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    • if it goes off before the time stop, then yes

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    • Yes. Can't stop time if there's no time to stop thanks to it being skipped. 

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    • No, stopped time means that there is no time to skip because it isn't progressing.

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    • It is impossible to negate stopped time for 3 reasons:

      1. Only Dio would be able to move

      2. There would be no time to skip

      3. There is no known Stand that can completely negate time, only: Stop, Skip, Loop, and Accelerate.

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    • This is why the only wasy to defeat DIO using King Crimson would be to attack him before he stops time (which without him saying so in the first place, would be impossible).

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    • Diavolo would be able to since:

      1st he cant be affected in stopped time.

      2nd the opponent wont know why they ar ein their new position.

      3rd stopping time still means that actions from that second are there but just un noticed essentially still being part of the 10 seconds thus making them become skipped.

      This is however my opinion on the matter.

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    • why are people forgetting about mandom

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    • no, he can't erase the stopped time, why people just ignore this scene is beyond me
      Va color v10 039
      , diavolo is punched, aa zipper forms in his head, he activates time skip, the punchs still affects him, the zipper gets bigger and bigger, until he DODGES the punch, even the anime showed him dogdim sticky fingers punchs, two times, he doesn't go to another reality like the wiki says
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    • also,  from that scene alone, we can see that 1) he can suffer damage inside the time skip 2) stand ability works normally inside the time skip and they can affect diavolo, with this in mind, in part 6 the time stop is discribed to be the "most invincible and strongest stand abillity that has ever existed", not only one, but twice, in those two pages
      So color v03 013
      So color v02 065
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    • Diavolo is able to see 10 seconds into the future, right? With this knowledge, he should be able to predict when Dio actives time stop regardless of how long he takes during it, and then erase the time in which the time stop would happen. Or so I believe.

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    • SexHaver4200 wrote:
      Diavolo is able to see 10 seconds into the future, right? With this knowledge, he should be able to predict when Dio actives time stop regardless of how long he takes during it, and then erase the time in which the time stop would happen. Or so I believe.

      No, remember that while seeing 10 seconds into the future there are no seconds. This is because DIO would have stopped time already. The vision would be himself dead instantly, just like any normal person would see of The World (minus Jotaro of course!).

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    • I’m pretty sure Diavolo would come out on top. He can see 10 seconds into the future. Say DIO is going to use Za Warudo. Diavolo is looking into the future, and notices that DIO does a bunch of stuff instantaneously. Diavolo can’t see the stopped time, but he could probably figure out that something was up, and erase DIO’s time stop before it happened. Because DIO stops time outside of Za Warudo, he would be affected by King Crimson before he could do anything. In the erased space, DIO would use Za Warudo, but it wouldn’t count. Therefore, DIO’s entire time spent Warudo-ing would be negated. It doesn’t matter what DIO does during the time stop, as King Crimson has already erased that time, so nothing happening during in that period has any effect. Now, DIO’s special power has been negated, but his stand still has great stats. DIO and Diavolo would still have to duke it out the old fashioned way. While DIO has a fatal weakness to sunlight, I doubt Diavolo would be caught dead in broad daylight, haha. So I think Diavolo would best him in the time stand-off(haha), but whatever happens after that is up in the air.

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    • But as it was stated earlier, even if Diavolo skips the time frame, DIO's time stop would still be in effect, because it doesn't negate stand abilities, as shown with Bruno's Zipper still increase in size on King Crimson even while he was skipping time.

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    • That’s a good point. KC didn’t seem to affect Sticky Fingers there, for sure. I feel like this may be attributed to Araki’s inconsistency though. KC normally just gets rid of everything that happens during that time. Maybe it depends on the stand being used? Like whether it’s active or passive, for example.

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    • Perhaps, it would be a pretty interesting fight for sure though. Mainly because if DIO got any hits in on Diavolo before he skips or by working around KC he would be demolished due to his low durability, but that's assuming if DIO will get any hits in at all.

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    • Agreed. Both their stands can punch through people, but The World could probably just Punch through King Crimson as well. When such a fight would occur, I feel, would provide the tipping point in one or the other’s favor, as DIO becomes more powerful the more he is adjusted to Johnathan’s body. Thinking about it though, Jotaro activates his own time stop during DIO’s time stop (I think it was something like ‘at DIO’s seventh second Jotaro activates his four seconds of time, sharing DIO’s eight and ninth stopped seconds, then Jotaro uses his own last two seconds on his own’). So perhaps if DIO activates his stopped time during KC’s time erasure period, DIO’s actions during the time erasure would be negated, but time could still be stopped once the time erasure period was over.

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    • People keep saying that Diavolo would still suffer the damage in the Time Erase. Don’t forget that Aerosmith’s bullets went through him in erased time

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    • During time skip, Diavolo is immune to any and all damage, the only exception being self-inflicted damage like slitting his wrists. Of course, he can't attack anyone during time erase, however he can still affect objects not fated to be affected after the skip and he can blind his opponents with his own blood. 

      As long as Diavolo can predict DIO's time stop, yes, time skip can completely counter DIO. The reason DIO would beat Diavolo is because of his regeneration and abilities as a vampire combined with one of the strongest and fastest Stands in the entire series. Thanks to that, Diavolo will eventually lose. He needs to perfectly read and counter all of DIO's time stop multiple times to get past DIO's regeneration while DIO only needs one time stop and one hit to kill Diavolo. In terms of abilities, King Crimson >>>> The World/Star Platinum and but thanks to DIO's physiology he can beat Diavolo more often than Diavolo can beat DIO. 

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    • Patfv wrote:
      also,  from that scene alone, we can see that 1) he can suffer damage inside the time skip 2) stand ability works normally inside the time skip and they can affect diavolo, with this in mind, in part 6 the time stop is discribed to be the "most invincible and strongest stand abillity that has ever existed", not only one, but twice, in those two pages
      So color v03 013
      So color v02 065

      No? Bucciarati clearly hit King Crimson before he activated time skip. It's a simple fact that Diavolo is completely invincible while in erased time. Also, time stop is definitely not the most invincible ability to exist, since you know, Gold Experience Requiem is a thing. 

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    • No, if DIO was to stop time then King Crimsion could not do it because time when DIO stopped it STOPPED. KING CRIMSION CAN NOT ERASE A PART OF TIME THAT WAS STOPPED DUE TO HIM BEING UNAWARE OF IT HAPPENING. He could predict that he would be punched throught the heart, like DIO did to Kakyoin, but he would not be able to figure out when and where it was going to happen. DIO and Jotaro are massive threats to King Crimsion

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    • Diavolo is an extremely cautious character. The moment he sees himself injured in any way, he'll activate time skip. It's just what he does. 

      DIO is a massive threat, but Jotaro isn't. Not only is Jotaro's time stop 5 seconds max, which is half of Diavolo's time skip length (giving Diavolo plenty of time to time skip before Jotaro activated time stop) he lacks DIO's regeneration abilities so one hit from KC will donut Jotaro. 

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    • If Diavolo activates his ability before Jotaro stops time, he won’t be damaged in this. Timestop doesn’t exist on an actual second so the the Time Erase would still last 10 seconds even after the time stop finishes. Diavolo can fully avoid Time stop with time erase.

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    • I find something:

      ,,people think that Dio's "10 seconds" time-stop would greatly interfere with King Crimson's Time Erasure. However, this is far from the case, since that's not how the two abilities would interact.Since both abilities both "last" technically 10 seconds, people think that Diavolo would just shorten Dio's time-stop or just immediately end it.In reality, Dio's time-stop lasts 10 seconds... Within 0 time. A time-stop doesn't actually "last" since it's outright stopping the universal flow of time. Assuming we have a timeline that goes from point 1 to point 10, and Dio time-stops exactly at point 1, his time-stop would start and still end at point 1. Those "10 seconds" of time-stop are only an idea of a time frame within stopped time to somewhat quantify the number of actions Dio can do in his stopped Time.Diavolo, on the other hand, can actually erase literal 10 seconds with King Crimson's ability. In other words, in using the timeline that I previously mentioned, Instead of time proceeding to get from point 1, to point 2, to point 3, etcetera, time would go directly from point 1 to point 10, while Diavolo ill still be able to view all the actions between those two points of erased time.Summing up, Diavolo will completely skip Dio's entire time-stop (or even multiple time-stops), alongside all of his actions in the regular 10 seconds of time. King Crimson's ability will heavily mess with Dio's powers and cognition, while the World's will only confuse Diavolo a little, but still leaving him with a far greater control of the situation. Time-Stop might as well be useless in this scenario.Could Diavolo get past Dio's regeneration and superior stamina? I'd say yes: he can use Epitaph as a precognitive ability (which will additionally give him another advantage over Dio in temporal shenanigans) to give himself an immediate advantage, and after noticing regen, he's time-skip another time while Dio is still wondering what the hell happened, and reduce the latter's head to a bloody pulp until he cannot regenerate any more.

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    • Diavolo can't attack during time skip

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    • Seventy96 wrote: I find something:

      ,,people think that Dio's "10 seconds" time-stop would greatly interfere with King Crimson's Time Erasure. However, this is far from the case, since that's not how the two abilities would interact.Since both abilities both "last" technically 10 seconds, people think that Diavolo would just shorten Dio's time-stop or just immediately end it.In reality, Dio's time-stop lasts 10 seconds... Within 0 time. A time-stop doesn't actually "last" since it's outright stopping the universal flow of time. Assuming we have a timeline that goes from point 1 to point 10, and Dio time-stops exactly at point 1, his time-stop would start and still end at point 1. Those "10 seconds" of time-stop are only an idea of a time frame within stopped time to somewhat quantify the number of actions Dio can do in his stopped Time.Diavolo, on the other hand, can actually erase literal 10 seconds with King Crimson's ability. In other words, in using the timeline that I previously mentioned, Instead of time proceeding to get from point 1, to point 2, to point 3, etcetera, time would go directly from point 1 to point 10, while Diavolo ill still be able to view all the actions between those two points of erased time.Summing up, Diavolo will completely skip Dio's entire time-stop (or even multiple time-stops), alongside all of his actions in the regular 10 seconds of time. King Crimson's ability will heavily mess with Dio's powers and cognition, while the World's will only confuse Diavolo a little, but still leaving him with a far greater control of the situation. Time-Stop might as well be useless in this scenario.Could Diavolo get past Dio's regeneration and superior stamina? I'd say yes: he can use Epitaph as a precognitive ability (which will additionally give him another advantage over Dio in temporal shenanigans) to give himself an immediate advantage, and after noticing regen, he's time-skip another time while Dio is still wondering what the hell happened, and reduce the latter's head to a bloody pulp until he cannot regenerate any more.

      I agree 100% with this. Diavolo is the true lord

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    • But it closed like month ago! I can’t believe nobody invited us 😔. ;P

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    • CrimsonDiavolo wrote:

      Seventy96 wrote: I find something:

      ,,people think that Dio's "10 seconds" time-stop would greatly interfere with King Crimson's Time Erasure. However, this is far from the case, since that's not how the two abilities would interact.Since both abilities both "last" technically 10 seconds, people think that Diavolo would just shorten Dio's time-stop or just immediately end it.In reality, Dio's time-stop lasts 10 seconds... Within 0 time. A time-stop doesn't actually "last" since it's outright stopping the universal flow of time. Assuming we have a timeline that goes from point 1 to point 10, and Dio time-stops exactly at point 1, his time-stop would start and still end at point 1. Those "10 seconds" of time-stop are only an idea of a time frame within stopped time to somewhat quantify the number of actions Dio can do in his stopped Time.Diavolo, on the other hand, can actually erase literal 10 seconds with King Crimson's ability. In other words, in using the timeline that I previously mentioned, Instead of time proceeding to get from point 1, to point 2, to point 3, etcetera, time would go directly from point 1 to point 10, while Diavolo ill still be able to view all the actions between those two points of erased time.Summing up, Diavolo will completely skip Dio's entire time-stop (or even multiple time-stops), alongside all of his actions in the regular 10 seconds of time. King Crimson's ability will heavily mess with Dio's powers and cognition, while the World's will only confuse Diavolo a little, but still leaving him with a far greater control of the situation. Time-Stop might as well be useless in this scenario.Could Diavolo get past Dio's regeneration and superior stamina? I'd say yes: he can use Epitaph as a precognitive ability (which will additionally give him another advantage over Dio in temporal shenanigans) to give himself an immediate advantage, and after noticing regen, he's time-skip another time while Dio is still wondering what the hell happened, and reduce the latter's head to a bloody pulp until he cannot regenerate any more.

      I agree 100% with this. Diavolo is the true lord

      Wow I've no words for this...

      You've completely solved the debate, and it makes sense!

      This must be the work of an enemy stand!

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    • Except he didn't, a couple of debaters and I concluded that DIO would eventually be able to time stop due to his regen keeping from being killed. DIO would regen from getting donutted by KC, Diavolo would freak out and skip time again, set himself up for a head shot, resume time and DIO's enhanced senses would allow him to counter attack or he would survive the head damage as he has before like with Polnareff's sneak attack or Jotaro's head crushing SP punch and get a chance to attack eventually.

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    • Pretty sure time erase cancels time stop so yeah.

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    • It does as long as Diavolo predicts him stopping time and erases time at the right moment

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    • Dios time stop last longer than Diovolo's Time Skip. so even if he skipped it there would be 4 seconds where he was powerless. Yall don't know Jojo's like I do.

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    • I don’t think that matters though. DIO’s timestop doesn’t happen in ten seconds, it happens instantaneously. He ‘pauses’ the flow of time, and is able to take ten seconds worth of action. It WAS ten seconds, right? I thought that was both of their maximums(as of DIO’s death) but I could be wrong.

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    • Exactly ^

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    • “Y’all don’t know Jojo’s like I do”. Pffft.

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    • Engardian wrote:
      I don’t think that matters though. DIO’s timestop doesn’t happen in ten seconds, it happens instantaneously. He ‘pauses’ the flow of time, and is able to take ten seconds worth of action. It WAS ten seconds, right? I thought that was both of their maximums(as of DIO’s death) but I could be wrong.

      Thats what I meant. It is instantanious but it last 9 seconds. So King Crimson would shorten his time stop. But the only way he could skip some of it is if DIO, being the arrogant bastard he is, said, "NOW, THE WORLD, STOP TIME!" Which would give King Crimsion a clue to what he was doing and Skip it. But he wouldnt know.



      Also here is a video that shows how THE WORLD would work in real time: This video is made by morganstedmanms. Go check out his channel and like him. Here is the video link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VAnE83ViYA

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    • Joseph.0.Joestar wrote:

      Engardian wrote:
      I don’t think that matters though. DIO’s timestop doesn’t happen in ten seconds, it happens instantaneously. He ‘pauses’ the flow of time, and is able to take ten seconds worth of action. It WAS ten seconds, right? I thought that was both of their maximums(as of DIO’s death) but I could be wrong.

      Thats what I meant. It is instantanious but it last 9 seconds. So King Crimson would shorten his time stop. But the only way he could skip some of it is if DIO, being the arrogant bastard he is, said, "NOW, THE WORLD, STOP TIME!" Which would give King Crimsion a clue to what he was doing and Skip it. But he wouldnt know.



      Also here is a video that shows how THE WORLD would work in real time: This video is made by morganstedmanms. Go check out his channel and like him. Here is the video link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VAnE83ViYA

      Let’s say Diavolo sees himself with a hole in his chest but doesn’t see DIO anywhere. Epitaph shows Diavolo the RESULT of 10 seconds so the timestop had to have happened some time in between the start of the ten seconds and the end. Diavolo, being as cautious as he is, erases time. Maybe at like the 5 second mark DIO stops time. Diavolo isn’t affected because of time erase and soon the time erase will end. DIO will have no knowledge of what happened in that time and he won’t know if he stopped Time so he’d be Confused. Then Diavolo delivers the final blow. Also DIO would have shouted THE WORLD because he’s stupid. To anyone but DIO, timestop happens in an instant. Since he literally stops time, it’s just like pausing a movie and then resuming it. Diavolo doesn’t shorten the timestop if he erases time. He just completely nullifies it. It’s not that hard to understand timestop..

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    • You are right, its not that hard, I mean, It is litteraly in the name, TIMESTOP. Now lets change it. TIME STOP, now rearrange, STOP TIME. its not that hard.

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    • Okay smartass

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    • CrimsonDiavolo wrote:
      Okay smartass

      Hehe, I mean, I am Joseph Joestar, It's Kinda my job.

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    • Grrr

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    • Joseph is the most over powered character in JoJo

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    • Damn straight

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    • LordUrien935 wrote:
      Patfv wrote:
      also,  from that scene alone, we can see that 1) he can suffer damage inside the time skip 2) stand ability works normally inside the time skip and they can affect diavolo, with this in mind, in part 6 the time stop is discribed to be the "most invincible and strongest stand abillity that has ever existed", not only one, but twice, in those two pages
      So color v03 013
      So color v02 065
      No? Bucciarati clearly hit King Crimson before he activated time skip. It's a simple fact that Diavolo is completely invincible while in erased time. Also, time stop is definitely not the most invincible ability to exist, since you know, Gold Experience Requiem is a thing. 
      oh it's a simple fact? what is this then?
      Va color v10 039
      your clearly see him getting hit, the zipper forming in his head, and then he activates the time skip, the punch still affects him, the zipper gets bigger and then he DODGE the punch
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    • even the anime showed him dodging sticky fingers punchs, twice, in the first part of the fight (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gM5zAQFl5k4&t=48s), you can clearly see him seeing the forecast(the red effect) of sticky fingers coming to punch him, then he DODGES it, then you see the real sticky fingers punching nothing, the second part of the fight (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6y-QCEWQrvY), buccelati punchs him, he activates the time skip, the FORECAST of the punch advances, he step back, DODGING the punch, then you see sticky fingers real arm advancing
      Socao
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    • also, the scene of him "erasing 0.5 seconds of time" is just complet bullshit, because it's contradicts the things he does before and after that fight, bullets pass right through him yeah? so what is this?
      Bullshit
       why is he dodging mista bullets? he says that he erased just 0.5 seconds of time for the moment of the bullets hiting him be erased and ended his ability right ater that for the bullets be able to hit risoto right? so why the fuck this happens? 
      Va color v15 081
      twice, the moment of the bullets hiting him is erased so it never happened right? but why the moment of the blood hitting polnaref(or giorno later) isn't? he clearly says in his fight against risoto that "only the results stay in this world, only the result of you being shot", does blood doesn't count on that? why did he dodged mista bullets? only aerosmith bullets are erased? if that moment is erased and he true disapears from reality, how he cleaned his room inside the time skip? this fucking thing just happens once, and it contradicts everything in the manga, from his fight againt buccelati to his very last appearance
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    • now regarding time stop vs time erase, time stop IS the superior ability, part 6 states twice that it's the "most INVINCIBLE and most STRONGEST stand ability that has ever existed", requiem is a upgrade, and it's not permanent, made in heaven is stronger, but right after made in heaven appears star platinum gets another stats page, this time without the information of it being the strongest, you see? no incoherencs, also you have interviews with araki where again he states time stop is the strongest, and for another offcial source you have eyes of heaven, where time stop counters time erase, he can't erase time stop, time stop is the superior ability, the moment dio/jotaro activates it, time will be stopped, it gets the advantage, it will not be erased anymore, even diavolo states that "time shall be erased for everyone but myself" 
      Va color v17 040

      him activating time skip before dodging mista bullets and throwing blood in giorno eyes

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    • He can still easily avoid time stop. If he activates time erase, the time stop will still happen but won’t affect him. He dodged Aerosmith’s bullets so he is completely invincible in time erase.

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    • “Diavolo temporarily removes himself from reality, resulting in attempts to 'interact' with him to be rendered futile.” this is a quote from the fandom itself...it states specifically that all actions are rendered useless against him. Jesus...

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    • Just because it says that the Time Stop is the ‘strongest ability’ doesn’t make it true, especially considering that statement itself is an opinion. Kira says that ‘Sheer Heart Attack has no weakness’ but that doesn’t make it true. And how things work in Eyes of Heaven doesn’t reflect exactly how stands actually work in the manga; they had to make the abilities playable as a video game.

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    • Yeah, I agree with that too

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    • it's not an opinion, it's stated in star platinum stats page and in the page describing the stands power, the images are above, it's araki himself saying this, it's not some random character, and i think i pretty much showed how this "remove himself from reality" makes no sense, showing pages from the manga before and after that scene that completely negates it, using just ONE panel of something that just happens ONCE, and contradicts EVERYTHING stablished from his powers  is what doesn't make sense

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    • So why can’t Araki just explain how and why the ability does this? It makes no sense to this day and Araki hasn’t told us. I know he doesn’t have to but it would be nice if he did

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    • that's why i like to use the games as a source of information, because it's the closest thing we will have for comparison and araki supervisionised the games, eyes of heaven in my opinion have the best interpretation of king crimson abilitys, and in that game time stop counter time erasure, also in all star battle if you play as polnareff against diavolo, he will say that diavolo powers are ALMOST up there with dio's, this summed with the information in part 6, and his interviews(it's on youtube and on this wiki) as well, we can assume time stop is indeed the strongest one, now regarding his powers, king crimson is pretty consistent in part 5, the only two things that causes this confusion is that fight against risoto and buccelati punching himself, (witch again just happend once), you can see in my comments that king crimson behaves in one way the entire manga, and in another during his fight with risoto, it's just like star platinum having a range of 2 meters and still be able to take all that shit for jotaro in the prison, or valentine having the ability to make parallel universes coexist and later be revealed that he need to be in between 2 things to travel between universes, or white snake acid/ilusion power that is used just once and nevermore

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    • Well, then the games prove the point of Diavolo being immune in time erase. An example is Diavolos O skill in EoH. He can activate time erasure while being attacked to avoid the attacks and then come out and attack.

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    • But I think it’s stupid that time stop makes Diavolo exit erased time if used before it. He should still be in erased time even during time stop.

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    • But I agree 100% about Him only being able to evade attacks in erased time without moving in the risotto fight happened once. Maybe that was just to keep the plot going? Who knows

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    • I admit I was in the wrong about how it’s said the Time Stop is the strongest ability. But I’d still say that it’s just an opinion. Araki created the universe, but I don’t think it’s right to just take the manga/himself saying ‘This is the strongest power’, at least without reasoning behind it, when what’s actually presented in the manga could at least dispute that. Strange example, but it’d kind of be like J.K. Rowling saying ‘Voldemort was the strongest wizard’, even though within the context of the books, it’s highly debatable(again, not the best example, as it’s a bit more clear-cut, but Harry Potter is a pretty well known and it’s the first thing that popped into my head).

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    • Well at least you stated your opinion without getting snappy like some people.

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    • So many posts, so many things to answer to.

      Well, in any case, despite KC's limitations and inconsistencies, I think it can cancel timestop. It's a repeat, but SP cannot stop time that has been erased. And KC is guaranteed to erase time because Diavolo can see the attack coming.

      Sticky Fingers? KC erases time, not zippers.

      Moreover, I'm calling into question the in-between commentaries Patfv is using. My official translations of the manga only say that SP is the strongest Stand by virtue of having timestop AND strength and precision. It doesn't say that timestop is the strongest stand power anywhere. I'll trust official translations over fan translations. Timestop isn't confirmed to ever trump time erasure.

      And don't trust video games. Nuff said.

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    • Nabukun wrote:
      So many posts, so many things to answer to.

      Well, in any case, despite KC's limitations and inconsistencies, I think it can cancel timestop. It's a repeat, but SP cannot stop time that has been erased. And KC is guaranteed to erase time because Diavolo can see the attack coming.

      Sticky Fingers? KC erases time, not zippers.

      Moreover, I'm calling into question the in-between commentaries Patfv is using. My official translations of the manga only say that SP is the strongest Stand by virtue of having timestop AND strength and precision. It doesn't say that timestop is the strongest stand power anywhere. I'll trust official translations over fan translations. Timestop isn't confirmed to ever trump time erasure.

      And don't trust video games. Nuff said.

      do you have part 6 official english translations? can you post the pictures for us to see? it's stated twice, also, here is the author himself saying it again (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTh1woTmDqs&t=379s 5:20),he jokes around but says that star platinum is invincible, only jotaro can beaat jotaro, and you need to control time and make time flow again because he can halt the flow of time, king crimson does not do that, and as i said, eyes of heaven have the best interpration of king crimson powers, in all star battle polnareff says that diavolo power is ALMOST there with the world, what is the correct translation for this then?
      So color v02 065
      for all the information regarding the two abilities, i think we can really assume time stop have the advantage here, also if jotaro/dio activates time stop, time will be stopped, it will not be erased, he can't erase a time that doesn't flow, if i can't use what is written in the manga, or araki declarations, or what is show in other jojo medias, what are we going to use in this discussion? just headcanons?
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    • and this discussion will go on and on, forever, i will do the same as you said, i will trust the manga and what we have in the interviews and in the official medias, that time stop is the strongest and most invincible stand ability that has ever existed, until araki himself comes and says the contrary of what he said in the manga, that time erase now is the strongest stand ability, i will keep trusting the information i have, i'm going to leave now as this discussion will go on and on, but there's one thing i would like to know, is this the "official" translation? 
      Eros
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    • @Patfv 

      Gold Experience Requiem? D4C:Love Train?

      Authors often are not aware, how strong or weak are characters that they created.

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      Why do I even bother that much?... Here I got you covered. I got the volumes, officially translated in French, the commentaries in french too. Use google translate or something. Check for yourself, never does it say that timestop is the strongest ability.

      SP is certainly the overall strongest Stand ever, but that doesn't mean that KC can't cancel timestop. There is NO direct discussion about it so what we have are what we know about their powers. With what I got, KC is a counter to SP, it's less practical and less physically powerful, but KC counters SP's timestop.

      Besides, you can pull any Jotaro or Dio wank you know of, but in the story, even Stand users without time affecting abilities can defeat Jotaro. So even if Araki says it, he's wrong about his story. Of course, it also counts for video games, whose original dialogs are more fanservice than facts.

      That's it, I'm done too. Out

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    • He may not be able to erase time that has stopped but Jotaro can’t attack someone that isn’t really there. Diavolo enters his own “dimension” in time erasure. He can’t be harmed in Time Erase. When the timestop ends, the time erasure will still be active, allowing him to move still without Jotaro even knowing that he stopped Time.

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    • Also I agree with Nabu

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    • @Nabukun Whoa, what's up with the stats in the french version of SO Volume 17? I thought it was meant to be AACEAC, not AACDEA. E in precision doesn't make any sense, and it looks like his development potential somehow went back up to A.

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    • duh

      stopping time is stopping time

      not dodging hits

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    • LordUrien935 wrote:
      Diavolo is an extremely cautious character. The moment he sees himself injured in any way, he'll activate time skip. It's just what he does. 

      DIO is a massive threat, but Jotaro isn't. Not only is Jotaro's time stop 5 seconds max, which is half of Diavolo's time skip length (giving Diavolo plenty of time to time skip before Jotaro activated time stop) he lacks DIO's regeneration abilities so one hit from KC will donut Jotaro. 

      stpped time can't be skipped, also star platinum can donut the world

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    • If Diavolo saw himself getting hit by nothing (time stop) he would naturally enter his time erasure. If he does it before jotaro stops time, Diavolo won’t be affected by the timestop and to Jotaro, it would appear as if his timestop was skipped or never happened

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    • I think the whole thing about which ability topples another depends on Diavolo's perspective. If Jotaro were to use Time Stop to move from one place to another within the erased period, would Diavolo see him suddenly change position within that period?

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    • Za Waurdodo vs a regular human 

      King creamSon  vs a regular human

      you can easily tell which ability is stronger

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    • I always interpreted it as Diavolo existing "outside of time" when his ability activates. His own dimension of sorts outside of time and to an extent "casuality" or cause, leaving only "effect". But this is only when the ability is activated, and it has to be activated consciously. So it comes down to who activates their ability first as he wouldn't exist outside of time when it isnt active.

      That being said, under those conditions, King Crimson beats out The World more often than not, and beats Star Platinum The World 100% of the time....due to Epitaph being able to see 10 seconds into the future. Due to that and Diavolo's cautions nature, he would activate his ability before Time Stop activates, and either he's completely unaffected due to being outside of time, or the 'time' that was stopped gets skipped over completely anyways. Or both. And even if it somehow doesn't, Diavolo is invincible while his ability is active.



      Now, going by this he beats Jotaro 99% of the time. As for DIO, it depends on how long his time stop is at the beginning of the fight. If it's like how it was at the beginning of the fight with Jotaro, then Diavolo would have a chance to win provided he destroys DIO's head. Going for the head isnt his first option but if he sees DIO survive and regen, I dont think it'll be hard for him to try. Plus, DIO due to having weaker vampire powers than Dio Brando, wouldn't be able to regenerate his limbs as easily if they're cut off, which is something he does in character.



      But if DIO starts with his Joestar blood at the greatest high, and has 9 seconds of timestop, either KC will erase all but 1 second of time stop and DIO would keep evolving passed the 10 second mark overcoming KC, or since Time Stop doesn't happen in "time" but "no time" it gets skipped when Diavolo skips and erases time anyways

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    • Has it ever been explained that Time Stop extends the actual time by 9 seconds (in DIO's case) but everything except himself is suspended for that period of time, or it allows DIO to move for self-perceived period of 9 seconds within an instant without extending the time itself?

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    • KingCrimsonvsTheWorld

      This is an explanation of how the fight would go. Diavolo wins. End of discussion.

      Diavolo disappears from the erased time, as shown with Aerosmith's bullets NOT hitting him. Dio would move (and attack) exactly as intended during the time stop, but Diavolo just will have never been there.
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    • KC is the most overrated stand but here ya go



      vs a human

      Dio : can easily kill him in the time stop

      in no time and go back to his orginaiiiiiil location 



      Diavolo : will use his ability to go "behind" the human 

      Kakoin him but everyone will see him close (<= 2 meters) to the guy



      tbh time stop is more effective 

      the only way to win is to somehow stop time too

      edit: also if the time stop got erased

      dio can use it just after the time erase (because it didnt happen anyway)

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    • No, things do happen within the time frame. The process of Time Erasure is that the time flows normally for 10 seconds before it's cut out but it leaves the state of reality as it is at the end. Time Stop will still enter cooldown but DIO won't remember it if the ability is used within the erased time.

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    • btw my fav stand is killah queen

      CrimsonDiavolo can you do something useful instead of "i agrEE"  "I %100 AgrEE" to anyone praise KC  stop spamming dude

      Anthonycomen  wow

      shouldnt the result stays the same anyway?

      he would die

      or ya fans always changes his ability to whatever you want nvm.

      (you cant end the discussion, what the.)

      also, Dio CAN use his time stop with a really short cooldown 

      something between 2 seconds (as you know jotaro beat him in 2 seconds before Dio use the ability again)

      and 6 seconds (or something close enough to trick people)

      ؛for example when he used that guy as a driver, 

      everytime the guy tried to escape, DIO stopped time

      bringed him back to the driver seat more than once .

      even if king creams-on erased time, DIO can still use his time stop again, (as you know 10 seconds erase) ,then Kakdonut him again.

      bruh IT JUST WORKS.

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    • The problem is whether Time Stop suspends everything for 9 seconds or creates 9 seconds for DIO to move in a normally perceived instant.

      The former means that outside of erased time, Diavolo is completely vulnerable to Time Stop.

      On the other hand, the latter would provide a more significant advantage for Diavolo as he can easily catch Time Stop within his abilities since it's just an instant to him, no matter how long Time Stop goes. This gives DIO a much smaller window of opportunity to land a hit.

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    • Pretty sure it's the latter.

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    • Xdhoomy12x wrote:
      btw my fav stand is killah queen

      CrimsonDiavolo can you do something useful instead of "i agrEE"  "I %100 AgrEE" to anyone praise KC  stop spamming dude

      Anthonycomen  wow

      shouldnt the result stays the same anyway?

      he would die

      or ya fans always changes his ability to whatever you want nvm.

      (you cant end the discussion, what the.)

      also, Dio CAN use his time stop with a really short cooldown 

      something between 2 seconds (as you know jotaro beat him in 2 seconds before Dio use the ability again)

      and 6 seconds (or something close enough to trick people)

      ؛for example when he used that guy as a driver, 

      everytime the guy tried to escape, DIO stopped time

      bringed him back to the driver seat more than once .

      even if king creams-on erased time, DIO can still use his time stop again, (as you know 10 seconds erase) ,then Kakdonut him again.

      bruh IT JUST WORKS.

      We saw for example how Buccellati still moved as to hit King Crimson during the erased time, which means everything *except* King Crimson interacts with everything else the same, but King Crimson DISAPPEARS from the erased time. To quote Diavolo: "I erased time and -->leapt<-- past it ". As I said previously, you can see this when Aerosmith shot at Risotto and Diavolo, he just went and erased half a second from which he disappeared, so the bullets hit Risotto only. If they fought, Dio would move and attack Diavolo exactly as he intended with his time stop and everything, but Diavolo just will have never been there in the first place, and Dio won't remember having done any of those actions either.

      King Crimson has an A in power and speed, which means it's perfectly comparable to The World in strength.

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    • bruh

      i am out 

      yall just trying to defend a plot holed stand 

      every single one of you

      give a whole new explanation 

      ZW time stops cooldown is way faster than the time erase one

      just after  the time erase DIO will just stop time again

      and kakdount kingcrimson bruh

      also most improtantly

      bruh my English

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    • Xdhoomy12x wrote:
       

      every single one of you

      give a whole new explanation 

      It's called brainstorming, genius. If you can't handle any of it, the most you can try to do is to go to my post and say which one is how Time Stop works and why it should work like that, and maybe we'll go from there on how the fight will progress, instead of straight up repeating the middle of the fight like a broken record.

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    • This isn't a matter of whose ability works in what way, it's a matter of the nature of time. Diavolo cannot erase The World's time stop because there is no time for King Crimson to erase. King Crimson can erase up to 10 seconds of time, sure, but time is not flowing during The World's time stop. Diavolo could erase the time before and after the time stop, but not during.

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    • Diavolo cant "negate" time stop, however he can avoid the effects of the time stop by erasing time

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    • Well technically, King Crimson erases time itself but it doesn't interfere with the rate of time. If Time Stop activates within the erased time, it will still happen regardless. It's just that how Diavolo would perceive DIO's movement depends on how Time Stop works - (1) whether it just suspends everything for 9 seconds or (2) it literally stops time. If DIO activates Time Stop within the erased time frame to move from point A to B and the ability works like: (1), Diavolo should be able to see DIO walking from A to B since he's not influenced by Time Stop.

      (2), Diavolo would definitely see DIO suddenly blinking from A to B since it happens within 0 normal second.

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    • I think scenario 2 is more likely to happen.

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    • It's definitely scenario 2. Time is literally stopped. Epitaph could not forsee the actions DIO takes during time stop nor could King Crimson erase them. If Diavolo's ability is to erase time, he cannot erase actions that occur when time is stopped. There'd be nothing for him to erase.

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    • Essentially, if DIO activated the time stop during a period of time that King Crimson is going to erase, it would "pause" King Crimson's ability, allowing DIO to do what he pleases, until the time stop wore off. Then King Crimson's ability would continue as normal.

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    • So, would DIO remember what he does when the time is stopped within the time frame? Even though it's zero second, it's still within the time frame and King Crimson's ability is to literally rip it out.

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    • But it's not within the time frame. Time straight up isn't moving. It's not within any time frame because it's not within time.

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    • Actions taken within time stop have consequences,unlike actions taken in erased time.So the fraction of time in which everything happens at once after time stop could be erased.

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    • Your correct in that the actions do have consequences, but they all happen during stopped time. Like, DIO definitely donutted Kakyoin during stopped time. It's not like all of DIO's actions occur in a fraction of a second when time resumes, they happen while time isn't passing. Otherwise DIO would just be slowing down time instead of stopping it.

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    • Knowing that Araki is a bit of physics geek, what if Za Warudo is a Stand with physics-based ability that negates gravity that acts on DIO in order to stop time in his perspective?

      When we look at a black hole from earth, we will see that light stops at event horizon due to time dilation effect caused by infinite gravitational force. More importantly, we see light stops there because we are subjected to less gravitational force compared to the light at event horizon. If Za Warudo's ability completely negates any gravitational forces that affect only DIO, then time would stop in his perspective. In this case, stopped time would still be within the time frame.

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    • "Araki is a bit of physics geek"

      "black hole....  infinite gravitational force"

      Clearly you dont know how gravity WORKS :D

      BRUUUH

      well even if KC erased time and diavolo went behind DIO just before the time erase ends like usual,  DIO would just stop time again after its ends

      Bruh bruh

      bruh bruh bruh

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    • How would Dio even know that Diavolo is behind him before being doughnotted by him?

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    • Xdhoomy12x wrote:
       

      Clearly you dont know how gravity WORKS :D

      BRUUUH


      Well, I just said infinite for laymen stuff. You seem to know how gravity works. Enlighten me then, Einstein.

      And do you know that it takes time and alert consciousness for Time Stop to activate? What if King Crimson's chop already makes it halfway in the air near the shoulder while deactivating Time Erasure? What's more is that DIO was already too stunned when critically injured at his knees by Star Platinum. Imagine getting halved by the chop.

      Seriously, do you have anything that's actually substantial instead of these snarky comments at people?

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    • As much as it's appreciated, I'm fairly certain that we can't apply standard physics to The World's time stop. I mean, if it worked according to physics, light wouldn't be moving either and therefore DIO shouldn't be able to see during stopped time. But if course he can, so I think we can rule out quantum physics.

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    • I guess the answer would be yes, but only if King Crimson's ability was activated before DIO stopped time. If DIO stopped time and donutted Diavolo before he could time skip, however, Diavolo would be a dead man. The way I see it, King Crimson's time skip is like a nerfed time stop. Instead of stopping time and his opponents, King Crimson brings the start and end of his ability together, kind of like taking a piece of string, representing time, and bringing two sections of it together, leaving a sort of pocket or loop (I do not mean a time loop). All the actions that characters took during the time skip would happen instantaneously, and would therefore confuse them. Diavolo, on the other hand, would be able to move and think freely during the skipped time, like DIO would during his time stops. If DIO and Diavolo were to meet and do battle, DIO would surely emerge victorious. DIO is just too tanky to get killed by even King Crimson's donutting. Diavolo, on the other hand, is just a human, probably.

      Edit: Hol up.

      Neither King Crimson nor Epitaph can stop time. Therefore, Diavolo can't sense stopped time like DIO and Jotaro. So even if he activated his ability, if DIO's plan was to stop time and donut him, he wouldn't be able to see it coming and get donutted in his time skip. An onlooker would just see Diavolo do whatever he does, then get sent flying with a hole in his chest.

      "SHINEII, DIAVOLO!"

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    • VinceC87 wrote:

      So even if he activated his ability, if DIO's plan was to stop time and donut him, he wouldn't be able to see it coming and get donutted in his time skip.

      Diavolo can see the future though, so even if he can't see what happens within the timestop itself he would still see that he's about to be attacked (as he'd see a hole instantly appear in him) and could thus skip time to avoid it.

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    • Kingasdfg wrote:
      As much as it's appreciated, I'm fairly certain that we can't apply standard physics to The World's time stop. I mean, if it worked according to physics, light wouldn't be moving either and therefore DIO shouldn't be able to see during stopped time. But if course he can, so I think we can rule out quantum physics.

      Yeah, that too. Throwing knives wouldn't be possible under that condition. I guess that Za Warudo only gave him the idea about gravity, not the ability to manipulate it.

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    • GrizonII wrote:
      VinceC87 wrote:

      So even if he activated his ability, if DIO's plan was to stop time and donut him, he wouldn't be able to see it coming and get donutted in his time skip.

      Diavolo can see the future though, so even if he can't see what happens within the timestop itself he would still see that he's about to be attacked (as he'd see a hole instantly appear in him) and could thus skip time to avoid it.

      I understand that Diavolo would be able to see that he gets donutted. However, he'd be basically powerless to defend himself from it because Time Stop would render him immobile. DIO has nine, maybe ten seconds in stopped time. That and the zero gravity Time Stop provides would surely allow DIO to catch and donut Diavolo many times over. So, Diavolo would be able to see the result, but certainly not the cause. Therefore, he wouldn't be able to keep it from happening.

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    • So, it's either:

      A) in a realm of stopped time, all abilities have to pause. This means that Time Erasure can't cut out the moment of stopped time.

      B) by the time DIO stops time, he just basically continues from an already erased point in time, making Time Stop an event meant to be deleted. This is due to how Time Erasure works: It cuts out future instead of the past. So, upon activation, the time is already cut.

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    • Bakeera wrote:
      So, it's either:

      A) in a realm of stopped time, all abilities have to pause. This means that Time Erasure can't cut out the moment of stopped time.

      B) by the time DIO stops time, he just basically continues from an already erased point in time, making Time Stop an event meant to be deleted. This is due to how Time Erasure works: It cuts out future instead of the past. So, upon activation, the time is already cut.

      I guess I'm cool with either of those scenarios, they both seem like they'd work!

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    • Sticky Fingers Ari wrote:
      Bakeera wrote:
      So, it's either:

      A) in a realm of stopped time, all abilities have to pause. This means that Time Erasure can't cut out the moment of stopped time.

      B) by the time DIO stops time, he just basically continues from an already erased point in time, making Time Stop an event meant to be deleted. This is due to how Time Erasure works: It cuts out future instead of the past. So, upon activation, the time is already cut.

      I guess I'm cool with either of those scenarios, they both seem like they'd work!

      But I Think Like This: 

      1) Time Stoped Only Can Works When Has The "Time" To Stop , But KS Epitah Can See A Damage Form TW And "Erase" 10 Seconds, That Time Has Been Cut And Dissapear Don't Has Time TW Can Stop, Dio Can't Remember That . But Diavolo Still Lose By Dio Vampire Durability (4-6 Chance If Continute Attacks Head And Don't Hit By Dio) ,Fist Time Diavolo Don't Attack Dio Head Or If Attack Head Him Can't Destroy Brain With One Attack (KS Attack Polnareff Eyes , If He KS Finger Can Through The Eyes To Attack Brain He Will Do It) But It Still Negative One Dio Brain Part Works Look Like Jotaro Punch To Dio Head And Dio Can't Standing.

      2) Time Stoped "Can Works",And Dio "Remember" When KS Epitah Can See A Damage Form TW And "Erase" 10 Seconds, But Attack of TW Through Diavolo Because Time Erase Before, Flying Knife Of Dio Still Negative( Knife Just Still Flying When Time Resume Or Through Diavolo If Knife Throw Nearly Because It Still Flying Slowly Little Bit And Stop), Diavalo Still Has 2-8 Chance.

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    • Are we talking about if King Crimson can negate The World's stop time? Because yes King Crimson can. (But if KC erases the 10 seconds and The World never stops time, that mean theres no cooldown to stop time when erase time ends)

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    • Sticky Fingers Ari wrote:
      It is impossible to negate stopped time for 3 reasons:

      1. Only Dio would be able to move

      2. There would be no time to skip

      3. There is no known Stand that can completely negate time, only: Stop, Skip, Loop, and Accelerate.

      You forget GER, the stand that negated the time skip

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    • Engardian wrote: I’m pretty sure Diavolo would come out on top. He can see 10 seconds into the future. Say DIO is going to use Za Warudo. Diavolo is looking into the future, and notices that DIO does a bunch of stuff instantaneously. Diavolo can’t see the stopped time, but he could probably figure out that something was up, and erase DIO’s time stop before it happened. Because DIO stops time outside of Za Warudo, he would be affected by King Crimson before he could do anything. In the erased space, DIO would use Za Warudo, but it wouldn’t count. Therefore, DIO’s entire time spent Warudo-ing would be negated. It doesn’t matter what DIO does during the time stop, as King Crimson has already erased that time, so nothing happening during in that period has any effect. Now, DIO’s special power has been negated, but his stand still has great stats. DIO and Diavolo would still have to duke it out the old fashioned way. While DIO has a fatal weakness to sunlight, I doubt Diavolo would be caught dead in broad daylight, haha. So I think Diavolo would best him in the time stand-off(haha), but whatever happens after that is up in the air.

      Except kc doesn't see 10 seconds into the future. It sees what will happen 10 seconds from when he uses the ability. All Epitaph would allow him to see is Diavolo drowning in his own blood.

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    • also Diavolo can only see what happen after 10 seconds 

      and he cant do it, if the enemy is close 

      btw without this ability, theres no way he can win against DIO

      i mean everything he see will happen (including the damage)

      what is the point of erasing time 

      after all ,this stand just works 

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    • Diavolo predicting how he'll get damaged and how much damage he'll recieve is essential to know how much time he needs to skip and/or where he needs to go to avoid it.

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    • Xdhoomy12x
      Xdhoomy12x removed this reply because:
      my reply is bad time to try again
      12:38, July 8, 2019
      This reply has been removed
    • "it is only the results that remain in this world!"

      orange boi got attacked in erased time

      but didnt that kill him after all

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    • This is already concluded. Yes you can erease stopped time, because even if time is stoped there are thing ocurring in there. But even if you cant, Diavolo could justo change his position before time is stopped so DIO still would act unconsciously and try to attack Diavolo in the position he have before time skip. Because the Time Stop happens in 0 seconds of real time, Diavolo would have the remaning time to posicion himself and punch DIO's head when time resumes. And no, DIO needs to activate consciously the time stop, if he gets attacked unexpectedly he would be already dead when he realizes that King Crimson is attacking him, just like in the fight of Jotaro vs DIO, when Polnareff appear of nowhere and pierced DIO's head, in wich case DIO himself says that if he pierced harder he could destroy his head. Now put the same case but with a punch of King Crimson that could easily destroy a humans body or a head, similar like he do to Gold Experience in the end of VA. Just the fact that both King Crimson and Star Platinum have A probes this. Especially taking on count that Diavolo always attack trying to kill.

      Even then, if you say that Diavolo rather would go to punch his chest in his attemp to kill DIO, we need to remember that DIO needs blood to regenarate critical wounds, just like we see in part 3. So, if we are taking a neutral scenario with no people besides them, DIO would be wounded, and with Epitaph seeing whatever he try to do (Like try to stop time to counterattack), and Diavolo would again erease time and punching another critical hit, that probably be in the head, taking in count that Diavolo already see that attacking other places is pointless. Add to this that in all the fight DIO knowladge of Diavolo's power would be nule or would be to late for him to make something.

      If we talk about DIO with Joeastar blood it would be differente, but that not would be a fair scenario.

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    • King Crimson can't erase stopped time. That makes no sense. There's no "time" to erase. If DIO's ability simply compressed all of his actions into a fraction of a second, then King Crimson could erase it, but that's not what happens. The World completely stops the flow of time. Actions that occur here do not occur during "time" and therefore would not be erased when time is erased.

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    • King Crimson can skip the time stop from being activated itself, not the stopped time.

      While you could say it essentialy skips the stopped time (cuz in reality it never happened), but this just means that The World/SP didnt use any stamina to stop time and can stop it again right after time has been skipped, because it was not put on cooldown. 

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    • Gakamis wrote: King Crimson can skip the time stop from being activated itself, not the stopped time.

      While you could say it essentialy skips the stopped time (cuz in reality it never happened), but this just means that The World/SP didnt use any stamina to stop time and can stop it again right after time has been skipped, because it was not put on cooldown. 

      But this opens up a whole new can of worms. During the erased time, people other than Diavolo still behave as they're fated to (whatever Epitaph shows then doing.) But if DIO is fated to stop time, what does he accomplish? If he were fated to, say, push a chair over, would that still happen?

      The only consequences that are avoided are ones that apply to Diavolo, but if DIO was fated to move other objects during stopped time, but the stopped time was erased, would those objects still move? Or would King Crimson be able to defy fate in things other than himself now?

      Honestly I think I'm in favor of the time stop working during erased time because it's easier to understand lol.

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    • Jotaro could win against diavolo, be it "random encounter", "bloodlust showdown", or even "diavolo seeking to assasinate jotaro". Let me explain.



      Most people have probably forgot Star Platinum's first & original ability, his passive "Ultra-keen-precog/precision".

      This ability is what let him & starplatinum "gradually react & adapt" to dio's time-stop ability, and eventually, "learn" how to do it. Eventually developing Starplatinum: The World.

      Despite starplatinum's stand archetype being a currency between "major characters", its "ultra-keen-precog/precision" skill is what make starplatinum & jotaro have a higher "sensorial/paranormal/psionic grasp" between their shared consciousness.




      I can imagine the scene.

      Jotaro travels to italy alongside koichi & starts seeking for whatever happened to polnareff, the latter not entering contact to speedwagon's foundation for a long time started this matter.

      Jotaro eventually knows about this "passione" organization by running over any of it's stand user henchmen, and manage to killing-spree several of then, looking for this "boss" person who commands passione from the shadows.  

      His experience in stardust crusaders journey & his "lack of awareness" in morioh's campaing, has turned him more "vigilante" about "stand actions" in his surroundings during this "gangstar campaing", making star platinum almost always active "inside him", exploiting it's "ultra-keen-precog/precision".

      He's dealing with stand users trained to assasinate, that can come from anywhere, as dangeous as dio's hitmans & servants




      The information about this "jotaro person" reaches diavolo. Including his time-controling stand & that there's this other short-guy that can manage "3 different stands", who joined bucciarati group.

      Diavolo sends doppio in order to execute this jotaro person, the latter who decided to act alone, while koichi takes the passive investigation while on bucciarati group.

      Doppio eventually met jotaro & diavolo starts instructing doppio with epitaph & king crimson's arms procedure in order assasinate this person, while disguised/hidden.

      This proceeds to fail several times. For some reason, epitaph never shows doppio a vision of him "attempting to assault jotaro" whenever it gets disguised/ready for a sneak attack. Doppio always seems retreating in those.

      Diavolo then manages to kick-in a narrative for doppio in order to "switch in" and take the lead.

      This time, diavolo is full control, still disguised as doppio, with king crimson full power.

      Diavolo manages to look at epitaph, sees himself aproaching jotaro in timeskip (doppio appearence, with a colegial costume).

      King crimson appears on jotaro's back. Star platinum's arm appears from jotaro's back & counters king crimson "arm backstab", then fully appearing & outclassing king crimson with it's ora-barrage. Diavolo gets multiple blunt-trauma injuries over his body in the process.

      The diavolo's epitaph vision ends with jotaro still normally walking foward, around 1.5 seconds later jotaro feels a "sudden thud", as it had a hypnic jerk/jumpscare, instantly all the images of everything that starplatinum has done appeared in his memory, by summoning itself & fighting other stand as "subcounsciousness reaction" over his "ultra-keen precog/precision, over a course of 10 seconds.


      Given that scenario, Diavolo has some of these options:

      1 - Instead of attacking, using his time-skip to avoid an encounter with jotaro, then "retreats". Start gathering passione's most loyal members to elaborate a strategy for killing/weakening jotaro for him. Jotaro eventually joining bucciarati & crippled polnareff. Both jotaro & koichi influence would avoid several casualties, giving a upper hand to bucciarati's team in the "Requiem Arrow" race.



      2 - Keep tracking jotaro as "colegial doppio disguise", while watching more scenarios where he gets overpowered & have to time-skip everytime in order to change fate where "the worst for him comes".



      3 - "Confront destiny", trying to "force" his victory over star platinum. Using diavolo's "untargetable/intangible" body, operating "chance" & creating openings for kingcrimson's feint-attacks at jotaro's body, only to be blocked & tanked by star platinum ultra-precog/precision over kingcrimson's time-skip spatial changes.

      Meanwhile jotaro's counsciousness is fighting in starplatinum's, within time, his body & mind gets even more "immersed" in the spatial changes caused by each of king crimson's time-skip as the time passes, until starplatinum eventually:
      a) Becomes capable of stopping time during the time-skips;
      b) Develops a new stand ability, Star Platinum: King Crimson.

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    • Pintassilgo wrote:
      Jotaro could win against diavolo, be it "random encounter", "bloodlust showdown", or even "diavolo seeking to assasinate jotaro". Let me explain.


      Most people have probably forgot Star Platinum's first & original ability, his passive "Ultra-keen-precog/precision".

      This ability is what let him & starplatinum "gradually react & adapt" to dio's time-stop ability, and eventually, "learn" how to do it. Eventually developing Starplatinum: The World.

      Despite starplatinum's stand archetype being a currency between "major characters", its "ultra-keen-precog/precision" skill is what make starplatinum & jotaro have a higher "sensorial/paranormal/psionic grasp" between their shared consciousness.




      I can imagine the scene.

      Jotaro travels to italy alongside koichi & starts seeking for whatever happened to polnareff, the latter not entering contact to speedwagon's foundation for a long time started this matter.

      Jotaro eventually knows about this "passione" organization by running over any of it's stand user henchmen, and manage to killing-spree several of then, looking for this "boss" person who commands passione from the shadows.  

      His experience in stardust crusaders journey & his "lack of awareness" in morioh's campaing, has turned him more "vigilante" about "stand actions" in his surroundings during this "gangstar campaing", making star platinum almost always active "inside him", exploiting it's "ultra-keen-precog/precision".

      He's dealing with stand users trained to assasinate, that can come from anywhere, as dangeous as dio's hitmans & servants




      The information about this "jotaro person" reaches diavolo. Including his time-controling stand & that there's this other short-guy that can manage "3 different stands", who joined bucciarati group.

      Diavolo sends doppio in order to execute this jotaro person, the latter who decided to act alone, while koichi takes the passive investigation while on bucciarati group.

      Doppio eventually met jotaro & diavolo starts instructing doppio with epitaph & king crimson's arms procedure in order assasinate this person, while disguised/hidden.

      This proceeds to fail several times. For some reason, epitaph never shows doppio a vision of him "attempting to assault jotaro" whenever it gets disguised/ready for a sneak attack. Doppio always seems retreating in those.

      Diavolo then manages to kick-in a narrative for doppio in order to "switch in" and take the lead.

      This time, diavolo is full control, still disguised as doppio, with king crimson full power.

      Diavolo manages to look at epitaph, sees himself aproaching jotaro in timeskip (doppio appearence, with a colegial costume).

      King crimson appears on jotaro's back. Star platinum's arm appears from jotaro's back & counters king crimson "arm backstab", then fully appearing & outclassing king crimson with it's ora-barrage. Diavolo gets multiple blunt-trauma injuries over his body in the process.

      The diavolo's epitaph vision ends with jotaro still normally walking foward, around 1.5 seconds later jotaro feels a "sudden thud", as it had a hypnic jerk/jumpscare, instantly all the images of everything that starplatinum has done appeared in his memory, by summoning itself & fighting other stand as "subcounsciousness reaction" over his "ultra-keen precog/precision, over a course of 10 seconds.


      Given that scenario, Diavolo has some of these options:

      1 - Instead of attacking, using his time-skip to avoid an encounter with jotaro, then "retreats". Start gathering passione's most loyal members to elaborate a strategy for killing/weakening jotaro for him. Jotaro eventually joining bucciarati & crippled polnareff. Both jotaro & koichi influence would avoid several casualties, giving a upper hand to bucciarati's team in the "Requiem Arrow" race.



      2 - Keep tracking jotaro as "colegial doppio disguise", while watching more scenarios where he gets overpowered & have to time-skip everytime in order to change fate where "the worst for him comes".



      3 - "Confront destiny", trying to "force" his victory over star platinum. Using diavolo's "untargetable/intangible" body, operating "chance" & creating openings for kingcrimson's feint-attacks at jotaro's body, only to be blocked & tanked by star platinum ultra-precog/precision over kingcrimson's time-skip spatial changes.

      Meanwhile jotaro's counsciousness is fighting in starplatinum's, within time, his body & mind gets even more "immersed" in the spatial changes caused by each of king crimson's time-skip as the time passes, until starplatinum eventually:
      a) Becomes capable of stopping time during the time-skips;
      b) Develops a new stand ability, Star Platinum: King Crimson.

      I'm gonna asume that all this shit is a joke. A very expansive joke. There are so many thing wrong that is hard to find a place to beguin. 

      First of all. Star Platinum never had a ability that let him to "adapt" to others abilitys, I understand if is your teory but is far away from being somthing even possible. Jotaro's ability is stop time, that's all. Is the same case with DIO, who get the stand but discovered that The World can stop time several months later after obtaining his stand, Stardust Crusaders occurred in at least 2 or 3 months, so Jotaro eventually discovers his ability to stop time in the fight with DIO. That's all, nothing more.

      Even then, I agree that Star Platinum has this "precognitive" ability. But is mostly that has very good time reaction and having much speed make it look like a "precognitive" ability. That's all. In most of the times Jotaro needs to have some type of awareness to allow Star Platinum to react. 



      Other thing, Epitaph can't see King Crimson eraseing time. That's the whole thing with King Crimson ereased time, is a ability that let Diavolo untie himself from destiny, so it would make no sense that Epitaph, a stand that sees the future (destiny) would see Ereased Time. Just like all the GER thing in the end of VA. 



      Yo are just overpowering Jotaro for literal no reason.

      And no, even Star Platinum would have problems to react after King Crimson's time skip and blocking a full atack of King Crimson would be a problem, even for Jotaro, especially because Diavolo can use Epitaph to see if Jotaro even attemps to strike back, so he just needs to avoid it.

      If Diavolo has this shity ability, it would be easy to defeat the rat stand user himself with his ability, but even then he gets pierced be the rat. No sense.



      Diavolo wins over Jotaro (Especially because he has no vampire ability to regenerate himself).

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    • IcePony wrote: First of all. Star Platinum never had a ability that let him to "adapt" to others abilitys, I understand if is your teory but is far away from being somthing even possible. Jotaro's ability is stop time, that's all. Is the same case with DIO, who get the stand but discovered that The World can stop time several months later after obtaining his stand, Stardust Crusaders occurred in at least 2 or 3 months, so Jotaro eventually discovers his ability to stop time in the fight with DIO. That's all, nothing more.

      Even then, I agree that Star Platinum has this "precognitive" ability. But is mostly that has very good time reaction and having much speed make it look like a "precognitive" ability. That's all. In most of the times Jotaro needs to have some type of awareness to allow Star Platinum to react. 

      Other thing, Epitaph can't see King Crimson eraseing time. That's the whole thing with King Crimson ereased time, is a ability that let Diavolo untie himself from destiny, so it would make no sense that Epitaph, a stand that sees the future (destiny) would see Ereased Time. Just like all the GER thing in the end of VA. 


      Yo are just overpowering Jotaro for literal no reason.

      And no, even Star Platinum would have problems to react after King Crimson's time skip and blocking a full atack of King Crimson would be a problem, even for Jotaro, especially because Diavolo can use Epitaph to see if Jotaro even attemps to strike back, so he just needs to avoid it.

      If Diavolo has this shity ability, it would be easy to defeat the rat stand user himself with his ability, but even then he gets pierced be the rat. No sense.


      Diavolo wins over Jotaro (Especially because he has no vampire ability to regenerate himself).


      Star platinum's main ability is the "ultra precision/precog" thing, not starplatinum: the world.
      I'm stating all jotaro's main assets since part 3, based on it's previous experiences during stardust crusader's & morioh's campaing, "AS 'PART 3 JOTARO'" would be, just as someone would put the "8X years old part 2 joseph", with still-praticizing hamon & hermit purple, against pucci. 

      Jotaro's nerfed states from part 4 & part 6 is a common plot-device practice to "show-off" the next employed assets on the "current protagonist/deuteragonists".
      Just like what happens in boruto manga, naruto needing to go kurama-chakra mode against any character, and still doing nothing above street-level (when it should be a casual continental buster, with planet level durability).


      This ultra-precog/precision ability is what let starplatinum "react" to theworld's time-stop.
      In their final fight, each time dio stopped time, he hesitated several times, didn't attacked jotaro right in because he "felt" something "not right".
      This was starplatinum (and those magnets trick), that could still partially move during time-stop.

      Both jotaro & starplatinum "ADAPTED" during dio's fight, to eventually develop starplatinum: the world.

      I suppose this "adaptation thing" is a side-effect to the precog/precision ability, which only apply to time-space related abilities. Just like the several "biometric interactions" the objects goldexperience gives life to, or crazydiamond being able to change the "shapes, components, directions & symmetries" of things with his "restoration" ability.
      Furthemore, in the very end that's how he was capable to "deal with dio", starplatinum hadn't "starplatinum: the world" until after the "road roller" thing.
      It was able to trade blows with theworld during it's time-stop, without having a time-stop ability in the first place.

      The same would happen fighting against diavolo.
      Using epiphet, diavolo would ALWAYS see starplatinum reacting to both him & king crimson's aproach & attacks "to some degree" (it would "sense" a presence "phasing" in their direction), both during & after time-skip.

      Diavolo's "blood throw" would be blocked by starplatinum, seeing it as a stand ability.
      Dio & the world knives throw were way more faster & dangerous, and a "less time-aware starplatinum" could block most of it.
      Starplatinum could still "push/pull" jotaro's "unaware" body in order to dodge.

      Jotaro would still "feel confused" after the first timeskip, but starplatinum witnessed & experienced everything, and those would "thud" to his memory, as a "jumpscare/hypnic jerk", after this specific "first" time-skip end.
      The "adaptation" part would start from the next time-skips and so on.


      If diavolo decides to start it's assault & sneak-attack jotaro regardless of it's visions, the fight would "last long enough" for starplatinum to develop "starplatinum: king crimson".
      Or if jotaro manages to just "time-stop" after one of those time-skip ends. 

      While "roaming over italy" alone, based on stardust crusaders campaign, jotaro is with starplatinum's head & arms "always-on" (part 3 jotaro don't necessarily need starplatinum to "jump high"), but "inside of him", following it's carefulness by killing-spree over passione (as explained in previous comment).


      Unless we're talking about the plot-nerfed jotaro & starplatinum from part 4 & 6. There's even a "new stat charts" on each part to explicitly show the nerfed starplatinum.
      Starplatinum's ultra-precog/precision skill is long forgotten in those parts (save some "casual" exceptions).

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    • I too will believe this Star Platinum adpatation is a shitty joke. Do you believe in the dumb joke that Jotaro's ability is to copy abilitys?

      Star Platinum has time stop because its the same type of stand as Za Warudo. It only activated during the final battle because Star Platinum's self preservation. (Now for the shit reason why Dio wasn't able to move in stop time I'll never know)

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    • ¿You have some type of evidence from the manga/anime that proves that star platinum true ability is the "ultra precision/precog" thing? Because otherwise you are just using a theory as a canon thing. Even if you do resarch in wikias or even in manga scans, its just that Star Platinum has his own consciousness and fast reaction, but nothing about a "precognitive" shit. Thing like Star Platinum punching knifes is just the same precision+power+speed combination, just like The World literally. 


      And is impossible to anything to react in the ereased time (Unless you are GER), because that's the whole point of the ability, all thing that are in ereased time are destinated to do the things that are supossed to do, like: If Epitaph sees that Star Platinum blocks King Crimson attemps to throw blood from the right, Diavolo just have to do it from the left side and Star Platinum can do literally nothing to change that, unless he has an ability releated to fate manipulation, it would be unless to do anything.


      And if you are using a narrative jotaro post part 3/4 versus Diavolo that would also mean that you are talking about a very nerfed Jotaro, especially because it has passed 2 years since Diamond is Unbreakable and just to give an example, the time stop would have like 1 or 2 seconds.

      AND EVEN if Jotaro has this shitty ability to learn how to use temporal abilitys (Thing that he don't have btw) Diavolo would (And probably is going) to kill Jotaro in only 2 or 3 attemps, even with the capability of Star Platinum, King Crimson is presumibly more strong that Star Platinum himself, and considarating that is not that this is a surprise attack, but an attack attemped after a time skip in wich yoy lost conscience, it would be easier to King Crimson to pierce Jotaro or Star Platinum himself, especially taking in count Epitaph.

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    • the guys with time-related abilites

      can notice it 

      jotaro saw DIO in his time stop 

      pucci noticed jotaro's spear or whatever that thing

      if diavolo erased time

      then DIO or jotaro will know where did he go

      just like how pucci noticed the bruh

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    • Xdhoomy12x wrote: the guys with time-related abilites

      can notice it 

      jotaro saw DIO in his time stop 

      pucci noticed jotaro's spear or whatever that thing

      if diavolo erased time

      then DIO or jotaro will know where did he go

      just like how pucci noticed the bruh

      Following that logic then shouldn’t Jotaro have been able to see Pucci’s movements perfectly fine in accelerated time as well? Just because someone can see the enemy’s movements in one time power’s effects doesn’t mean they can see in every type of time ability.

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    • A FANDOM user
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