubis), in durability KC have an E, the range are the same and star platinum is way more precise than KC, but i know some people think that "they both have A in power, so they are equal", and that is completely wrong, the letters in the stats page indicates how good a stand is in that category, with A being very good, it doesn't state that they we're equal, to show that look at a page from the battle agains the world, with him and star platinum disputing in strenght and what happened  (THE WORLD was buffed by joseph blood and also have A in power) 
      Stforca1
      SpforcA2
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    • and star platinum CAN beat king crimson even whitout using time stop, but how you may ask?, king crimson HAVE a weakness agains fast stands and fast attacks, it was demonstrated twice in part 5, the first time is when he was going to attack polnareff and polnareff used the blood trick to know when time was erased, and counteratacked instantly, diavolo himself said that if he was a bit closer he would have taken severe damage(image 1)
      Va color v15 079
      , and when requiem trowed that stone at him, the stone was so fast the he was not able to see the attack and barely dodged because of epitaph, and even so the stone damaged and pierced his hand(image 2 and 3)
      Va color v17 037
      Va color v17 039
      , also he can only forecast 10 seconds in the future, not after that, buccelatti with sticky fingers took advantage of that and landed a blow on king crimson head, imagine the scenario, diavolo and jotaro know everything about each other and their powers, jotaro uses the blood trick to see when time is erased, diavolo throws blood on jotaro face to blind him and incapacitate him to count the droplets of blood, moves behind jotaro, resumes the time skip and goes to atack jotaro, but at the moment he is going to atack star platinum reacts and punch diavolos with his speed and power, killing him, but how could star platinum counter attack king crimson? because star platinum has a conscience of it's own, showed when he protected jotaro from the shot at point blank range in the beggining of part 3, when jotaro was in a coma in part 6, he was still protecting jotaro even with him unconsious, and the best part, at the end of part 3, when dio throwed blood on jotaro eyes and attacked him, but star platinum counter atacked the world kick, even with jotaro blinded by blood EDIT: just another proof that star platinum can be fast enough to counter attack king crimson attack, he did the exaclty same thing against the world, the world was going to attack jotaro with the karate chop (basically the same attack king crimson used on bruno) and star platinum was fast enough to react and counter attack and donut the world (last two images
      Tw1
      Tw2
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    • now, considering both stand abilities, who would win? and the asnwer is..... jotaro, but why? king crimson can erase the stopped time doesn't he? nope, he can't, first of all, these two pages(image 1 and 2) are from part 6, they both describes star platinum power, (just a reminder, this is not some random character saying it, it the description of the stand, it's araki words on it), they both states "time stop is the strongest and invincible ability that has EVER existed" , araki himself stated that star platinum can only be defeated by another time stop (https://youtu.be/dTh1woTmDqs?t=311) (and yeah, i know about made in heaven, but made in heaven is whole other level of hax, and to defeat jotaro it was needed a wholelot of things, star platinum resistance dropped to an E because of the coma, made in heaven shortened the time stop, his daughter was used as bait against him, but he could be able to defeat pucci with annasui help if he sacrificed jolyne, and made in heaven was also a evolution, star platinum is a base stand, just that), also the games is a good way to see some what if scenarios, like gold experience requiem nulifing made in heaven acceleration in all star batle, and in eyes of heaven, time stop is a direct counter of time skip (https://youtu.be/_OQBNn1RfvA?t=340), so i think it's safe to assume with all that that time stop is the superior ability
      So color v02 065
      Jotaro1
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    • some people just assumes the moment king crimson activates time erasure, the next 10 seconds become instantly erased, thus erasing even the stopped time, but nope, that's wrong, him erasing just 0.5 seconds of time, or he resuming his ability the moment he was going to attack polnareff but continued erasing time when he saw the arrow, just proves the contrary, both king crimson and star platinum affects the instant they use their abilities, the present time, star platinum stops the present time, king crimson erases the present time, so if both abilities affects the same thing, the same moment, what ability would have the advantage? time would be erased or stopped? and for me the answer is stopped, based on everything i listed above, so to end this, i imagine 3 differents scenarios to this fight, the first one i listed here, jotaro using the blood trick and killing diavolo, the second one is the one i listed above, jotaro uses time stop and kills diavolo again, and the third, jotaro was enjoying his day, not aware he is in a fight,diavolo appears from nowhere and sneak kill jotaro with time skip

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    • The principal problem I see with your arguments is that in the first place that Araki says x or y dosen't make it just because he says it. I know that he is the author, but being honest saying something even it is the author without more explanation is no enough to make it really true. But we should take it. Other thing is that you say that even if they have both an A in power they don't have the same powe, that is true, but you dont have anything to prove that King Crimson is less powerful that Star Platinum, we never see any limit to King Crimson stengh so the only thing to get an aproximity is the A in his stats, same with Speed and the precision has a "?" in the stat, so, how you prove that Star Platinum is superior outside of Araki saying it, an easy example of King Crimson precision is in the battle with Metallica, he throw a scissors to an invisible Risotto that was far away and hit exactly. The las thing is that you say that the Time Skip and the Time Stop would activate at the same type. And that would never be the case since Diavolo always has Epitaph to predict the percances of 10 seconds in the future and taking in account that time stop occures in like 0 seconds of real time he just need to see the consecuences of the action after time stop (Like Jotaro teleporting o seeing himself death) to know thar he has to use Time Skip before it. So Diavolo would always be the one who activates first his ability.

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    • he is the author

      i mean he can nerf or buff the ability however he wants

      look at king crimson first appearnce

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    • Authors often don't know how strong are characters that they created. For example, Flash from DC comics: authors stated, that he can't run faster than light, but we know, that this isn't truth.

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    • but in my coments i listed how  king crimson is inferior in speed against star platinum, and i even showed the scan of that moments,1 is when polnareff counter atack his atack and hit him, diavolo even says that if he was more closer he would be severe injured, and 2, when requiem trowed that rock on him, he said that he couldn't see the atack and just dodged because of epitaph, and even predicting the atack he got hit, star platinum speed is far more greater than that, as i listed in my coment, he is faster than the speed of light, showed in part 3 when he fought silver chariot buffed by anubis, in his fight against darby where star platinum got all that things and darby coud'nt even see it, in his fight against the zombies, where star platinum showed he was able to leave after images and defend jotaro in all his sides against a simunatenous zombie atack (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7CBpFyR9H4&t=1s) and in his stats page confirming it again, also for strenght, whe do have a page in part 4 literally saying that star platinum is the number one in speed, strenght and precision, (i posted it too in my coments), and if we don't go by the author coments, then even by feats king crimson doesn't do that much, there is nothing to say that king crimson is stronger, but on the other hand we have a tons of feats and informations on star platinum, now for time stop vs time skip, even if he activates his powers before star platinum, he stills erases the present moment, as i said, he erases the present moment, the present time, it woud'nt matter if he activates his abilities before, he doesn't erases 10 seconds into the future instantly, and even if he activated time erasure before, the moment jotaro activates time stop time would be stopped, at that present moment, time woulld be stopped, and not erased, i believe that time stop gets the upper hand because of the information i listed in my other coments.

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    • IcePony wrote:
      Other thing is that you say that even if they have both an A in power they don't have the same powe, that is true, but you dont have anything to prove that King Crimson is less powerful that Star Platinum, we never see any limit to King Crimson stengh so the only thing to get an aproximity is the A in his stats, same with Speed and the precision has a "?" in the stat, so, how you prove that Star Platinum is superior outside of Araki saying it, an easy example of King Crimson precision is in the battle with Metallica, he throw a scissors to an invisible Risotto that was far away and hit exactly. 


      Even in the already avaiable anime material, it's shown that not only kingcrimson's speed is inferior to the "beretta gun" bullets mista was using, but even though kingcrimson "redirected" the bullets directions, his arms were pierced by them.

      A direct hit from a small volley of emerald splash would tear kingcrimson like this: 
      World-Trigger-158-Image-5






      I also don't think kingcrimson is able to properly protect diavolo from regular MP/soldier shotting it with a SMG. The time-skip can still enter on cooldowns, even at periodic activations.

      Even during the time-skip, a MP/soldier won't keep idle (unless it's a fodder character) seeing a weird guy running/teleporting at it's direction while gunshots phase over him without harm, or sudden random changes of trajectories (kingcrimson blocking a SMG will make the bullets pierce him, doing a big loss of blood for diavolo). 



      Diavolo nor kingcrimson are "fast enough" to act "accordingly" epitaph's vision against a "multiple direction stretching" hierophantgreen, about to perform a 11sec+ duration 20m+ radius emerald splash stream.



      The "erased time" only means diavolo & kingcrimson are physically intangible, but they can still be affected by "periodic" factors to some degree, such stickyfingers ziper, inalated poison, wounds, etc.



      As not only myself, but other ppl here stated, starplatinum not only is autonomous stand with a conscience of it's own, but it also have it's ultra-precog/precision ability that enabled him to "resist" and "adapt" against a time-space related ability. Plus it's able to share it's "perspective" to jotaro's neural system (such the four senses).

      If starplatinum throws a literal basketball at kingcrimson during the time-skip's cooldown, kingcrimson could "punch it back", but the impact on kingcrimson's hand will cripple diavolo's whole arm & shoulder structure, knocking him down.

      The same (or worse) would happen with a knee, feet or shin.






      An observation i'd like to make.
      Silverchariot isnt an autonomous stand, it relies on polnareff's perspective & depends totally on his "manual mind commands" in order to act.

      Chariot requiem's "drunken zombie march" was the most autonomous thing silverchariot was ever capable to pull off.



      If silverchariot had any "minimal" autonomy capacity such any of the jojo's & most jobro's stands, the fight against avdol would be "around a draw", ending with maybe jotaro's intervention.

      Both iggy & avdol would still be alive.

      Hol horse & j. geil (hanged man) would've been killed at their first encounter in a 2v2 w/ avdol.

      And polnareff would've escaped italy with "way less scars", but not before severing one of diavolo arm/hand at least.

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    • Pintassilgo wrote: Even in the already avaiable anime material, it's shown that not only kingcrimson's speed is inferior to the "beretta gun" bullets mista was using, but even though kingcrimson "redirected" the bullets directions, his arms were pierced by them.

      When is he shown to be inferior in speed? As far as I can recall he blocked and/or dodged all of them, and the only ones he took damage from were the ones softened by Spice Girl, which had nothing to do with his speed.

      it also have it's ultra-precog/precision ability

      Since when does Star Platinum have any sort of precognition?


      Also I think you’re making a lot of assumptions regarding Silver Chariot’s hypothetical capabilities (although I don’t think that’s particularly relevant to the topic). While Silver Chariot is specifically noted to not be able to have Polnareff’s see through its eyes for instance I don’t see how that would affect any of those situations in a notable way.

      Like regardless of what it did I don’t see any way it could’ve saved Avdol as even if it acted with its own senses it wouldn’t have been able to notice Cream any better than Iggy or Avdol could.

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    • Star Platinum is strong. One of the strongest stands in Jojo universe. Now, Diavolo can't see the time stop. And everyone e says: King Crimson is physical strongest than SP/The World because King Crimson egains all enemie
      D9z98y7-315887a1-0484-4b7b-b2c7-593546d78ca7
      s with one single punch, right? That's is wrong. You're remember the finale battle of SC? DIO punching Kakyoin so hard that tronsforming him into a donut. Same than Diavolo.
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    • Nubinubi
      Nubinubi removed this reply because:
      mistake
      12:03, August 5, 2019
      This reply has been removed
    • Imho: The winner is whoever uses his ability second. Let's make an example with a timeline, starting from e.g. 0:00:00.

      0:00:00 - KC and TW start the fight.
      0:00:05 - TW decides to stop the time. During this he donuts KC.
      0:00:06 - KC is dead.
      0:00:10 - Epitaph shows himself dead on this second. He uses his ability.

      From now on, KC is "out of time". He cannot be attacked, nor he can attack. Again, they still did not do anything, the time is still on 0:00:00. It's just TW only intents to attack after 5 seconds.

      So, KC is out of time, like a ghost. Time goes on.
      0:00:05 - TW stops the time and attacks. He can't hurt KC, since KC is already out of time.
      0:00:06 - TW sees KC dead on the floor, DIO probably monologues.
      0:00:09 - KC positions himself behind TW, preparing to attack.
      0:00:10 - KC is in time again, his ability ends. He attacks from behind, while DIO is confused.

      So in this case, KC wins purely because DIO used his ability first. Though this is possible only on the first try, when DIO is not aware (if they are not aware of their powers), or if the "time skip" ends right on DIO's ability ending (if they are aware of each other's powers), i.e. cooldown starts (they have some arbitrary minimal "cooldown" on skills, right?). That would require KC to use less than 10 seconds for his ability, which is possible for him.

      It can go the other way around: if KC uses his ability first, DIO sees he suddenly vanished, and uses timestop. Since KC just used his ability, he can only accept getting donutted. Therefore, it becomes a baiting game: whoever baits his opponent to use the ability first.

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    • To sum things up. If diavolo tried to attack/assault/"out-maneuver" jotaro or dio, whether during or after epiphet's vision in order to "try change the fate", the battle would end up like this .  Theworld is just too fast.  Starplatinum do not need to stop time in order to "keep track" of diavolo & kingcrimson's movement during "time-skip".





      Again.

      Starplatinum not only is a autonomous stand with a counsciousness of it's own, but also has it's ultra-precog/precision ability (both factors gives several side-effects to jotaro's neural system) which allowed it to properly react against superior time/space manipulation stands like both madeinheaven & theworld, even considering that the latter was "slighty superior" in speed.


      Starplatinum's main power IS NOT TIME-STOP, it's ability to stop time is a SIDE-EFFECT consequence of it's MAIN ABILITY (which i generously call "ultra-precog/precision).

      Just like was done with dio. Araki had to purposely nerf jotaro in other parts to not become too op.

      Otherwise, like the previous joestars, he would not only be a "natural born hamon adept/apt-to-learn", but would also be able to cast abilities such starplatinum: bites the dust.

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    • god we went over this already. SP MAIN ABILITY IS TIME STOP NOT ULTRA PRECOG/PRECISION

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    • This thread is pretty interesting. Right now, I’m just going to list off what all possible scenarios are based on what’s been discussed.

      A.) In Diavolo’s World of Skipped Time, DIO instantly moves/teleports in Diavolo’s perspective.

      0:00:00: Diavolo vs DIO starts. Diavolo uses his ability to see into the future, and sees himself being donut-ed. He activates Time Skip.

      0:00:00-0:00:10: Diavolo, in his world of skipped time, moves away from his position, and sees DIO instantly teleport in front of where he once was and The World’s fist in what should’ve been his stomach. Diavolo positions himself behind DIO.

      0:00:11: After Time has skipped, DIO experiences a brief ‘Wait what the frick happened’ moment, and due to his initial surprise, cannot react as Diavolo beheads the vampire with a clean chop. Either that or he was blinded with blood and thus would instinctively attack in front of him when Diavolo was behind him.

      (This is assuming that Diavolo gets that ‘terrifying’ vibe that most characters seem to get from DIO, and thus sees it necessary to end his life quickly.)

      Even DIO isn’t immune to the psychological effects of a Time Skip. Bruno was able to deal with it (escaping with his Pillar Punch) since it was his third time experiencing it, and so was Polnareff since he had his blood trick. This was DIO’s first time experiencing something that could even remotely affect his ability, and thus would be shocked; we saw how he reacted when he saw just Jotaro’s finger move, so I think a brief moment of shock would be enough to seal DIO’s fate.

      From what I remember, Stand-User limbs are equivalent to Stand limbs as seen in the Giorno vs B.I.G. when Giorno'ss fists are lost, so are GE’s, meaning that even if DIO was still alive, The World would just be a floating head. Thus, Diavolo wins since DIO needs blood to revive from critical wounds. Since DIO’s body was still ‘developing’ due to Jonathan’s Hamon blood, I doubt DIO could use his laser eyes, and even then Diavolo could just see into the future.

      B.) In Diavolo’s World of Skipped Time, DIO only THINKS he’s stopped time, but since he’s already under fate’s control, has to do the actions he would normally do during Stopped Time.

      0:00:00: Diavolo vs DIO starts. Diavolo uses his ability to see into the future, and sees himself being donut-ed. He activates Time Skip.

      0:00:00-0:00:10: Diavolo, in his world of skip time, moves away from his position. However, instead of seeing DIO instantly teleport to him, he instead sees him slowly walking/floating towards him. Diavolo would be confused, probably have a little wounded pride due to how his Epitaph is supposed to be invincible, but regardless would end up the same as Scenario A.

      C.) In Diavolo’s World of Skipped Time, DIO ‘pauses’ Diavolo’s ability, thus allowing DIO to move freely and to damage Diavolo.

      0:00:00: Diavolo vs DIO starts. Diavolo uses his ability to see into the future, and sees himself being donut-ed. He activates Time Skip, and moves accordingly.

      0:00:04~: DIO stops time. In his perspective, Diavolo would have been suddenly teleported from his original position. DIO would initially confused, but then shrug it off, donut Diavolo as intended, and win the fight, ending King Crimson's ability.

      Of course, in this scenario, DIO would probably try to convince Diavolo to work for him, seeing such a powerful ability, and given how their philosophies both work and contradict with one another, that would work out as well as you’d expect.

      D.) In Diavolo’s World of Skipped Time, DIO ‘pauses’ Diavolo’s ability, thus allowing him to roam freely. However, in this scenario, it’s under the assumption that Diavolo exists in a completely different plane of existence, meaning he can’t be damaged.

      0:00:00: Diavolo vs DIO starts. Diavolo uses his ability to see into the future, and sees himself being donut-ed. He activates Time Skip, and moves accordingly.

      0:00:04: DIO Stops time. In his perspective, Diavolo would have been suddenly teleported from his original position. DIO would initially confused, but then shrug it off, and attempt to donut Diavolo. He fails, and instead The World’s fist phases through him. DIO is shocked beyond belief, and before he can formulate an understanding of Diavolo’s ability, his Time Stop ends. Either that or he sends knives at Diavolo, which would work about as well as one would expect.

      0:00:05: Diavolo’s perspective will return to normal, and will then suddenly see DIO teleporting in front of him. Diavolo is initially shocked, but recomposes himself. He checks Epitaph within his world of stopped time, and can only see DIO monologuing. Diavolo shrugs to himself, and continues his actions.

      0:00:11: DIO’s memories of his Time Stop stay, but he suddenly sees Diavolo vanish in front of him. Once again filled with shock, Diavolo successfully beheads DIO and wins.

      I think that’s the gist of the scenarios, right? Personally I believe that Scenario A would happen. Even if DIO’s Time Stop happens in 0 seconds, that 0 seconds still exists with a period of time.

      With an example, think of it like a roll of Toilet Paper.

      Let’s say that Diavolo’s ability allow him to skip 10 squares of Toilet Paper (truly the most evil ability). DIO’s entire Time Stop resides within those tiny cracks in the Toilet Paper that allow the squares to be easily removed in the first place. It’s not an actual square, but the tiny crack in between it, in other words, 0 Toilet Squares.

      Diavolo’s ability lets him skip up to 10 Squares of Toilet Paper. DIO’s ability resides within those 10 Squares of Toilet Paper, and thus his ability is immediately skipped.

      Of course, this is all under the assumption that Scenario A is true. Sorry if this sounded like a stupid example, and I’m probably a bit wrong with some of this, but I just wanted to list my own understanding of this thread so far. From my understanding, Diavolo wins in most of these scenarios, unless there’s something about Vampire abilities I forgot about. Sorry if I screwed something up here.

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    • Sticky Fingers Ari wrote:
      SexHaver4200 wrote:
      Diavolo is able to see 10 seconds into the future, right? With this knowledge, he should be able to predict when Dio actives time stop regardless of how long he takes during it, and then erase the time in which the time stop would happen. Or so I believe.
      No, remember that while seeing 10 seconds into the future there are no seconds. This is because DIO would have stopped time already. The vision would be himself dead instantly, just like any normal person would see of The World (minus Jotaro of course!).

      He would see them at least activate their abilities

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    • Patfv wrote:
      and star platinum CAN beat king crimson even whitout using time stop, but how you may ask?, king crimson HAVE a weakness agains fast stands and fast attacks, it was demonstrated twice in part 5, the first time is when he was going to attack polnareff and polnareff used the blood trick to know when time was erased, and counteratacked instantly, diavolo himself said that if he was a bit closer he would have taken severe damage(image 1)
      Va color v15 079
      , and when requiem trowed that stone at him, the stone was so fast the he was not able to see the attack and barely dodged because of epitaph, and even so the stone damaged and pierced his hand(image 2 and 3)
      Va color v17 037
      Va color v17 039
      , also he can only forecast 10 seconds in the future, not after that, buccelatti with sticky fingers took advantage of that and landed a blow on king crimson head, imagine the scenario, diavolo and jotaro know everything about each other and their powers, jotaro uses the blood trick to see when time is erased, diavolo throws blood on jotaro face to blind him and incapacitate him to count the droplets of blood, moves behind jotaro, resumes the time skip and goes to atack jotaro, but at the moment he is going to atack star platinum reacts and punch diavolos with his speed and power, killing him, but how could star platinum counter attack king crimson? because star platinum has a conscience of it's own, showed when he protected jotaro from the shot at point blank range in the beggining of part 3, when jotaro was in a coma in part 6, he was still protecting jotaro even with him unconsious, and the best part, at the end of part 3, when dio throwed blood on jotaro eyes and attacked him, but star platinum counter atacked the world kick, even with jotaro blinded by blood EDIT: just another proof that star platinum can be fast enough to counter attack king crimson attack, he did the exaclty same thing against the world, the world was going to attack jotaro with the karate chop (basically the same attack king crimson used on bruno) and star platinum was fast enough to react and counter attack and donut the world (last two images
      Tw1
      Tw2

      Jotaro knew where DIO was unlike the case you are presenting here

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    • Zedlyfier wrote:

      This thread is pretty interesting. Right now, I’m just going to list off what all possible scenarios are based on what’s been discussed.

      A.) In Diavolo’s World of Skipped Time, DIO instantly moves/teleports in Diavolo’s perspective.

      0:00:00: Diavolo vs DIO starts. Diavolo uses his ability to see into the future, and sees himself being donut-ed. He activates Time Skip.

      0:00:00-0:00:10: Diavolo, in his world of skipped time, moves away from his position, and sees DIO instantly teleport in front of where he once was and The World’s fist in what should’ve been his stomach. Diavolo positions himself behind DIO.

      0:00:11: After Time has skipped, DIO experiences a brief ‘Wait what the frick happened’ moment, and due to his initial surprise, cannot react as Diavolo beheads the vampire with a clean chop. Either that or he was blinded with blood and thus would instinctively attack in front of him when Diavolo was behind him.

      (This is assuming that Diavolo gets that ‘terrifying’ vibe that most characters seem to get from DIO, and thus sees it necessary to end his life quickly.)

      Even DIO isn’t immune to the psychological effects of a Time Skip. Bruno was able to deal with it (escaping with his Pillar Punch) since it was his third time experiencing it, and so was Polnareff since he had his blood trick. This was DIO’s first time experiencing something that could even remotely affect his ability, and thus would be shocked; we saw how he reacted when he saw just Jotaro’s finger move, so I think a brief moment of shock would be enough to seal DIO’s fate.

      From what I remember, Stand-User limbs are equivalent to Stand limbs as seen in the Giorno vs B.I.G. when Giorno'ss fists are lost, so are GE’s, meaning that even if DIO was still alive, The World would just be a floating head. Thus, Diavolo wins since DIO needs blood to revive from critical wounds. Since DIO’s body was still ‘developing’ due to Jonathan’s Hamon blood, I doubt DIO could use his laser eyes, and even then Diavolo could just see into the future.

      B.) In Diavolo’s World of Skipped Time, DIO only THINKS he’s stopped time, but since he’s already under fate’s control, has to do the actions he would normally do during Stopped Time.

      0:00:00: Diavolo vs DIO starts. Diavolo uses his ability to see into the future, and sees himself being donut-ed. He activates Time Skip.

      0:00:00-0:00:10: Diavolo, in his world of skip time, moves away from his position. However, instead of seeing DIO instantly teleport to him, he instead sees him slowly walking/floating towards him. Diavolo would be confused, probably have a little wounded pride due to how his Epitaph is supposed to be invincible, but regardless would end up the same as Scenario A.

      C.) In Diavolo’s World of Skipped Time, DIO ‘pauses’ Diavolo’s ability, thus allowing DIO to move freely and to damage Diavolo.

      0:00:00: Diavolo vs DIO starts. Diavolo uses his ability to see into the future, and sees himself being donut-ed. He activates Time Skip, and moves accordingly.

      0:00:04~: DIO stops time. In his perspective, Diavolo would have been suddenly teleported from his original position. DIO would initially confused, but then shrug it off, donut Diavolo as intended, and win the fight, ending King Crimson's ability.

      Of course, in this scenario, DIO would probably try to convince Diavolo to work for him, seeing such a powerful ability, and given how their philosophies both work and contradict with one another, that would work out as well as you’d expect.

      D.) In Diavolo’s World of Skipped Time, DIO ‘pauses’ Diavolo’s ability, thus allowing him to roam freely. However, in this scenario, it’s under the assumption that Diavolo exists in a completely different plane of existence, meaning he can’t be damaged.

      0:00:00: Diavolo vs DIO starts. Diavolo uses his ability to see into the future, and sees himself being donut-ed. He activates Time Skip, and moves accordingly.

      0:00:04: DIO Stops time. In his perspective, Diavolo would have been suddenly teleported from his original position. DIO would initially confused, but then shrug it off, and attempt to donut Diavolo. He fails, and instead The World’s fist phases through him. DIO is shocked beyond belief, and before he can formulate an understanding of Diavolo’s ability, his Time Stop ends. Either that or he sends knives at Diavolo, which would work about as well as one would expect.

      0:00:05: Diavolo’s perspective will return to normal, and will then suddenly see DIO teleporting in front of him. Diavolo is initially shocked, but recomposes himself. He checks Epitaph within his world of stopped time, and can only see DIO monologuing. Diavolo shrugs to himself, and continues his actions.

      0:00:11: DIO’s memories of his Time Stop stay, but he suddenly sees Diavolo vanish in front of him. Once again filled with shock, Diavolo successfully beheads DIO and wins.

      I think that’s the gist of the scenarios, right? Personally I believe that Scenario A would happen. Even if DIO’s Time Stop happens in 0 seconds, that 0 seconds still exists with a period of time.

      With an example, think of it like a roll of Toilet Paper.

      Let’s say that Diavolo’s ability allow him to skip 10 squares of Toilet Paper (truly the most evil ability). DIO’s entire Time Stop resides within those tiny cracks in the Toilet Paper that allow the squares to be easily removed in the first place. It’s not an actual square, but the tiny crack in between it, in other words, 0 Toilet Squares.

      Diavolo’s ability lets him skip up to 10 Squares of Toilet Paper. DIO’s ability resides within those 10 Squares of Toilet Paper, and thus his ability is immediately skipped.

      Of course, this is all under the assumption that Scenario A is true. Sorry if this sounded like a stupid example, and I’m probably a bit wrong with some of this, but I just wanted to list my own understanding of this thread so far. From my understanding, Diavolo wins in most of these scenarios, unless there’s something about Vampire abilities I forgot about. Sorry if I screwed something up here.

      I actually like the way you've described this, I'm just more inclined to believe either scenario C or D.

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    • Zedlyfier wrote:

      This thread is pretty interesting. Right now, I’m just going to list off what all possible scenarios are based on what’s been discussed.

      A.) In Diavolo’s World of Skipped Time, DIO instantly moves/teleports in Diavolo’s perspective.

      0:00:00: Diavolo vs DIO starts. Diavolo uses his ability to see into the future, and sees himself being donut-ed. He activates Time Skip.

      0:00:00-0:00:10: Diavolo, in his world of skipped time, moves away from his position, and sees DIO instantly teleport in front of where he once was and The World’s fist in what should’ve been his stomach. Diavolo positions himself behind DIO.

      0:00:11: After Time has skipped, DIO experiences a brief ‘Wait what the frick happened’ moment, and due to his initial surprise, cannot react as Diavolo beheads the vampire with a clean chop. Either that or he was blinded with blood and thus would instinctively attack in front of him when Diavolo was behind him.

      (This is assuming that Diavolo gets that ‘terrifying’ vibe that most characters seem to get from DIO, and thus sees it necessary to end his life quickly.)

      Even DIO isn’t immune to the psychological effects of a Time Skip. Bruno was able to deal with it (escaping with his Pillar Punch) since it was his third time experiencing it, and so was Polnareff since he had his blood trick. This was DIO’s first time experiencing something that could even remotely affect his ability, and thus would be shocked; we saw how he reacted when he saw just Jotaro’s finger move, so I think a brief moment of shock would be enough to seal DIO’s fate.

      From what I remember, Stand-User limbs are equivalent to Stand limbs as seen in the Giorno vs B.I.G. when Giorno'ss fists are lost, so are GE’s, meaning that even if DIO was still alive, The World would just be a floating head. Thus, Diavolo wins since DIO needs blood to revive from critical wounds. Since DIO’s body was still ‘developing’ due to Jonathan’s Hamon blood, I doubt DIO could use his laser eyes, and even then Diavolo could just see into the future.

      B.) In Diavolo’s World of Skipped Time, DIO only THINKS he’s stopped time, but since he’s already under fate’s control, has to do the actions he would normally do during Stopped Time.

      0:00:00: Diavolo vs DIO starts. Diavolo uses his ability to see into the future, and sees himself being donut-ed. He activates Time Skip.

      0:00:00-0:00:10: Diavolo, in his world of skip time, moves away from his position. However, instead of seeing DIO instantly teleport to him, he instead sees him slowly walking/floating towards him. Diavolo would be confused, probably have a little wounded pride due to how his Epitaph is supposed to be invincible, but regardless would end up the same as Scenario A.

      C.) In Diavolo’s World of Skipped Time, DIO ‘pauses’ Diavolo’s ability, thus allowing DIO to move freely and to damage Diavolo.

      0:00:00: Diavolo vs DIO starts. Diavolo uses his ability to see into the future, and sees himself being donut-ed. He activates Time Skip, and moves accordingly.

      0:00:04~: DIO stops time. In his perspective, Diavolo would have been suddenly teleported from his original position. DIO would initially confused, but then shrug it off, donut Diavolo as intended, and win the fight, ending King Crimson's ability.

      Of course, in this scenario, DIO would probably try to convince Diavolo to work for him, seeing such a powerful ability, and given how their philosophies both work and contradict with one another, that would work out as well as you’d expect.

      D.) In Diavolo’s World of Skipped Time, DIO ‘pauses’ Diavolo’s ability, thus allowing him to roam freely. However, in this scenario, it’s under the assumption that Diavolo exists in a completely different plane of existence, meaning he can’t be damaged.

      0:00:00: Diavolo vs DIO starts. Diavolo uses his ability to see into the future, and sees himself being donut-ed. He activates Time Skip, and moves accordingly.

      0:00:04: DIO Stops time. In his perspective, Diavolo would have been suddenly teleported from his original position. DIO would initially confused, but then shrug it off, and attempt to donut Diavolo. He fails, and instead The World’s fist phases through him. DIO is shocked beyond belief, and before he can formulate an understanding of Diavolo’s ability, his Time Stop ends. Either that or he sends knives at Diavolo, which would work about as well as one would expect.

      0:00:05: Diavolo’s perspective will return to normal, and will then suddenly see DIO teleporting in front of him. Diavolo is initially shocked, but recomposes himself. He checks Epitaph within his world of stopped time, and can only see DIO monologuing. Diavolo shrugs to himself, and continues his actions.

      0:00:11: DIO’s memories of his Time Stop stay, but he suddenly sees Diavolo vanish in front of him. Once again filled with shock, Diavolo successfully beheads DIO and wins.

      I think that’s the gist of the scenarios, right? Personally I believe that Scenario A would happen. Even if DIO’s Time Stop happens in 0 seconds, that 0 seconds still exists with a period of time.

      With an example, think of it like a roll of Toilet Paper.

      Let’s say that Diavolo’s ability allow him to skip 10 squares of Toilet Paper (truly the most evil ability). DIO’s entire Time Stop resides within those tiny cracks in the Toilet Paper that allow the squares to be easily removed in the first place. It’s not an actual square, but the tiny crack in between it, in other words, 0 Toilet Squares.

      Diavolo’s ability lets him skip up to 10 Squares of Toilet Paper. DIO’s ability resides within those 10 Squares of Toilet Paper, and thus his ability is immediately skipped.

      Of course, this is all under the assumption that Scenario A is true. Sorry if this sounded like a stupid example, and I’m probably a bit wrong with some of this, but I just wanted to list my own understanding of this thread so far. From my understanding, Diavolo wins in most of these scenarios, unless there’s something about Vampire abilities I forgot about. Sorry if I screwed something up here.

      Interesting perspective. You have changed my mind about a few things, namely DIO's ability to kill Diavolo within the time skip. However, vampires are creatures of fiction, so why should Diavolo be expecting one? Why would Diavolo instantly move to cutting off DIO's head? I'd believe Diavolo would pull a classic donut, and then be utterly shocked when DIO walks it off, wounded but not nearly close to being killed. If not the donut but a chop, basically the same situation, except even more disbelief because a chop like that should be instant death. To this day I still haven't figured out how Bruno didn't die. Anyways, DIO's vampiric abilities give him the advantage. Either Diavolo negerundayos because "how could fate put me up against a monster that can shrug off my King Crimson, the most powerful stand in the world?" or DIO kills him or subdues him with a flesh bud.

      Now, even if Diavolo just happened to be feeling frisky that day, and did chop off DIO's head, he's also got DIO's floating head to worry about (how did it do that?) as well as DIO's nasty vampire neck veins. You know, the Esidisi worm-lookin ones? Those might be trouble for King Crimson, whose range is only 2 meters, I think. If DIO tags him once, it might act like a flesh bud. Then DIO subdues him, gets back onto his body, and either makes him an agent of DIO or gives him the donut. I just think DIO's too supernatural, and The World too strong a stand, for Diavolo to land a decisive win. Even if Diavolo does manage to chop off DIO's head, DIO can maybe just Za Warudo and float on outta there. Besides, DIO (and vampires in general) have survived killer head blows, like the chop-in-two DIO recieved in Part 1, the Silver Chariot head pokes both Vanilla Ice and DIO recieved, and the head-cracker Star Platinum gave him. I think the only answer would be total head dissolution/splattering. Then again, how would Diavolo know that?

      P.S. I agree, Scenario A (in which Diavolo sees DIO instantly teleport) is more likely.

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    • VinceC87 wrote:
      Zedlyfier wrote:

      This thread is pretty interesting. Right now, I’m just going to list off what all possible scenarios are based on what’s been discussed.

      A.) In Diavolo’s World of Skipped Time, DIO instantly moves/teleports in Diavolo’s perspective.

      0:00:00: Diavolo vs DIO starts. Diavolo uses his ability to see into the future, and sees himself being donut-ed. He activates Time Skip.

      0:00:00-0:00:10: Diavolo, in his world of skipped time, moves away from his position, and sees DIO instantly teleport in front of where he once was and The World’s fist in what should’ve been his stomach. Diavolo positions himself behind DIO.

      0:00:11: After Time has skipped, DIO experiences a brief ‘Wait what the frick happened’ moment, and due to his initial surprise, cannot react as Diavolo beheads the vampire with a clean chop. Either that or he was blinded with blood and thus would instinctively attack in front of him when Diavolo was behind him.

      (This is assuming that Diavolo gets that ‘terrifying’ vibe that most characters seem to get from DIO, and thus sees it necessary to end his life quickly.)

      Even DIO isn’t immune to the psychological effects of a Time Skip. Bruno was able to deal with it (escaping with his Pillar Punch) since it was his third time experiencing it, and so was Polnareff since he had his blood trick. This was DIO’s first time experiencing something that could even remotely affect his ability, and thus would be shocked; we saw how he reacted when he saw just Jotaro’s finger move, so I think a brief moment of shock would be enough to seal DIO’s fate.

      From what I remember, Stand-User limbs are equivalent to Stand limbs as seen in the Giorno vs B.I.G. when Giorno'ss fists are lost, so are GE’s, meaning that even if DIO was still alive, The World would just be a floating head. Thus, Diavolo wins since DIO needs blood to revive from critical wounds. Since DIO’s body was still ‘developing’ due to Jonathan’s Hamon blood, I doubt DIO could use his laser eyes, and even then Diavolo could just see into the future.

      B.) In Diavolo’s World of Skipped Time, DIO only THINKS he’s stopped time, but since he’s already under fate’s control, has to do the actions he would normally do during Stopped Time.

      0:00:00: Diavolo vs DIO starts. Diavolo uses his ability to see into the future, and sees himself being donut-ed. He activates Time Skip.

      0:00:00-0:00:10: Diavolo, in his world of skip time, moves away from his position. However, instead of seeing DIO instantly teleport to him, he instead sees him slowly walking/floating towards him. Diavolo would be confused, probably have a little wounded pride due to how his Epitaph is supposed to be invincible, but regardless would end up the same as Scenario A.

      C.) In Diavolo’s World of Skipped Time, DIO ‘pauses’ Diavolo’s ability, thus allowing DIO to move freely and to damage Diavolo.

      0:00:00: Diavolo vs DIO starts. Diavolo uses his ability to see into the future, and sees himself being donut-ed. He activates Time Skip, and moves accordingly.

      0:00:04~: DIO stops time. In his perspective, Diavolo would have been suddenly teleported from his original position. DIO would initially confused, but then shrug it off, donut Diavolo as intended, and win the fight, ending King Crimson's ability.

      Of course, in this scenario, DIO would probably try to convince Diavolo to work for him, seeing such a powerful ability, and given how their philosophies both work and contradict with one another, that would work out as well as you’d expect.

      D.) In Diavolo’s World of Skipped Time, DIO ‘pauses’ Diavolo’s ability, thus allowing him to roam freely. However, in this scenario, it’s under the assumption that Diavolo exists in a completely different plane of existence, meaning he can’t be damaged.

      0:00:00: Diavolo vs DIO starts. Diavolo uses his ability to see into the future, and sees himself being donut-ed. He activates Time Skip, and moves accordingly.

      0:00:04: DIO Stops time. In his perspective, Diavolo would have been suddenly teleported from his original position. DIO would initially confused, but then shrug it off, and attempt to donut Diavolo. He fails, and instead The World’s fist phases through him. DIO is shocked beyond belief, and before he can formulate an understanding of Diavolo’s ability, his Time Stop ends. Either that or he sends knives at Diavolo, which would work about as well as one would expect.

      0:00:05: Diavolo’s perspective will return to normal, and will then suddenly see DIO teleporting in front of him. Diavolo is initially shocked, but recomposes himself. He checks Epitaph within his world of stopped time, and can only see DIO monologuing. Diavolo shrugs to himself, and continues his actions.

      0:00:11: DIO’s memories of his Time Stop stay, but he suddenly sees Diavolo vanish in front of him. Once again filled with shock, Diavolo successfully beheads DIO and wins.

      I think that’s the gist of the scenarios, right? Personally I believe that Scenario A would happen. Even if DIO’s Time Stop happens in 0 seconds, that 0 seconds still exists with a period of time.

      With an example, think of it like a roll of Toilet Paper.

      Let’s say that Diavolo’s ability allow him to skip 10 squares of Toilet Paper (truly the most evil ability). DIO’s entire Time Stop resides within those tiny cracks in the Toilet Paper that allow the squares to be easily removed in the first place. It’s not an actual square, but the tiny crack in between it, in other words, 0 Toilet Squares.

      Diavolo’s ability lets him skip up to 10 Squares of Toilet Paper. DIO’s ability resides within those 10 Squares of Toilet Paper, and thus his ability is immediately skipped.

      Of course, this is all under the assumption that Scenario A is true. Sorry if this sounded like a stupid example, and I’m probably a bit wrong with some of this, but I just wanted to list my own understanding of this thread so far. From my understanding, Diavolo wins in most of these scenarios, unless there’s something about Vampire abilities I forgot about. Sorry if I screwed something up here.

      Interesting perspective. You have changed my mind about a few things, namely DIO's ability to kill Diavolo within the time skip. However, vampires are creatures of fiction, so why should Diavolo be expecting one? Why would Diavolo instantly move to cutting off DIO's head? I'd believe Diavolo would pull a classic donut, and then be utterly shocked when DIO walks it off, wounded but not nearly close to being killed. If not the donut but a chop, basically the same situation, except even more disbelief because a chop like that should be instant death. To this day I still haven't figured out how Bruno didn't die. Anyways, DIO's vampiric abilities give him the advantage. Either Diavolo negerundayos because "how could fate put me up against a monster that can shrug off my King Crimson, the most powerful stand in the world?" or DIO kills him or subdues him with a flesh bud.

      Now, even if Diavolo just happened to be feeling frisky that day, and did chop off DIO's head, he's also got DIO's floating head to worry about (how did it do that?) as well as DIO's nasty vampire neck veins. You know, the Esidisi worm-lookin ones? Those might be trouble for King Crimson, whose range is only 2 meters, I think. If DIO tags him once, it might act like a flesh bud. Then DIO subdues him, gets back onto his body, and either makes him an agent of DIO or gives him the donut. I just think DIO's too supernatural, and The World too strong a stand, for Diavolo to land a decisive win. Even if Diavolo does manage to chop off DIO's head, DIO can maybe just Za Warudo and float on outta there. Besides, DIO (and vampires in general) have survived killer head blows, like the chop-in-two DIO recieved in Part 1, the Silver Chariot head pokes both Vanilla Ice and DIO recieved, and the head-cracker Star Platinum gave him. I think the only answer would be total head dissolution/splattering. Then again, how would Diavolo know that?

      P.S. I agree, Scenario A (in which Diavolo sees DIO instantly teleport) is more likely.

      The thing is that, like we see in part 3 a single donut blow from Jotaro to DIO leave he very wounded and he also needed blood to rapidly regenarate himself. You can't take in count part 1 Dio because Part 3 DIO have the issues with Jonathan's Body so he can use all his ability at all. So a mere donut from King Crimson would make him a easly target. 

      Without mention that the punch from Star Platinum in his head leave him almost incapacited, so if King Crimson manages to do a critical attack (Wich is what probably would happen in case A), even if DIO wouldn't be instantly dead, specialy because Diavolo always attack in the stomach or near. Without people or Joestar Blood in a fair scenario, Diavolo just need to preview DIO's next time stop so he just use King Crimson and position himself for another hit, this time in the head. Being fair i can see DIO somehow surviving but definitly not winning this encounter.

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    • scenario C is the more likely to happen, because of the confirmations from the manga saying that time stop is the superior power and the game showing time stop countering time skip, also diavolo is not "out of time" during time skip, this only happens once and completely contradicts everything he does in the manga, we saw aerosmith bullets passing throught him during erased time right? and he can't interact with anythinh during it right? well, no, he clearly used his time skip to clean his appartament, (https://youtu.be/8NvnSl2b4vg?t=157), him throwing blood to polnareff face inside erased time and the blood afecting polnareff (https://youtu.be/-lGixXcTLs0?t=144) and he did the same thing with giorno, and also dodged mista bullets, they didn't go throught him (https://youtu.be/fmcIDxf7fD4?t=58), also buccelati punch in his fight with diavolo still affected him to the point he have to dodge the punch inside the erased time, or he would have been decapitated by the zipper (image), the anime too show him dodging sticky fingers punch 
      Va color v10 039
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    • he can't attack anyone direct, because by doing so he would be interfiring with the fate he forecasted, and as himself said, he can't change epitaph predictions, he can't interfere with anyone direct, but he can do things to his advantage, like he says in the video "once time resumes, you will not be able to count those droplets of blood", the blood is not affecting polnareff unconsious acts directly, he will only suffer the effect of the blood in his eyes after time skip ends, also just like his stand stats says, only the living (a being with a destiny, fated to happen) will be affected by his time skip and act uncousciously, that's why he dodged mista bullets, and thats why he could clean his room, he doesn't remove himself from reality, he is just the only one who can freely move during that period, he is still there, he is even affected by sticky fingers punch inside the erased time, that aerosmith fight is just bullshit and considering it is almost the same to say that star platinum has infinite range because he was able to get all those things for jotaro inside the prison, even thought it's stated that his range is of only 2 meters, one thing contradicts the other

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    • Patfv wrote:
      he can't attack anyone direct, because by doing so he would be interfiring with the fate he forecasted, and as himself said, he can't change epitaph predictions, he can't interfere with anyone direct, but he can do things to his advantage, like he says in the video "once time resumes, you will not be able to count those droplets of blood", the blood is not affecting polnareff unconsious acts directly, he will only suffer the effect of the blood in his eyes after time skip ends, also just like his stand stats says, only the living (a being with a destiny, fated to happen) will be affected by his time skip and act uncousciously, that's why he dodged mista bullets, and thats why he could clean his room, he doesn't remove himself from reality, he is just the only one who can freely move during that period, he is still there, he is even affected by sticky fingers punch inside the erased time, that aerosmith fight is just bullshit and considering it is almost the same to say that star platinum has infinite range because he was able to get all those things for jotaro inside the prison, even thought it's stated that his range is of only 2 meters, one thing contradicts the other

      I can understand your persepective, though in all honesty, King Crimson's ability just works.

      I'm not saying that as a meme, it just works. King Crimson's ability is actually pretty straightforward, it's just that events in the anime/manga are completely different to what its ability is stated to be.

      Let's take the "Can King Crimson interact with erased time?" question that's been haunting everyone for years. From what I can tell, here's the proofs from what's been given to this question:


      1.) Yes

      -Trish's hand being cut off (So he can affect living beings)

      -Hotel room Cleaning

      -Cleaning the Fortune Teller's Body and severing his hand (Again, living beings) -Tying up his fake while he donuts Abbachio -Killing Narancia -Moving Mista (Trish) closer to Diavolo (Bruno)


      2.) No -He could've killed the Gang-Stars, but didn't.

      -Every time he attacked, he exited Time Skip beforehand.

      -He doesn't use King Crimson's ability to do a lot of things.

      Now, let's do another question: "Is King Crimson invincible in Skipped Time?"

      1.) Yes -

      Dodging Aerosmith's bullets

      2.) No -

      The things you listed down.

      In all honesty, I can imagine that Diavolo is actually invincible in Skipped Time, it's just that he's too arrogant/prideful to even look like he was touched by anything. Him dodging the atacks he's already invincible too would actually make sense for his character, although admittedly that's just a headcanon, so that doesn't really hold ground.

      My headcanon also doesn't really hold ground since for the first question, it could also be stated that Diavolo is just too arrogant to not let anyone not know who killed then, and it would also make sense for his character. He's a coward, but he's a coward who's going to let you know his name, since only dead men tell no tales.

      Stands tend to be pretty contradictory in Jojo, so really the most we can do is just use what base definition the anime/manga gives us, and I think it's just overall less confusing if we use the one we see in his fight against Bruno.

      If we were to base abilities off of events, then they'd have to pretty consistent; King Crimson is unfortunately not one of these examples.

      This is a topic that could be discussed another time though, since I honestly have no idea how King Crimson consistently works.

      Back to your argument about Scenario C, I can see it being one of the possible scenarios, but I still see A being the most possible.

      I don't think we should take the Manga's "Most Overpowered Ability" statement at full value, since

      A.) Araki literally has an "I forgot" meme, and

      B.) Gold Experience Requiem is clearly a superior ability, it's just that it's not mentioned because it has no relevance to Part 6. For all we know, it could be the same to King Crimson, it's just that it was never mentioned since it has no relevance to Part 6.

      Back to Scenario C though, I think Diavolo's ability needs to be made clear. I'm not referring to the things I stated earlier, I'm referring to Diavolo's true ability: Fate itself. I know it probably sounds really stupid, but hear me out.

      Diavolo, in his world of Skipped Time, is the only being that can 'defy' his fate, while everyone else is bound to their own. This fate is unavoidable, and everyone is forced to act these out except for Diavolo until he decides to stop his Time Skip or 10 seconds have passed.

      The thing about Fate in Jojo, is that it's inevitable. As we see in the Rolling Stones Arc, fate is predetermined, and cannot be changed no matter what. Nothing can change fate, and even King Crimson and Gold Experience Requiem's abilities are still according to Fate's hands. That's right: Time Skipping and Reality Warping, as absurd as it might seem, are still according to fate itself.

      Fate is seemingly unaffected by Time and Space itself, and yet Diavolo reigns (some) control over it. This is why I think DIO would be forced to act out his Time-Stopped Fate; you can pause time, but you can't pause fate.

      This is just what I believe would happen though, I could be entirely wrong and DIO's ability could pause Diavolo's, but I'm willing to debate and see what happens.

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    • Guys. This is starting to sound like a good ol' Western standoff.

      That is, whoever shoots first is probably the winner. Dio stops time before Diavolo? Dio wins. Diavolo skips before the time stop? Diavolo gets a free hit but then y'know... vampire. (and no, don't get confused with "but Dio hasn't adjusted to Jonathans' body yet!" because the only time Diavolo and Dio would ever meet would be AFTER Dio took blood from a Joestar. Dio never left his mansion in Egypt for the duration of Part 3 until the Joestars got there. Dio and Diavolo crossing paths is for all intents and purposes a mathematical impossibility until Dio starts being active in the world.)

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    • TheSepulchre wrote:
      Guys. This is starting to sound like a good ol' Western standoff.

      That is, whoever shoots first is probably the winner. Dio stops time before Diavolo? Dio wins. Diavolo skips before the time stop? Diavolo gets a free hit but then y'know... vampire. (and no, don't get confused with "but Dio hasn't adjusted to Jonathans' body yet!" because the only time Diavolo and Dio would ever meet would be AFTER Dio took blood from a Joestar. Dio never left his mansion in Egypt for the duration of Part 3 until the Joestars got there. Dio and Diavolo crossing paths is for all intents and purposes a mathematical impossibility until Dio starts being active in the world.)

      Maybe if he struck the heart and completly destroyed it DIO would die? If not we do know the regen isnt instant and DIO would then stop time defensively

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    • LordUrien935 wrote:
      Diavolo is an extremely cautious character. The moment he sees himself injured in any way, he'll activate time skip. It's just what he does. 

      DIO is a massive threat, but Jotaro isn't. Not only is Jotaro's time stop 5 seconds max, which is half of Diavolo's time skip length (giving Diavolo plenty of time to time skip before Jotaro activated time stop) he lacks DIO's regeneration abilities so one hit from KC will donut Jotaro. 

      The only way Diavolo would win is if he went for a killing blow to the brain. Even if it doesn't kill him, it would paralyze him. If they were fighting in an area with no possible escape and onlly Diavolo and DIO, then Diavolo can exploit this even if he goes for the chest first, because DIO needed blood to recover from injuries. But DIO after getting a Joestar's blood removes any chance of Diavolo winning. Unless, again, he manages to eradicate DIO's brain.

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    • Angeloder wrote:
      TheSepulchre wrote:
      Guys. This is starting to sound like a good ol' Western standoff.

      That is, whoever shoots first is probably the winner. Dio stops time before Diavolo? Dio wins. Diavolo skips before the time stop? Diavolo gets a free hit but then y'know... vampire. (and no, don't get confused with "but Dio hasn't adjusted to Jonathans' body yet!" because the only time Diavolo and Dio would ever meet would be AFTER Dio took blood from a Joestar. Dio never left his mansion in Egypt for the duration of Part 3 until the Joestars got there. Dio and Diavolo crossing paths is for all intents and purposes a mathematical impossibility until Dio starts being active in the world.)

      Maybe if he struck the heart and completly destroyed it DIO would die? If not we do know the regen isnt instant and DIO would then stop time defensively

      I'm pretty sure that wouldn't exactly work. Remember in Part 2, when Joseph absolutely loaded Straizo with 50 .45 ACP bullets from a Thompson submachine gun bearing a 10.5 inch barrel (barrel length increasing the speed of the bullets due to the rifling) then splattered him all over the walls with a grenade? Straizo ended up surviving that, and basically willed himself back together. While yes, he was weakened considerably, he still retained superb strength and agility, being able to cling to walls with one hand (his grip strength then was listed at 325kg/cm^3!) So, I don't think it would be too easy for Diavolo to put DIO in the grave.

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    • well all KC has to do is just destroy TW like how Star Platinum broke it in half which resulted in DIO dying. (which when u think about it TW is really "fragile" in terms of the amount of times it gets shattered by SP)

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    • Babythedude wrote:
      well all KC has to do is just destroy TW like how Star Platinum broke it in half which resulted in DIO dying. (which when u think about it TW is really "fragile" in terms of the amount of times it gets shattered by SP)

      Then again, now you have to take into account that King Crimson has a Durability stat of E, meaning it would probably get limbs shattered almost on impact if there was a sort of Stand Clash between KC and TW.

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    • thats true, the time when SP punched TW, Jotaro's hand kinda got damage even with a durability of A. (but like freaking TW is a little baby and shattered his hand. What im saying is: The World was so trash compared to Star Platinum)

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    • VinceC87 wrote:
      Babythedude wrote:
      well all KC has to do is just destroy TW like how Star Platinum broke it in half which resulted in DIO dying. (which when u think about it TW is really "fragile" in terms of the amount of times it gets shattered by SP)
      Then again, now you have to take into account that King Crimson has a Durability stat of E, meaning it would probably get limbs shattered almost on impact if there was a sort of Stand Clash between KC and TW.

      Durability reffers to how long the ability can be held

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    • Angeloder wrote:

      VinceC87 wrote:
      Babythedude wrote:
      well all KC has to do is just destroy TW like how Star Platinum broke it in half which resulted in DIO dying. (which when u think about it TW is really "fragile" in terms of the amount of times it gets shattered by SP)
      Then again, now you have to take into account that King Crimson has a Durability stat of E, meaning it would probably get limbs shattered almost on impact if there was a sort of Stand Clash between KC and TW.

      Durability reffers to how long the ability can be held

      That... doesn't really make sense at all. Like, Gold Experience can create creatures that last almost indefinitely but only has a durability of D. Or how King Crimson can use it's ability for up to 10 seconds but only has an E in durability, but Star Platinum can use it's ability for only 5 seconds but gets an A? I think durability is supposed to refer to how tough a Stand is but, like most Stand stats, it's bullshit.

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    • Kingasdfg wrote:

      Angeloder wrote:

      VinceC87 wrote:
      Babythedude wrote:
      well all KC has to do is just destroy TW like how Star Platinum broke it in half which resulted in DIO dying. (which when u think about it TW is really "fragile" in terms of the amount of times it gets shattered by SP)
      Then again, now you have to take into account that King Crimson has a Durability stat of E, meaning it would probably get limbs shattered almost on impact if there was a sort of Stand Clash between KC and TW.
      Durability reffers to how long the ability can be held

      That... doesn't really make sense at all. Like, Gold Experience can create creatures that last almost indefinitely but only has a durability of D. Or how King Crimson can use it's ability for up to 10 seconds but only has an E in durability, but Star Platinum can use it's ability for only 5 seconds but gets an A? I think durability is supposed to refer to how tough a Stand is but, like most Stand stats, it's bullshit.

      You definitely have a point about those Stand Stats.

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    • If the E was true, it still got hit with a barely noticeable injury from Sticky Fingers, who has an A. Though this A is likely because zippers and a barrage can break a person into chunks, it still was hit. It should be higher as it tanked a hit.

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    • Kingasdfg wrote:

      Angeloder wrote:

      VinceC87 wrote:
      Babythedude wrote:
      well all KC has to do is just destroy TW like how Star Platinum broke it in half which resulted in DIO dying. (which when u think about it TW is really "fragile" in terms of the amount of times it gets shattered by SP)
      Then again, now you have to take into account that King Crimson has a Durability stat of E, meaning it would probably get limbs shattered almost on impact if there was a sort of Stand Clash between KC and TW.
      Durability reffers to how long the ability can be held

      That... doesn't really make sense at all. Like, Gold Experience can create creatures that last almost indefinitely but only has a durability of D. Or how King Crimson can use it's ability for up to 10 seconds but oncly has an E in durability, but Star Platinum can use it's ability for only 5 seconds but gets an A? I think durability is supposed to refer to how tough a Stand is but, like most Stand stats, it's bullshit.

      Durability also reffers to how often the stand can use his ability

      so it means that King Crimson can erease time for 10 seconds but it has a long cooldown

      Id say that the longer he sustains his ability, the more time it takes to recharge

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    • Angeloder wrote:

      Kingasdfg wrote:

      Angeloder wrote:

      VinceC87 wrote:
      Babythedude wrote:
      well all KC has to do is just destroy TW like how Star Platinum broke it in half which resulted in DIO dying. (which when u think about it TW is really "fragile" in terms of the amount of times it gets shattered by SP)
      Then again, now you have to take into account that King Crimson has a Durability stat of E, meaning it would probably get limbs shattered almost on impact if there was a sort of Stand Clash between KC and TW.
      Durability reffers to how long the ability can be held

      That... doesn't really make sense at all. Like, Gold Experience can create creatures that last almost indefinitely but only has a durability of D. Or how King Crimson can use it's ability for up to 10 seconds but oncly has an E in durability, but Star Platinum can use it's ability for only 5 seconds but gets an A? I think durability is supposed to refer to how tough a Stand is but, like most Stand stats, it's bullshit.

      Durability also reffers to how often the stand can use his ability

      so it means that King Crimson can erease time for 10 seconds but it has a long cooldown

      Id say that the longer he sustains his ability, the more time it takes to recharge

      I don't really trust that. There's too much bullshit in Stand Stats to find them in any way reliable.

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    • Kingasdfg wrote:

      Angeloder wrote:

      Kingasdfg wrote:

      Angeloder wrote:


      VinceC87 wrote:
      Babythedude wrote:
      well all KC has to do is just destroy TW like how Star Platinum broke it in half which resulted in DIO dying. (which when u think about it TW is really "fragile" in terms of the amount of times it gets shattered by SP)
      Then again, now you have to take into account that King Crimson has a Durability stat of E, meaning it would probably get limbs shattered almost on impact if there was a sort of Stand Clash between KC and TW.
      Durability reffers to how long the ability can be held
      That... doesn't really make sense at all. Like, Gold Experience can create creatures that last almost indefinitely but only has a durability of D. Or how King Crimson can use it's ability for up to 10 seconds but oncly has an E in durability, but Star Platinum can use it's ability for only 5 seconds but gets an A? I think durability is supposed to refer to how tough a Stand is but, like most Stand stats, it's bullshit.
      Durability also reffers to how often the stand can use his ability

      so it means that King Crimson can erease time for 10 seconds but it has a long cooldown

      Id say that the longer he sustains his ability, the more time it takes to recharge

      I don't really trust that. There's too much bullshit in Stand Stats to find them in any way reliable.

      I think the durability refers to the actual strength of the composition of the Stand. The World had a B, and Star Platinum had an A, and so Star Platinum asspulled his win against The World by cracking him to pieces or whatever. If durability referred to the duration of the Stand ability, then how come The World's durability is less than Star Platinum, when Star Platinum in its prime can only hold a Time Stop for 5 seconds, while The World at time of death could hold for 9? As well as this, when King Crimson poked himself with the arrow after Gold Experience did, he literally started breaking into pieces, i.e. piss poor durability. 

      So, if The World's and King Crimson's fists ever were to meet, Diavolo would end up with some pretty f**ked up hands. And probably die.

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    • From what we could see, King Crimson doesn’t need to have a cooldown. Like The part where he was running towards the arrow in mistas body. He was able to erase time twice in a matter of a few seconds

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    • CrimsonDiavolo wrote:
      From what we could see, King Crimson doesn’t need to have a cooldown. Like The part where he was running towards the arrow in mistas body. He was able to erase time twice in a matter of a few seconds

      Can we really count that? I thought there were a few times where DIO stopped time repeatedly. But I think you are on to something. Not to mention "Jojo time" works differently than normal, whats to say Diavolo doesn't have a Time Limit for the ability. We simply don't know. All we know is that he appears to be using repeatedly When he was running as Mista. Could be an "Araki Forgot", LOL.

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    • VinceC87 wrote:
      Kingasdfg wrote:

      Angeloder wrote:


      Kingasdfg wrote:

      Angeloder wrote:


      VinceC87 wrote:
      Babythedude wrote:
      well all KC has to do is just destroy TW like how Star Platinum broke it in half which resulted in DIO dying. (which when u think about it TW is really "fragile" in terms of the amount of times it gets shattered by SP)
      Then again, now you have to take into account that King Crimson has a Durability stat of E, meaning it would probably get limbs shattered almost on impact if there was a sort of Stand Clash between KC and TW.
      Durability reffers to how long the ability can be held
      That... doesn't really make sense at all. Like, Gold Experience can create creatures that last almost indefinitely but only has a durability of D. Or how King Crimson can use it's ability for up to 10 seconds but oncly has an E in durability, but Star Platinum can use it's ability for only 5 seconds but gets an A? I think durability is supposed to refer to how tough a Stand is but, like most Stand stats, it's bullshit.
      Durability also reffers to how often the stand can use his ability

      so it means that King Crimson can erease time for 10 seconds but it has a long cooldown

      Id say that the longer he sustains his ability, the more time it takes to recharge

      I don't really trust that. There's too much bullshit in Stand Stats to find them in any way reliable.
      I think the durability refers to the actual strength of the composition of the Stand. The World had a B, and Star Platinum had an A, and so Star Platinum asspulled his win against The World by cracking him to pieces or whatever. If durability referred to the duration of the Stand ability, then how come The World's durability is less than Star Platinum, when Star Platinum in its prime can only hold a Time Stop for 5 seconds, while The World at time of death could hold for 9? As well as this, when King Crimson poked himself with the arrow after Gold Experience did, he literally started breaking into pieces, i.e. piss poor durability. 

      So, if The World's and King Crimson's fists ever were to meet, Diavolo would end up with some pretty f**ked up hands. And probably die.

      To be accurate the Arrow is made to break and pierce any stand, not just Diavolo's. It clearly made Giorno almost bleed out from just grabbing it (the Fight aginst Black Sabbath). Of course including the time where it broke through Silver Chariot as well and made it melt. It's clear it has that effect with whatever Stand it pierces. You really can't say it's because of King Crimson's Durability at all.

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    • Sticky Fingers Ari wrote:
      VinceC87 wrote:
      Kingasdfg wrote:

      Angeloder wrote:


      Kingasdfg wrote:

      Angeloder wrote:



      VinceC87 wrote:
      Babythedude wrote:
      well all KC has to do is just destroy TW like how Star Platinum broke it in half which resulted in DIO dying. (which when u think about it TW is really "fragile" in terms of the amount of times it gets shattered by SP)
      Then again, now you have to take into account that King Crimson has a Durability stat of E, meaning it would probably get limbs shattered almost on impact if there was a sort of Stand Clash between KC and TW.
      Durability reffers to how long the ability can be held
      That... doesn't really make sense at all. Like, Gold Experience can create creatures that last almost indefinitely but only has a durability of D. Or how King Crimson can use it's ability for up to 10 seconds but oncly has an E in durability, but Star Platinum can use it's ability for only 5 seconds but gets an A? I think durability is supposed to refer to how tough a Stand is but, like most Stand stats, it's bullshit.
      Durability also reffers to how often the stand can use his ability

      so it means that King Crimson can erease time for 10 seconds but it has a long cooldown

      Id say that the longer he sustains his ability, the more time it takes to recharge

      I don't really trust that. There's too much bullshit in Stand Stats to find them in any way reliable.
      I think the durability refers to the actual strength of the composition of the Stand. The World had a B, and Star Platinum had an A, and so Star Platinum asspulled his win against The World by cracking him to pieces or whatever. If durability referred to the duration of the Stand ability, then how come The World's durability is less than Star Platinum, when Star Platinum in its prime can only hold a Time Stop for 5 seconds, while The World at time of death could hold for 9? As well as this, when King Crimson poked himself with the arrow after Gold Experience did, he literally started breaking into pieces, i.e. piss poor durability. 

      So, if The World's and King Crimson's fists ever were to meet, Diavolo would end up with some pretty f**ked up hands. And probably die.

      To be accurate the Arrow is made to break and pierce any stand, not just Diavolo's. It clearly made Giorno almost bleed out from just grabbing it (the Fight aginst Black Sabbath). Of course including the time where it broke through Silver Chariot as well and made it melt. It's clear it has that effect with whatever Stand it pierces. You really can't say it's because of King Crimson's Durability at all.

      To be accurate, the Arrows were made along the same premise as the Stone Masks: to unlock the hidden inner potential of a person (or Pillar Man). They were made to pierce people. However, when a Stand is stabbed, its total potential is released in the form of an upgrade unrelated to the stand's original ability, which comes with a change in composition. That change in composition (as far as we know) usually involves the Stand melting and reforming, or shedding its "shell" or "skin" revealing the new stand underneath. It has that effect when it grants a Stand its Requiem powers. And we definitely didn't see a King Crimson Requiem, although a fight between two absolutely broken Stands would be super great, after it gets pierced and cracked by it. I think that's because the Arrow can either only grant one Requiem ability at a time, or produce one Requiem Stand at a time, i.e. there cannot be two existing Requiem Stands produced by the same Arrow at once. Point is, King Crimson has really bad durability, and that's why.

      P.S. Giorno barely cut his hand at all when grabbing the arrow from Black Sabbath. However, his Stand did steam and crack, in a similar fashion to the other Requiem Stands.

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    • Guys please read the wiki on stand parameters

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    • Angeloder wrote:
      Guys please read the wiki on stand parameters

      Can't find it.

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    • VinceC87 wrote:
      Angeloder wrote:
      Guys please read the wiki on stand parameters
      Can't find it.
      Truc
      At the bottom of the infobox, there's actually a folder you can click on to reveal the Stand parameters.
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    • Nabukun wrote:
      VinceC87 wrote:
      Angeloder wrote:
      Guys please read the wiki on stand parameters
      Can't find it.
      Truc
      At the bottom of the infobox, there's actually a folder you can click on to reveal the Stand parameters.

      Oh. That's what you were talking about. I thought you were talking about a page defining Stand stats and such, not the actual Stand stats. Sorry.

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    • VinceC87 wrote:
      Sticky Fingers Ari wrote:
      VinceC87 wrote:
      Kingasdfg wrote:

      Angeloder wrote:



      Kingasdfg wrote:

      Angeloder wrote:



      VinceC87 wrote:
      Babythedude wrote:
      well all KC has to do is just destroy TW like how Star Platinum broke it in half which resulted in DIO dying. (which when u think about it TW is really "fragile" in terms of the amount of times it gets shattered by SP)
      Then again, now you have to take into account that King Crimson has a Durability stat of E, meaning it would probably get limbs shattered almost on impact if there was a sort of Stand Clash between KC and TW.
      Durability reffers to how long the ability can be held
      That... doesn't really make sense at all. Like, Gold Experience can create creatures that last almost indefinitely but only has a durability of D. Or how King Crimson can use it's ability for up to 10 seconds but oncly has an E in durability, but Star Platinum can use it's ability for only 5 seconds but gets an A? I think durability is supposed to refer to how tough a Stand is but, like most Stand stats, it's bullshit.
      Durability also reffers to how often the stand can use his ability

      so it means that King Crimson can erease time for 10 seconds but it has a long cooldown

      Id say that the longer he sustains his ability, the more time it takes to recharge

      I don't really trust that. There's too much bullshit in Stand Stats to find them in any way reliable.
      I think the durability refers to the actual strength of the composition of the Stand. The World had a B, and Star Platinum had an A, and so Star Platinum asspulled his win against The World by cracking him to pieces or whatever. If durability referred to the duration of the Stand ability, then how come The World's durability is less than Star Platinum, when Star Platinum in its prime can only hold a Time Stop for 5 seconds, while The World at time of death could hold for 9? As well as this, when King Crimson poked himself with the arrow after Gold Experience did, he literally started breaking into pieces, i.e. piss poor durability. 

      So, if The World's and King Crimson's fists ever were to meet, Diavolo would end up with some pretty f**ked up hands. And probably die.

      To be accurate the Arrow is made to break and pierce any stand, not just Diavolo's. It clearly made Giorno almost bleed out from just grabbing it (the Fight aginst Black Sabbath). Of course including the time where it broke through Silver Chariot as well and made it melt. It's clear it has that effect with whatever Stand it pierces. You really can't say it's because of King Crimson's Durability at all.
      To be accurate, the Arrows were made along the same premise as the Stone Masks: to unlock the hidden inner potential of a person (or Pillar Man). They were made to pierce people. However, when a Stand is stabbed, its total potential is released in the form of an upgrade unrelated to the stand's original ability, which comes with a change in composition. That change in composition (as far as we know) usually involves the Stand melting and reforming, or shedding its "shell" or "skin" revealing the new stand underneath. It has that effect when it grants a Stand its Requiem powers. And we definitely didn't see a King Crimson Requiem, although a fight between two absolutely broken Stands would be super great, after it gets pierced and cracked by it. I think that's because the Arrow can either only grant one Requiem ability at a time, or produce one Requiem Stand at a time, i.e. there cannot be two existing Requiem Stands produced by the same Arrow at once. Point is, King Crimson has really bad durability, and that's why.

      P.S. Giorno barely cut his hand at all when grabbing the arrow from Black Sabbath. However, his Stand did steam and crack, in a similar fashion to the other Requiem Stands.

      It's clear the arrow can cleave through stands as well as people

      See Yoshikage Kira or Giorno for example. Also the anime episode where Giorno cut his hand had way more blood than the manga (I don't know which one you saw when making the post). Yes, it does change composition, but it still damages the user indicating its power to Cut through Stands. Remember Chariot Requiem's Transformation? (admittedly polnareff was already injured during the Requiem process thanks to Diavolo). Even Giorno was physically damaged when he received Gold Experience Requiem. It's clear that the composition change the Stand undertakes does, in fact, damage the user (although afterward they usually heal) in a similar fashion with regular stands. Koichi was shot with the arrow and was injured, Roshambo Kid is an example of when the arrow doesn't heal the wound it causes.

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    • Yes. If you erase the moment Dio commands The World to stop time, time is never stopped. You would therefore immediately jump to the point in time where Dio has resumed time's flow, The World is in its cooldown, and Dio has moved where he planned to. Would that help Diavolo beat Dio? Only if he knew he could smash his brain to kill him.

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    • A FANDOM user
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