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  • I think the most powerful is Valentine and the weaker is Kira

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    • The strongest is Pucci. Made In Heaven is the second strongest stand in Jojo and Funny Valentine wouldn't be able to react to it's ability. If this was just a blind fight where they both provoked each other, Valentine wouldn't know that he would need D4C Love Train, and probably wouldn't have the means to use it anyway. Pucci has been able to win against characters with great reaction timing, and Valentine is nothing different. He's just too fast for D4C.

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    • Pucci, MIH is kinda invincible =P

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    • Konaka20
      Konaka20 removed this reply because:
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      21:30, January 14, 2019
      This reply has been removed
    • Gold Experience Requiem.

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    • In sheer "affecting stuff" ability, Pucci is certainly the mightiest, but he also remains human. Ultimate Kars could simply kill all of the villains save Valentine thanks to his evolutionary ability in one way or another. Kira is the overall weaker, but ironically he's the only one with a good shot at Kars.

      And for Valentine, he'd just fly away and wait a little century.

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    • Canon: Pucci. +Non-Canon: Heaven Ascension DIO

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    • Zodazzle wrote:
      The strongest is Pucci. Made In Heaven is the second strongest stand in Jojo and Funny Valentine wouldn't be able to react to it's ability. If this was just a blind fight where they both provoked each other, Valentine wouldn't know that he would need D4C Love Train, and probably wouldn't have the means to use it anyway. Pucci has been able to win against characters with great reaction timing, and Valentine is nothing different. He's just too fast for D4C.

      When doing versus debates, a general rule of thumb is that during the fight all characters are in their prime state of power, so assuming this, Valentine  would indeed have Love Train.

      Now as for my opinion on this, due to Kars' ability to adapt to everything that comes his way, Kars would take out Yoshikage Kira, and Diovalo. However, this leaves DIO and Pucci. Pucci would fight along with DIO, and the two would murder Kars, as well as any other survivors(with the exception of Valentine), as the ability to reset reality and stop time is so broken that almost nothing can beat it. Since we're allowing characters in their prime, yes HA DIO would be allowed, which means DIO would ultimately win if he got off a reality overwrite before Pucci. Pucci wins this otherwise.

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    • Woah now, this was never a pit fight between all villians at once. This was more like "if the villians were to come up against each other in a tournament 1v1 style, who would win?". Also, since Love Train requires someone with Ticket to Ride (which requires them to have all corpse parts fused with them), it shouldn't be allowed. Valentine would need someone with Ticket to Ride next to them, which is basically bringing another player into the fight/ a 2v1. It's not fair to the other.

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    • Zodazzle wrote:
      Woah now, this was never a pit fight between all villians at once. This was more like "if the villians were to come up against each other in a tournament 1v1 style, who would win?". Also, since Love Train requires someone with Ticket to Ride (which requires them to have all corpse parts fused with them), it shouldn't be allowed. Valentine would need someone with Ticket to Ride next to them, which is basically bringing another player into the fight/ a 2v1. It's not fair to the other.

      He doesn't nesscarily need the User of Ticket To Ride to use Love Train, thus it doesn't violate the "No outside help" rule. However, regardless of his ability to use Love Train, Valentine could just have his Stand switch dimensions.

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    • And that would be pretty much leaving the fight if he stayed in it for too long.

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    • Zodazzle wrote:
      And that would be pretty much leaving the fight if he stayed in it for too long.

      He didn't technically lose, but he didn't technically win either. Also, couldn't he jsut hit them from the dimenstion he hid in?

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    • Thats... not how D4C works at all. Funny Valentine isn't in the same dimension with the same thigns, he's in a different timeline. And besides, there is no way to transfer damage between dimensions.

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    • Depends what you mean by most powerful. Assuming we're going by their strongest forms, Pucci with MiH can have the largest effect on the world if needed. However, Valentine with both D4C and Love Train still has more powerful defensive capabilites, being nearly invincible and being able to replace himself as he dies. In 1v1 combat MiH can beat any of them by resetting the world and killing them in the "past". I'd say ultimate Kars likely has the most versatile abilities though, as he can change into any life he wants for any purpose, while the other villians abilities are tailored to do generally just a few things. Weakest is Phantom Blood Dio if he counts, if not then Kira.

      EDIT: unless we're including all villians, then the weakest is the superfly user; he actually doesn't have any abilities of his own (since his stand responds to him and others exactly the same way) aside from some hand calluses.

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    • kars

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    • Kars, merely by implication Sure, Diovalo erases time, Dio stops time and is a vamp, Pucci accelerates time. Kars can theoretically do all of that

      The Ultimate Being form allows you to control all of life, which would include Stand Users. So we have ome impressive implications when under the correct conditions 

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    • I'm not so certain Kars can create stands, and it's definitely not canon. And besides, he would also need to have a stand in order to know that stands exist. And he doesn't.

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    • In my point of view I will say that Pucci and his stand MIH would win also about Valentine and Love Train help. Isn’t Pucci MIH was evolved from C-Moon what got help from green baby by fusing itself and White Snake. So by your logic Pucci is only allowed to use White Snake which changes the outcome of the battle completely.

      So, if Pucci will have White Snake then Valentine with his D4C will probably win because he can just transport himself in other dimensions with ease plus his stats. Everything except for range is A and as in physical appearance as the users themselves, Valentine and Pucci are the same.

      Oh by the way if you will say that Pucci can steel his stand with WS, no because for D4C to be stolen you need to steal heart of saint corpse. After all Part 7 stand earning works differently.

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    • Zodazzle wrote:
      I'm not so certain Kars can create stands, and it's definitely not canon. And besides, he would also need to have a stand in order to know that stands exist. And he doesn't.

      Yet he can do anything a living being can, that would logically include Stand Users. Damn shame Stands weren't a thing until part 3

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    • I think it’d be quite interesting to see Ultimate Lifeform Kars w/ a Stand. Knowing Kars, it’d likely have quite a broken ability.

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    • Stands are a manifestation of the soul, not a physical charictaristic. Kars wouldn't be able to create them unless he could somehow control or create souls themselves.

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    • Stands are confirmed by Vento Aureo to simply be a side effect of a virus that came from the meteorites the stand arrows were made from. So they aren't lifeforms but could still could be made.

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    • So going through each villain:

      Dio from part 1 is arguably the weakest, which is saying a lot considering the shear power he had, but after the advent of stands, Dio’s Original form is much weaker.

      Kars is the purely strongest, surpassing even that of semi-powerful stand users with his abilities. But, him not being to see stands, if we are accounting for this, gives him a slight disadvantage.

      DIO from part 3 is definably stronger than his part 1 variant. He may be missing his freezing and eye laser powers, but what he loses he gains in The World, the original OP stand (If we aren’t counting Star Platinum). His maximum of 9 seconds for time stop actually allows him to take out most low level stand users in a second. I’m using The World as the standard of an overpowering stand.

      Kira is last, under the situation of a direct fight. Killer Queen, it’s second bomb Sheer Heart Attack, and it’s third bomb Bites the Dust, weren't designed for direct combat. They were designed for stealth. Killer Queen leaves no evidence of it’s explosions, Sheer Heart Attack is designed dispose of targets from a distance, and the entire use of Bites the Dust is to hide it’s user identity.

      I still have no clue how King Crimson works.

      Whitesnake, C-Moon, and finally Made in Heaven are scary powerful, and are a threat in any scenario.

      And don’t get me started on D4C.

      So overall in my opinion: 1. Made in Heaven 2. D4C 3. King Crimson and The World 4. Kars 5. Killer Queen 6. Part 1 Dio

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    • King Crimson sees ten seconds into the future, then video edits the future he doesn't like out of the timeline. Time is forced to readjust.

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    • Zodazzle wrote:
      Stands are confirmed by Vento Aureo to simply be a side effect of a virus that came from the meteorites the stand arrows were made from. So they aren't lifeforms but could still could be made.

      So that's why Giorno created a turtle that had a Stand

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    • Kaweaki
      Kaweaki removed this reply because:
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      07:44, July 10, 2019
      This reply has been removed
    • Q6w7e8r9t0 I mean technically the weakest stand is Cheap trick since he only kills the user and is only useful for mayhem and barely even then. (Could also be survivor but it still carries some use)

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    • Kars

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    • Ultimate Kars, definitely.

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    • Lorde Snow77 wrote:
      I think the most powerful is Valentine and the weaker is Kira

      I think it was Funny Valentine. If you think about Diego beat Johnny with the use of D4C and even Funny can't beat Johnny. So what if you bring Funny in all parts? Pucci will achieve Heaven within a few chapters. Unless he was the one who's fighting for the main antagonist that will work

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    • Boysmith2003 wrote:

      Zodazzle wrote:
      The strongest is Pucci. Made In Heaven is the second strongest stand in Jojo and Funny Valentine wouldn't be able to react to it's ability. If this was just a blind fight where they both provoked each other, Valentine wouldn't know that he would need D4C Love Train, and probably wouldn't have the means to use it anyway. Pucci has been able to win against characters with great reaction timing, and Valentine is nothing different. He's just too fast for D4C.

      When doing versus debates, a general rule of thumb is that during the fight all characters are in their prime state of power, so assuming this, Valentine  would indeed have Love Train.

      Now as for my opinion on this, due to Kars' ability to adapt to everything that comes his way, Kars would take out Yoshikage Kira, and Diovalo. However, this leaves DIO and Pucci. Pucci would fight along with DIO, and the two would murder Kars, as well as any other survivors(with the exception of Valentine), as the ability to reset reality and stop time is so broken that almost nothing can beat it. Since we're allowing characters in their prime, yes HA DIO would be allowed, which means DIO would ultimately win if he got off a reality overwrite before Pucci. Pucci wins this otherwise.

      What in the world makes you think Dio and Pucci could kill ultimate Kars?

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    • KarsMarsBars wrote:

      Boysmith2003 wrote:

      Zodazzle wrote:
      The strongest is Pucci. Made In Heaven is the second strongest stand in Jojo and Funny Valentine wouldn't be able to react to it's ability. If this was just a blind fight where they both provoked each other, Valentine wouldn't know that he would need D4C Love Train, and probably wouldn't have the means to use it anyway. Pucci has been able to win against characters with great reaction timing, and Valentine is nothing different. He's just too fast for D4C.
      When doing versus debates, a general rule of thumb is that during the fight all characters are in their prime state of power, so assuming this, Valentine  would indeed have Love Train.

      Now as for my opinion on this, due to Kars' ability to adapt to everything that comes his way, Kars would take out Yoshikage Kira, and Diovalo. However, this leaves DIO and Pucci. Pucci would fight along with DIO, and the two would murder Kars, as well as any other survivors(with the exception of Valentine), as the ability to reset reality and stop time is so broken that almost nothing can beat it. Since we're allowing characters in their prime, yes HA DIO would be allowed, which means DIO would ultimately win if he got off a reality overwrite before Pucci. Pucci wins this otherwise.

      What in the world makes you think Dio and Pucci could kill ultimate Kars?

      Exactly. Nothing within their capabilities could kill Ultimate Kars. He can survive at a cellular level. Even if they somehow managed to reduce him to paste, he'd just come back.

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    • DraculaCronqvist wrote:
      KarsMarsBars wrote:

      Boysmith2003 wrote:


      Zodazzle wrote:
      The strongest is Pucci. Made In Heaven is the second strongest stand in Jojo and Funny Valentine wouldn't be able to react to it's ability. If this was just a blind fight where they both provoked each other, Valentine wouldn't know that he would need D4C Love Train, and probably wouldn't have the means to use it anyway. Pucci has been able to win against characters with great reaction timing, and Valentine is nothing different. He's just too fast for D4C.
      When doing versus debates, a general rule of thumb is that during the fight all characters are in their prime state of power, so assuming this, Valentine  would indeed have Love Train.

      Now as for my opinion on this, due to Kars' ability to adapt to everything that comes his way, Kars would take out Yoshikage Kira, and Diovalo. However, this leaves DIO and Pucci. Pucci would fight along with DIO, and the two would murder Kars, as well as any other survivors(with the exception of Valentine), as the ability to reset reality and stop time is so broken that almost nothing can beat it. Since we're allowing characters in their prime, yes HA DIO would be allowed, which means DIO would ultimately win if he got off a reality overwrite before Pucci. Pucci wins this otherwise.

      What in the world makes you think Dio and Pucci could kill ultimate Kars?
      Exactly. Nothing within their capabilities could kill Ultimate Kars. He can survive at a cellular level. Even if they somehow managed to reduce him to paste, he'd just come back.

      Kars is an ageless Super Adaptoid. He's not immortal. I'm sure regeneration at the cellular level, while powerful, could not stop a reality altering centaur with infinite speed. Nor could Kars stop a giant golden man who can stop time and kill you in what appears to be an instant. Now considering Kars can be what life is, he could potentially develop a Stand, but would have no idea what it could do before his untimely death at the hands of our favorite Brittish vampire and his boyfriend.

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    • Kars

      he is the ultimate life form, he can't die.

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    • BeamishBull wrote:
      Kars

      he is the ultimate life form, he can't die.

      He can actually,m considering he's braindead as of the end of Battle Tendency. If things can be hurt, they can die. 

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    • Boysmith2003 wrote:
      BeamishBull wrote:
      Kars

      he is the ultimate life form, he can't die.

      He can actually,m considering he's braindead as of the end of Battle Tendency. If things can be hurt, they can die. 

      Oh ok.



      DIO over heaven then

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    • He can’t die lol. And over heaven isn’t canon.

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    • KarsMarsBars wrote:
      He can’t die lol. And over heaven isn’t canon.

      IDC if it's not canon, he's still OP. If we're talking canon, then i think pucci or valentine.

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    • KarsMarsBars wrote:
      He can’t die lol. And over heaven isn’t canon.

      He ceased brain fucntion, otherwise known as becoming braindead and the funny part of being braindead is that your body will die within a day after braindeath because the body needs the brain to function.

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    • Wouldn’t it function differently for him? I mean he’s the ultimate Lifeform. He could be braindead but his body could still very much be alive.

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    • KarsMarsBars wrote:
      Wouldn’t it function differently for him? I mean he’s the ultimate Lifeform. He could be braindead but his body could still very much be alive.

      Do you comprehend the meaning of "braindeath"?

      He's mentally vegetative, and eventually, his body will shut down entirely. He's dead.

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    • well isn't that kinda what happens when they seal themselves into the pillars??? say one day he was to crash land back on earth if someone investigated and touched him could he just you know absorb them and then get to work??? idk if this is how it works but yeah kars is cool

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    • Jpoim13 wrote:
      well isn't that kinda what happens when they seal themselves into the pillars??? say one day he was to crash land back on earth if someone investigated and touched him could he just you know absorb them and then get to work??? idk if this is how it works but yeah kars is cool

      No. they are still fully consious and thinking within the pillars. They're just in a state of stasis.

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    • Boysmith2003 wrote:
      KarsMarsBars wrote:
      Wouldn’t it function differently for him? I mean he’s the ultimate Lifeform. He could be braindead but his body could still very much be alive.
      Do you comprehend the meaning of "braindeath"?

      He's mentally vegetative, and eventually, his body will shut down entirely. He's dead.

      Except it is stated explicitly that Kars can't die. He wishes to die, but cannot. Thus, he stops all concious thought. That makes him *like* braindead, but not actually braindead in a medical sense.

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    • Yes, thank you

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    • Zodazzle wrote:
      Gold Experience Requiem.

      That's not a villian, that's a hero.

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    • Canon : Pucci

      Not-Canon : Heaven DIO

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    • RealMattForsyth wrote:
      Zodazzle wrote:
      Gold Experience Requiem.
      That's not a villian, that's a hero.

      Check my first message, I state Pucci.

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    • Gold Experience requiem IS a villain

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    • Oh? and what makes you say that?

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    • well if we put this into perspective giorno is the head of the mafia gang "Passione" this may seem countered by his dream to 'keep drugs out of reach of kids in the streets' but this does not outrule the fact that he is a mafia boss and that he most likely will need to make some choices in future which will further prove that he is a villain

      he may be a jojo but it doesn't mean he's a 'good guy'

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    • He and team bucciarati also brutally murdered the gang members too lol. Giorno wanted to stop Diavolo from selling drugs and ended up sending him into an infinite death loop just because he snuck his nose where it didn’t belong. I’d say ger is pretty evil

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    • But THEY were evil

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    • Agh, i cant be bothered to keep up conversations on the internet either, im exhausted from exams.

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    • No that’s fine lol.

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    • Giorno isnt evil tho, if he was he'd massacare the whole of italy.....

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    • He’s evil

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    • KarsMarsBars wrote:
      He’s evil

      He's not. The morality you're looking for is Chaotic Good. While firmly under the Good spectrum (a decent human being) being Chaotic means he gives ZERO FUCKS about just how far he goes to put someone down.

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    • Ok, so Giorno is if dio was actually a mc

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    • well still i guess we all have our own opinions

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    • Though some of them aren’t always right

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    • Like the thought of Ultimate Kars losing to Dio and Pucci. Even if he was pummeled by DIO in timestop he’d shrug it off as though it was nothing.

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    • I dunno now, if Pucci and Dio worked together, Pucci could just carry DIO away for a few years to get The World time stop up to I guess infinity. Then The World can yeet Kars into lava and with Time acceleration slowly down Kar's reaction. Tho I dunno if Kars would be immune to Time acceleration in the first time.

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    • but then again kar's cells react to touching organic matter with their acid attrabute thu melting his hand? kars ult-life make's dio's vamp obsolite XD

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    • just use The World to touch kars...

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    • owners take the same damage that their stands take with minor exepions like silver chariot with armor on tho i find this inconsistant

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    • Made In Heaven can’t slow people’s reactions. It only effects inanimate objects

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    • Also Kars can survive in Lava. DIO’s timestop is only 5 seconds and there’s no way he can bring him to a goddamn volcano

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    • What if he yeets him

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    • KarsMarsBars wrote:
      Made In Heaven can’t slow people’s reactions. It only effects inanimate objects

      Wrong, as every mangaka in the JoJoverse, save Rohan, felt all of their deadlines get close too quickly.

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    • Thats because time was accelerated so their deadlines were quicker. Also i messed up putting Kar's reaction but what I really meant was that the lava was gonna melt Kars faster

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    • it all depend on if they can get him into the volcano XD also i thought that dio's ts was 9 seconds post joseph drain and jotaro's ts was 5 seconds at peak,

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    • TW timestop is infinite but it capped at 9 seconds because Jotaro killed him. So if DIO survived part 3, TW's timestop would have increased infinitely. Star Platinum ts caps at 5 seconds no matter what.

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    • well there's no real way to prove that cause he's dead nine seconds could have been his limit and i don't think that the cap will keep increasing cause of his vamp he just said that eventually he'll have an endless timestop no real way to tell

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    • but eaither way realistically dio wouldn't be able to do enough damage to kars to kill him in timestop nor would pucci be able to fully destroy him, he'll just tank it all and regen

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    • we have proof, just take 9 seconds to search up The World and read the wiki page.

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    • yeah i'v seen it but there's nothing to back it up, like don't get me wrong TW is my fav stand second to silver chariot but yeah

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    • Are you actually sure you read it? It has a source linking it to JoJo6251 which is by Araki...

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    • yeah but it didn't say anything about it just led to some book about character modelling and art

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    • Where does it say his timestop is infinite? It was never infinite because DIO needed to heal his body to extend the timestop limit

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    • Are you actually sure you read it? It has a source linking it to JoJo6251 which is by Araki...

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    • Well, this was idiotic...

      Capture

      Watch and lear-

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    • Kars might not be fully dead though becaus if he is the ultimate lifeform he could adapt to having an autonomous nervous system or something. For example, jellyfish don't have brains, so even if he is "brain dead," he could use something like this to survive.

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    • Since when did Kars die? Its stated that he wished for death but couldn't die due to becoming the ultimate lifeform.

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    • Kars can literally take the form of any life form that has and ever will exist.

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    • kars anti alive

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    • Kars is aliven't

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    • Kars is alive but he stopped tjimmk amd he could land on planet becuas it bean mqny years he prob in bl0ck hoe beeeeaaaacccchhh

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    • Kars b dead

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      • Kars cant die*
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    • Kars is deader than a doorknob

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    • Kars can't die 

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    • Kars can't live

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    • So far i believe is the head doctor or Valentine

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    • In my opinion 1.) (non canon) Heaven Accended Dio (He can overwrite reality with just a punch which can negate the likes of golden experience requiems return to zero) 1.) Enrico Pucci (he isnt the strongest he just has the best ability) 2.) Kars (he is physically the strongest jojo villian) 3.) Dio Brando (second strongest due to being able to stop time and being a vampire)

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    • WHandingVxrtex wrote:
      In my opinion

      1.) (non canon) Heaven Accended Dio (He can overwrite reality with just a punch which can negate the likes of golden experience requiems return to zero) 1.) Enrico Pucci (he isnt the strongest he just has the best ability) 2.) Kars (he is physically the strongest jojo villian) 3.) Dio Brando (second strongest due to being able to stop time and being a vampire)

      What of Funny Valentine and Yoshikage Kira?

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    • Kars cant do anything to a stand user since he cant see them

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    • You're implying Stand users can't be seen?

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    • Ultimate kars can sense movement in the air. I'm sure he could dodge a stand that way

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    • DIO OF COURSE

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    • Kars for me I do think he can develop a far more stronger stand than the OH of DIO if he was agaisnt him

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    • Pucchi is a weird case, he is super powerful, but he also gets killed by a kid who he felt remorse for.

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    • LarcadeDragneel01 wrote: Kars for me I do think he can develop a far more stronger stand than the OH of DIO if he was agaisnt him

      That'd only work if Kars knew what stands were and how they work, and also his reality manipulating hax could just poof Kars, he just needs a single touch, then it's over

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    • DIOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

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    • Pucci, Because He literally Reset The Universe

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    • can someone close all of these old and overused threads?

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    • Dman1222222222 wrote: Pucci, Because He literally Reset The Universe

      Who's to say DIO can't overcome that

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    • XZero700 wrote:

      Dman1222222222 wrote: Pucci, Because He literally Reset The Universe

      Who's to say DIO can't overcome that

      i mean Dio can Stop time so Maybe You Are Right
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    • DIO can literally do what Jotaro did, but succeed, due to caring for nearly nobody

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    • It really depends on whether or not Made in Heaven could break through Love Train. Gravity is Love Train's weakness, and Made in Heaven manipulates gravity in order to speed up time, but it doesn't have the direct control over gravity that Ball Breaker and Tusk ACT 4 have.

      If it can't, then it's definitely D4C: Love Train. Pucci can't do anything to Valentine if he can't break through Love Train. If it can though, then it's def a Pucci win, with Made in Heaven being one of the few Stands that could put down Valentine in one hit. It all depends on Love Train.

      Kars is s solid 3rd, behind those two. Made in Heaven can manipulate fate to some extent, and not even Kars can keep up with its infinite speed. D4C can just send Kars to another universe, and without the ability to see Stands, there's not really anything Kars can do to stop it. The incredible destructive capabilities of D4C plus an unbreakable dimensional barrier? That's pretty much unstoppable.

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    • XZero700 wrote: DIO can literally do what Jotaro did, but succeed, due to caring for nearly nobody

      Even if Jolyne wasn't there and Jotaro didn't need to protect her, Jotaro would still lose to Made in Heaven in a 1v1.

      Keep in mind, not even Star Platinum was fast or precise enough to tell when Made in Heaven was about to attack. Jotaro had to rely on Diver Down in order to know when to stop time. Without Anasui's help, Jotaro couldn't have gotten the timing right and Pucci would've killed him right away.

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    • I'm not talking about Jotaro here, i'm talking about DIO, take note DIO is typically stronger than Jotaro, it's just Jotaro bullshitted his win, DIO is also a vampire, basically meaning he is better than a normal human in nearly every category, so if we take that into consideration, i'm sure DIO could react to Pucci with medium difficulty

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    • XZero700 wrote: I'm not talking about Jotaro here, i'm talking about DIO, take note DIO is typically stronger than Jotaro, it's just Jotaro bullshitted his win, DIO is also a vampire, basically meaning he is better than a normal human in nearly every category, so if we take that into consideration, i'm sure DIO could react to Pucci with medium difficulty

      That's just speculation. Both in and out of universe sources confirm Star Platinum and The World are nearly exactly the same. If anything, Star Platinum is slightly more powerful, as it's shown to overpower The World in direct combat even after DIO drank Joseph's blood.

      DIO might have an advantage with his vampiric regeneration, but Made in Heaven is one of the few Stands that could one-shot DIO. Not to mention, the sun is almost always in the sky when Made in Heaven speeds up time, so DIO would likely burn to death almost immediately.

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    • Can he beat goku tho?

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    • I dont think

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    • Dwdt
      Dwdt removed this reply because:
      oops
      06:37, July 3, 2020
      This reply has been removed
    • It would end in a stalemate, GER isn't physically powerful enough to even damage Goku, but Goku can't attack GER whatsoever so...

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    • XZero700 wrote: It would end in a stalemate, GER isn't physically powerful enough to even damage Goku, but Goku can't attack GER whatsoever so...

      Goku can still kill Giorno?

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    • Riseti wrote:

      XZero700 wrote: It would end in a stalemate, GER isn't physically powerful enough to even damage Goku, but Goku can't attack GER whatsoever so...

      Dunno, base Super Goku could be hurt by bullets and GER punches are way stronger. Does transforming counts as an action against GER though? Cause if it does GER may reset that to zero as well.

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    • GER would attack anyone who harms Giorno

      A transformation wouldnt do that

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    • Riseti wrote:
      GER would attack anyone who harms Giorno

      A transformation wouldnt do that

      But what about that part about actions and will? Unless Goku's on the defensive (GER's RtZ seems to be totally defense-based) the will behind the transformation may be considered as hostile as a mere punch.

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    • in my opinion kars is the strongest villain because he achieved immortality after becoming the ultimate life form ie if Pucci cut the kars in half he will regenerate and keep fighting they would continue to fight until Pucci gets tired and kars the would defeat

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    • DirePresent wrote:

      Riseti wrote:

      XZero700 wrote: It would end in a stalemate, GER isn't physically powerful enough to even damage Goku, but Goku can't attack GER whatsoever so...

      Dunno, base Super Goku could be hurt by bullets and GER punches are way stronger. Does transforming counts as an action against GER though? Cause if it does GER may reset that to zero as well.

      I mean I guess but that was Goku when he was 'RuSTy' (which imo is complete BS) And if we're talking about Goku in his prime (Which in rn after the Broly Movie) Then we end in a stalemate, One of the most physically powerful characters in Anime vs A character with probably the best defensive ability in all of Anime

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    • Also Goku and the other DBZ's power level allows them to do so many broken stuff. Goku literally moves in stopped time in the Super anime and several characters are able to break dimensional barriers with screams in Z! They may be more than able to bypass anything GER may do with only sheer power.

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    • This isn't a "JoJo vs Dragonball" thread. Stay on topic.

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    • DraculaCronqvist wrote:
      This isn't a "JoJo vs Dragonball" thread. Stay on topic.

      Ah crap, sorry. I speedread the notification and thought I was answering on this thread asking if anything can beat GER

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    • Ultimate Kars can absorb any Stand the is. He's the most powerful villain and character in JoJo.

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    • Spinojirasaurus140 wrote: Ultimate Kars can absorb any Stand the is. He's the most powerful villain and character in JoJo.

      Kars never was shown to absorb stands, even in his ultimate form, and even if he could, he doesn't know what stands are anyways so Kars wouldn't be able to beat GER

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    • DirePresent wrote: Also Goku and the other DBZ's power level allows them to do so many broken stuff. Goku literally moves in stopped time in the Super anime and several characters are able to break dimensional barriers with screams in Z! They may be more than able to bypass anything GER may do with only sheer power.

      I doubt someone could just break something that just reverts actions, that just doesn't make sense in the slightest, Also a bit of a nitpick but Goku broke through half a second of SKIPPED time, That means he could only move half a second in Diavolo's skipped time of 10 seconds.

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    • Definitely Pucci. All the other villains don't stand a chance against Made in Heaven. It's almost invincible. Even though someone like DIO can stop time, I doubt he would last even ten minutes in a fight against Pucci.

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    • DZeP wrote:
      Definitely Pucci. All the other villains don't stand a chance against Made in Heaven. It's almost invincible. Even though someone like DIO can stop time, I doubt he would last even ten minutes in a fight against Pucci.

      How would Pucci even strike Funny Valentine? Or pursue the Head Doctor (if Satoru Akefu or whatever he is, is the main villian of part 8)?

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    • DirePresent wrote: How would Pucci even strike Funny Valentine? Or pursue the Head Doctor (if Satoru Akefu or whatever he is, is the main villian of part 8)?

      It's stated that, in Jojo, gravity is a transdimensional force. That's how Tusk and Ball Breaker are able to break through Love Train. Since Made in Heaven speeds up time through gravity manipulation, it's possible it could break through Love Train, too.

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    • Kingasdfg wrote:

      It's stated that, in Jojo, gravity is a transdimensional force. That's how Tusk and Ball Breaker are able to break through Love Train. Since Made in Heaven speeds up time through gravity manipulation, it's possible it could break through Love Train, too.

      True. probable, yet not definitive (As always).

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    • Boysmith2003 wrote:
      KarsMarsBars wrote:
      Wouldn’t it function differently for him? I mean he’s the ultimate Lifeform. He could be braindead but his body could still very much be alive.
      Do you comprehend the meaning of "braindeath"?

      He's mentally vegetative, and eventually, his body will shut down entirely. He's dead.

      why are you applying human medical science to a fictional character who's proven to be unkillable

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    • He isnt technically unkillable in the canon jojo series

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    • he lived after being shot into space, don't know how you get more unkillable than that

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    • DewdOfStuff wrote: he lived after being shot into space, don't know how you get more unkillable than that

      Well Kars was removed from the story before Stands were introduced. Kars can regenerate, but it takes time. So Stands with very fast destructive abilities can take him out, like Killer Queen, Cream, The Hand, or D4C.

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    • Kingasdfg wrote:

      DewdOfStuff wrote: he lived after being shot into space, don't know how you get more unkillable than that

      Well Kars was removed from the story before Stands were introduced. Kars can regenerate, but it takes time. So Stands with very fast destructive abilities can take him out, like Killer Queen, Cream, The Hand, or D4C.

      cream can't kill him it just traps him

      well actually that is true kira kuin and za hando could kill him, haven't read SBR so i don't know what d4c is

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    • Cream erases things from existence its not trapping them

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    • it's literally stated that cream takes things to an alternate dimension, they still exist

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    • Are we talking main villains? If so, here's how I have them ranked, currently:


      7. Valentine ( Worst reaction speed, and Love Train is purely defensive. He doesn't have a reliable way to kill the others. )

      6. Kira ( Around light speed, but his range is terrible. Durability negation via Bombs 1 and 3 is pretty nice though. )

      5. Diavolo ( Also around light speed, but I'd assume he could be a little faster than Kira. Range also isn't good, but Epitath and Time Skip combined are pretty good. )

      4. DIO ( 306 times the speed of light, or 306c, which is pretty dang good. The World provides good defense against beings who can't harm, see, sense, or detect spirits, and Time Stop, of course. )

      3. Dio Brando ( Upscales from DIO, so should be a bit faster. Really great pain tolerance, good regeneration, freezing is a very good ability, and also has decent range via Space Ripper Stingy eyes. City Block+, in regards to Attack Power, or AP, and Durability I believe, which is actually the best in the list so far. Everyone else here is City Block at best. )

      2. Kars ( Upscales quite a bit from even Dio Brando, so he has a really good reaction speed. Can sense Stands, really good mobility, adaptability, and versatility. Has Town level durability I believe, which makes him immensely difficult to kill in the JoJo verse. )

      1. Pucci ( At worst, he has the second fastest reaction speed here, but considering he basically blitzed 306c, he should be a great deal faster than that. Made In Heaven makes him even faster, and grants him flight. )

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    • Zodazzle wrote:
       Also, since Love Train requires someone with Ticket to Ride (which requires them to have all corpse parts fused with them), it shouldn't be allowed. Valentine would need someone with Ticket to Ride next to them, which is basically bringing another player into the fight/ a 2v1. It's not fair to the other.

      And yeah, I've been thinking this as well. 

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    • I don't think that Pucci could acutally kill Kars, but due to his own speed, Kars isn't landing a hit either.

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    • And also I saw someone question how Multiversal Goku could ever hope to hurt ,CBat best, GER. 

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    • Where did you get the calculation for Dio being 306x the speed of light? I just want to know the logic.

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    • I'll be honest and say that I, myself, cannot do math, so any and all hard numbers I give come from other sources.

      It comes from Silver Chariot jumping up and killing Hanged Man, and due to how fast SC would need to move to do so, from its position, it would come out to 306c. Previously, this number was actually 365c, but someone in the Death Battle Discord recalced it, and it's now 306.

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    • DIO not being 306 actually screws over everyone else though, since all other Parts ( Minus 7 and 8 of course ) downscale or upscale from Part 3 in some way. 

      Parts 4 and 5 downscale, meaning they're slower, and 1, 2, and 6 upscale, meaning they're faster.

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    • I'm pretty sure the only Part to have any FTL or Light Speed feats on its own, without Part 3, is Part 2. Joseph and Caesar dodge an ( unexcpected ) laser from the Super Aja, which should be legitimate. Since scaling is a thing though, Part 2's a lot faster do to part 3, anyway.

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    • How tf is Part 1 Dio stronger than Part 3 Dio

      Like, I get Part 1 Dio is physically stronger, but "The World" is some major hax and should lead to DIO just lobbing his younger self's head off.

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    • Star Platinum couldn't do so to DIO, even though it was a killing blow, and Dio Brando is physically superior to DIO.

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    • Plus, with his added regen and pain tolerance, he wouldn't fall nearly as easily as DIO would. 

      Really though, I think DIOvDio would just be an overall stalemate, but if I had to choose a victor, I'd lean Dio Brando.

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    • Also, Dio would be able to kill Kira, Diavolo, and Valentine more easily compared to DIO, but the latter shouldn't have a ton of issue in the first place.

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    • Mystic Mania wrote: Also, Dio would be able to kill Kira, Diavolo, and Valentine more easily compared to DIO, but the latter shouldn't have a ton of issue in the first place.

      WHAT. Dio is easily the weakest villain in jojo he gets bodied by every other villain. Dio literally can’t see stands so he gets destroyed.

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    • If you can explain how Valentine, Kira, and Diavolo could just casually stroll up to 306c> Dio and kill him before he does so to them, then by all means.

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    • This is a similar assumption people have towards Jonathan, in regards to the JoJo BR. Just because he lacks a Stand in most arguments, they just default him to 8th, without consideration, I feel. It's the same for Dio Brando here.

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    • For DIO, Star Platinum just punched his head once for him to be reduced to crawling. I honestly think DIO could do a similar thing to his younger self if he just was able to punch more than once in stopped time

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    • Yeah, I see where you're coming from.

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    • Mystic Mania wrote: If you can explain how Valentine, Kira, and Diavolo could just casually stroll up to 306c> Dio and kill him before he does so to them, then by all means.

      Kira just needs to place a bomb on dio which would be incredibly easy since he can’t see the stand. Valentine just needs to send him over to another reality plus even if he was killed he could just transfer his stand. Diavolo can literally look into the future so I’m pretty sure he would be fine.

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    • Unfunnyvanlentine wrote:

      Mystic Mania wrote: If you can explain how Valentine, Kira, and Diavolo could just casually stroll up to 306c> Dio and kill him before he does so to them, then by all means.

      Kira just needs to place a bomb on dio which would be incredibly easy since he can’t see the stand. Valentine just needs to send him over to another reality plus even if he was killed he could just transfer his stand. Diavolo can literally look into the future so I’m pretty sure he would be fine.

      I'm pretty sure his point is it doesn't matter if Kira could instakill Dio if Dio blitzes him in terms of speed and, therefore, would just be killed by Dio before he even had the chance.

      I could see Sheer Heart Attack doing something, but even then if Dio figures out the weakness, he can freeze himself to have Sheer Heart Attack completely ignore him.

      The only real chances I see Kira has is if Dio was cocky and messed around with Kira before being blown up or if Bites the Dust was active and he asked "hey, what's your name lol"

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    • I really doubt dio is that fast

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    • I admit with scaling Crazy Diamond to Star Platinum (ableit, a bit rusty), Killer Queen should at least be relative to DIO in terms of speed

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    • I though dio was just a bit faster then the average man how on earth could he be 306 times faster then the speed of light. If anyone could provide some evidence or reasoning how he can do it would be appreciated because I’m very certain he cant

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    • Unfunnyvanlentine wrote:

      Mystic Mania wrote: If you can explain how Valentine, Kira, and Diavolo could just casually stroll up to 306c> Dio and kill him before he does so to them, then by all means.

      Kira just needs to place a bomb on dio which would be incredibly easy since he can’t see the stand. Valentine just needs to send him over to another reality plus even if he was killed he could just transfer his stand. Diavolo can literally look into the future so I’m pretty sure he would be fine.

      Killer Queen's range is basically non-existant, so considering Dio's own range and speed, that'll prove to be a test.

      Everyone here would kill Valentine either before or while he's trying to dimension jump them, so to speak. King Crimson just doesn't have the raw power to get past Dio's regen.

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    • Unfunnyvanlentine wrote:
      I though dio was just a bit faster then the average man how on earth could he be 306 times faster then the speed of light. If anyone could provide some evidence or reasoning how he can do it would be appreciated because I’m very certain he cant

      I can try to find a link to the Polneraff calc, but I know it'll say "365". Of course, just to be safe, I'll mention again that this calc's been recalced to "306".

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    • I've seen this calc before and it's bunk. It's someone taking Jojo's penchant for visual hyperbole far too seriously.

      Polnareff says himself that Silver Chariot cannot go to lightspeed. The only reason he's able to intercept The Hanged Man is because he knows exactly the path it's going to take. This is a Precision feat, not a Speed feat. A pitcher can throw a ball at 100mph but that doesn't mean the batter is moving at 100mph to hit it.

      If Silver Chariot could actually move at lightspeed nothing in the series could challenge him. No one can react to lightspeed because it would kill you before you could even register that it moved. This calc is operating under false assumptions and just doesn't make any sense.

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    • Even if he knew where Hanged Man was, he still needs to move in time to hit him, to begin with. But hey, even if Part 3 isn't lightspeed, that doesn't change my tiering for the villains at all, actually. If you'd like to be the guy to tell the entire VS community that FTL JoJo doesn't exist, then by all means.

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    • On the topic of speed, I was wondering how fast this feat was, with Secco throwing dozens of punches before the camera even lands in his hand, if it's already been calced before.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjXmxv0Z8X4

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    • Mystic Mania wrote: Even if he knew where Hanged Man was, he still needs to move in time to hit him, to begin with. But hey, even if Part 3 isn't lightspeed, that doesn't change my tiering for the villains at all, actually. If you'd like to be the guy to tell the entire VS community that FTL JoJo doesn't exist, then by all means.

      Believe me I've been trying for years. Hanged Man is lightspeed, Made in Heaven and possibly Notorious BIG are faster, that's it. Star Platinum and Silver Chariot are the next fastest and they don't even come close.

      As I said, hitting a 100mph baseball doesn't mean you move at 100mph.

      In my opinion, the tiers should go like this.

      1. D4C: Love Train. You've said it's purely defensive but a) it's completely and perfectly defensive and b) that's not even true. When Love Train is active, any damage Valentine inflicts moves to become lethal. That's how he killed Gyro. So if he hits you at all you lose, unless you have regen, but he has other ways to deal with that. He'd be much lower in the list without Love Train.

      2. Made in Heaven. It's not all that physically capable but it's the only one on this list with lightspeed. It takes him a while to warm up but once he gets going he's almost unstoppable. If his manipulation of gravity allowed him to break through Love Train, I'd give him first place.

      3. Ultimate Kars. He's got decent physical prowess but nothing remarkable compared to Stands. What he does have, though, is unsurpassed Hamon that can easily melt flesh and complete ridiculous adaptability and regen. Made in Heaven could one shot him and Valentine can send him to another world but everyone else would be fucked.

      4. DIO. Compared to his original form, his vampiric powers have taken quite a hit. But he still has decent regen and all other weaknesses are compensated by The World. It's one of the most physically capable Stands in the series, combined with its time stop it's almost unstoppable. But it can't break through Love Train, reach Made in Heaven or take down ultimate Kars.

      5. King Crimson. The only reason Diavolo is below DIO is because of DIO's regen. I personally think King Crimson has just as powerful an ability as The World, and combined with Epitaph, Diavolo should be unstoppable. But again, he doesn't have the ability to take out anyone higher on the list.

      6. Killer Queen. In terms of physical prowess, Killer Queen is the lowest of any antagonist Stand, though still more capable than any vampire or Pillarman. Even though it's bomb ability gives it one-shot potential, it's just too slow to take out anyone else on this list.

      7. Dio Brando. He's above human level, but not dramatically. Humans can keep up with him, even if it requires immense training, it's not impossible. Dio has better regen than his Part 3 counterpart and loads of vampiric powers, but none of that really matters since he's slower than even Killer Queen and can't see Stands.

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    • Kingasdfg wrote:

      Mystic Mania wrote: Even if he knew where Hanged Man was, he still needs to move in time to hit him, to begin with. But hey, even if Part 3 isn't lightspeed, that doesn't change my tiering for the villains at all, actually. If you'd like to be the guy to tell the entire VS community that FTL JoJo doesn't exist, then by all means.

      Believe me I've been trying for years. Hanged Man is lightspeed, Made in Heaven and possibly Notorious BIG are faster, that's it. Star Platinum and Silver Chariot are the next fastest and they don't even come close.

      As I said, hitting a 100mph baseball doesn't mean you move at 100mph.

      In my opinion, the tiers should go like this.

      1. D4C: Love Train. You've said it's purely defensive but a) it's completely and perfectly defensive and b) that's not even true. When Love Train is active, any damage Valentine inflicts moves to become lethal. That's how he killed Gyro. So if he hits you at all you lose, unless you have regen, but he has other ways to deal with that. He'd be much lower in the list without Love Train.

      2. Made in Heaven. It's not all that physically capable but it's the only one on this list with lightspeed. It takes him a while to warm up but once he gets going he's almost unstoppable. If his manipulation of gravity allowed him to break through Love Train, I'd give him first place.

      3. Ultimate Kars. He's got decent physical prowess but nothing remarkable compared to Stands. What he does have, though, is unsurpassed Hamon that can easily melt flesh and complete ridiculous adaptability and regen. Made in Heaven could one shot him and Valentine can send him to another world but everyone else would be fucked.

      4. DIO. Compared to his original form, his vampiric powers have taken quite a hit. But he still has decent regen and all other weaknesses are compensated by The World. It's one of the most physically capable Stands in the series, combined with its time stop it's almost unstoppable. But it can't break through Love Train, reach Made in Heaven or take down ultimate Kars.

      5. King Crimson. The only reason Diavolo is below DIO is because of DIO's regen. I personally think King Crimson has just as powerful an ability as The World, and combined with Epitaph, Diavolo should be unstoppable. But again, he doesn't have the ability to take out anyone higher on the list.

      6. Killer Queen. In terms of physical prowess, Killer Queen is the lowest of any antagonist Stand, though still more capable than any vampire or Pillarman. Even though it's bomb ability gives it one-shot potential, it's just too slow to take out anyone else on this list.

      7. Dio Brando. He's above human level, but not dramatically. Humans can keep up with him, even if it requires immense training, it's not impossible. Dio has better regen than his Part 3 counterpart and loads of vampiric powers, but none of that really matters since he's slower than even Killer Queen and can't see Stands.

      I completely agree with this. Personally I would put part 8s potential main villain at 2 but it may be too early to judge

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    • No offense but your list is basically the same as saying the JoJo list is: 

      "Jonathan, Joseph, Jolyne, Josuke, Gappy, Jotaro, Johnny, Giorno". You're making assumptions about certain stats that just aren't true ( such as Part 4 being faster than Part 1. ) Like, I agree with certain things you said, such as DIO not breaking Love Train, not catching up to MIH, and just not having the AP to kill Kars, but other things such as Valentine being able to pull Kars into another dimension before Kars can kill him just doesn't have anything solid backing it up.

      Also, I don't feel you really backed up why the Hanged Man feat isn't lightspeed. You just said it wasn't, but why? 

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    • Bruv in the anime it literally says he can’t catch up with hanged man so Polnareff puts him in a situation where he knows where he is going to be. If Polnareff is the speed your claiming surely he would have got him way earlier

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    • Also in the list he didn’t say valentine he said love train so there’s no way Kars is touchingly him

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    • Love Train's purely defensive, so

      And I see where you're coming from but the fact that he was able to catch up with Hanged Man means more than him simply saying he couldn't.

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    • Kars wouldn’t be able to hit valentine. Kars can’t hit or see stands. Valentine wins.

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    • Mystic Mania wrote: No offense but your list is basically the same as saying the JoJo list is: 

      "Jonathan, Joseph, Jolyne, Josuke, Gappy, Jotaro, Johnny, Giorno". You're making assumptions about certain stats that just aren't true ( such as Part 4 being faster than Part 1. ) Like, I agree with certain things you said, such as DIO not breaking Love Train, not catching up to MIH, and just not having the AP to kill Kars, but other things such as Valentine being able to pull Kars into another dimension before Kars can kill him just doesn't have anything solid backing it up.

      Also, I don't feel you really backed up why the Hanged Man feat isn't lightspeed. You just said it wasn't, but why? 

      Well I explicitly said that Valentine would be lower on the list without Love Train, but with Love Train, how is Kars going to stop him? He can't even touch him.

      I try to avoid assumptions whenever possible, but I'll include ones that I think are logical. As far as I remember, the fastest we ever see a character in parts 1 and 2 move is when they dodge Space Ripper Stingy Eyes, but we don't have any scaling to say how fast the Stingy Eyes are. Since there are no other moments in parts 1 or 2 indicate characters going above peak human speed, it's safe to assume they're rather slow compared to later character speeds.

      Comparatively, characters in the later parts scale much higher. Crazy Diamond can catch bullets and outspeed Killer Queen without much difficulty, Killer Queen can outspeed Echoes ACT 3, and Echoes ACT 3 can still move fast enough to distort the wind around it (much faster than any human). I try to avoid relying on Stand stats because they're mostly inconsistent horseshit. In general, throughout the entire series, the large majority of Stands outspeed humans by quite a margin.

      I've already explained the Hanged Man, but I guess I'll do it again: The Hanged Man is confirmed lightspeed. Polnareff is consistently unable to equal its speed, until he realizes he can intercept Hanged Man as long as he knows its trajectory. Polnareff explicitly states that he cannot hit something moving as fast as Hanged Man without knowing where it will go. So right away, we confirm that Silver Chariot can't even reach lightspeed, much less exceed it. However, Silver Chariot is still a very precise Stand, so as long as he knows where Hanged Man is going and when he's going to move there, he can time his hit just right and slice him.

      That's why I made the baseball comparison earlier. You can hit a baseball moving at 100mph without moving the bat at 100mph, as long as you know where the ball is going and when the pitcher throws it. The same is true of Silver Chariot, and we know it because Polnareff specifically says so. If Silver Chariot could outspeed Hanged Man, there would've been no point in Kakyoin's coin trick. The coin was necessary specifically because Silver Chariot isn't lightspeed.

      Feel free to criticize any points I've made. It's been a hot minute since I've read parts 1 and 2 so it's possible I've forgotten something.

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    • 1. Kars blitzes even without DIO upscaling, so there's that.

      2. Kars has far better range, mobility, and adaptability than Valentine.

      3. Kars has the ability to sense and feel the air and heat pressure around him, so even if he can't see Stands, he can detect them automatically.

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    • Unfunnyvanlentine wrote:

      I completely agree with this. Personally I would put part 8s potential main villain at 2 but it may be too early to judge

      You're probably right. The only reason I didn't include Wonder of U in the list was that his big fight isn't finished yet and we don't know it's limitations, if it has any.

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    • Mystic Mania wrote: 1. Kars blitzes even without DIO upscaling, so there's that.

      2. Kars has far better range, mobility, and adaptability than Valentine.

      3. Kars has the ability to sense and feel the air and heat pressure around him, so even if he can't see Stands, he can detect them automatically.

      Mate explain to me how Kars could break through Love Train?

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    • Really, the JoFoe BR ends in a stalemate. Kars' durability is way too high for Dio, DIO, or Diovolo to do anything against, Kira and Valentine could technically kill him with their base abilites, but because of their immensely short range, and his huge speed advantage over both, they'll die before they can fully take the chance. He could kill Pucci if he were to desummon Made In Heaven, but Pucci should be able to react to that, even in his base reaction speed. ( Unless he were caught off guard. ) But, Pucci while using MIH? Kars simply can't touch him. But due to Kars' regen and durability, Pucci can't actually kill him either.

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    • I think everyone agrees valentine loses to Kars 9 times out of 10 but we’re saying it’s love train. It is literally impossible for Kars to hit valentine. All valentine needs to do is send him to different reality then he wins.

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    • Mystic Mania wrote: Really, the JoFoe BR ends in a stalemate. Kars' durability is way too high for Dio, DIO, or Diovolo to do anything against, Kira and Valentine could technically kill him with their base abilites, but because of their immensely short range, and his huge speed advantage over both, they'll die before they can fully take the chance. He could kill Pucci if he were to desummon Made In Heaven, but Pucci should be able to react to that, even in his base reaction speed. ( Unless he were caught off guard. ) But, Pucci while using MIH? Kars simply can't touch him. But due to Kars' regen and durability, Pucci can't actually kill him either.

      Kars could still be killed though, if you destroy his brain faster than he can react, which is something Made in Heaven is capable of if it gets fast enough.

      And unless I'm forgetting something Kars isn't all that fast, is he? I mean he keeps up with Joseph in the plane but that's the fastest I remember him going.

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    • Part 2 literally has a feat of Joseph and Caesar dodging a laser made of light. That makes Kars the second fastest villain here, behind Pucci, if you don't buy FTL JoJo.

      Buying FTL JoJo just makes him much faster.

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    • And yeah, if Valentine did nothing but stay inside and camp within Love Train ( which he shouldn't even have in a VS debate, due to it requiring Lucy's presence iirc ), then nobody could kill him. But he, too, couldn't kill them while within Love Train, and considering the massive speed advantage everyone has here over Valentine ( and even still, if you don't buy FTL JoJo ), they'd kill him before he could bust it out.

      Also, there's three different speeds when it comes to VS matchups, I feel.

      1. Reaction

      2. Combat

      3. Movement

      Silver Chariot has 306c combat and reaction speeds specifically, not movement, unlike Hanged Man. I'm sorry, I should've specified earlier.

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    • Kingasdfg wrote:

      Mystic Mania wrote: Really, the JoFoe BR ends in a stalemate. Kars' durability is way too high for Dio, DIO, or Diovolo to do anything against, Kira and Valentine could technically kill him with their base abilites, but because of their immensely short range, and his huge speed advantage over both, they'll die before they can fully take the chance. He could kill Pucci if he were to desummon Made In Heaven, but Pucci should be able to react to that, even in his base reaction speed. ( Unless he were caught off guard. ) But, Pucci while using MIH? Kars simply can't touch him. But due to Kars' regen and durability, Pucci can't actually kill him either.

      Kars could still be killed though, if you destroy his brain faster than he can react, which is something Made in Heaven is capable of if it gets fast enough.

      And unless I'm forgetting something Kars isn't all that fast, is he? I mean he keeps up with Joseph in the plane but that's the fastest I remember him going.

      Kars could probably move as fast Wham ( I don’t know how to spell his name) when he conjoined soldiers near the start of part 2. That doesn’t really matter though since pucci would still be travelling infinitely faster then that

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    • Mystic Mania wrote: Part 2 literally has a feat of Joseph and Caesar dodging a laser made of light. That makes Kars the second fastest villain here, behind Pucci, if you don't buy FTL JoJo.

      Buying FTL JoJo just makes him much faster.

      Shit, really? I don't remember that at all.

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    • I don't blame you. It's a very brief moment.

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    • Also, I'm extremely sorry if I come across as rude at all. I'm not meaning to sound that way, but I still apologize regardless.

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    • it's fine if you're in a bad mood

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    • Mystic Mania wrote: Also, I'm extremely sorry if I come across as rude at all. I'm not meaning to sound that way, but I still apologize regardless.

      Nah man don't worry about it, you sounded fine. You clearly remember a lot more about parts 1 and 2 than I do so I'll trust you in this one.

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    • i think pucci is the strongest villain

      reasoning:

      he travels at infinite speed (you may say "oh but stand stats are inaccurate and unreliable" but "infinite" is an absolute value, not even araki can screw it up)

      his time acceleration does take time to get going, but if he plays smart he can easily get to a good speed

      pucci can shorten timestop

      he could potentially defeat kars, because, you know, infinite speed

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    • Apparently shortening timestop was a miss translation 

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    • You can't speed up time that's been stopped

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    • pucci decreased the length of a second, making jotaro's timestop shorter

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    • Time is stopped. You can't speed up stopped time, mate. The problem was WHEN jotaro needed to stop time.

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    • you aren't understanding

      he didn't do anything to stopped time

      when time accelerated, seconds became shorter

      jotaro's timestop is five seconds long

      since seconds are now shorter, jotaro's timestop is now four seconds long, since time is stopped for the same seconds that pass in regular time (oh god why is that so hard to describe)

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    • Yeah, I get that. I just don't get how time can be shortened when it's stopped completely. I know Jotaro says himself that his timestop was shortened, but that concept was scrapped in the following chapters.

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    • i mean it's called jojo's bizarre adventure for a reason

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    • Hm 

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    • Mystic Mania wrote:
      Are we talking main villains? If so, here's how I have them ranked, currently:


      7. Valentine ( Worst reaction speed, and Love Train is purely defensive. He doesn't have a reliable way to kill the others. )

      6. Kira ( Around light speed, but his range is terrible. Durability negation via Bombs 1 and 3 is pretty nice though. )

      5. Diavolo ( Also around light speed, but I'd assume he could be a little faster than Kira. Range also isn't good, but Epitath and Time Skip combined are pretty good. )

      4. DIO ( 306 times the speed of light, or 306c, which is pretty dang good. The World provides good defense against beings who can't harm, see, sense, or detect spirits, and Time Stop, of course. )

      3. Dio Brando ( Upscales from DIO, so should be a bit faster. Really great pain tolerance, good regeneration, freezing is a very good ability, and also has decent range via Space Ripper Stingy eyes. City Block+, in regards to Attack Power, or AP, and Durability I believe, which is actually the best in the list so far. Everyone else here is City Block at best. )

      2. Kars ( Upscales quite a bit from even Dio Brando, so he has a really good reaction speed. Can sense Stands, really good mobility, adaptability, and versatility. Has Town level durability I believe, which makes him immensely difficult to kill in the JoJo verse. )

      1. Pucci ( At worst, he has the second fastest reaction speed here, but considering he basically blitzed 306c, he should be a great deal faster than that. Made In Heaven makes him even faster, and grants him flight. )



      where did the terms "city block level" or "town level" come from, it just sounds like the power scaling in some stupid mobile game

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    • KarsMarsBars wrote:
      Yeah, I get that. I just don't get how time can be shortened when it's stopped completely. I know Jotaro says himself that his timestop was shortened, but that concept was scrapped in the following chapters.

      They both manipulate gravity to manipulate time so I was thinking if Jotaro stops time during time being sped up his timestop would be sped up as well since the flow of time he is stopping is being altered to being sped up but if he stopped time during time flowing normally his timestop would persist normally.

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    • DewdOfStuff wrote:
      Mystic Mania wrote:
      Are we talking main villains? If so, here's how I have them ranked, currently:


      7. Valentine ( Worst reaction speed, and Love Train is purely defensive. He doesn't have a reliable way to kill the others. )

      6. Kira ( Around light speed, but his range is terrible. Durability negation via Bombs 1 and 3 is pretty nice though. )

      5. Diavolo ( Also around light speed, but I'd assume he could be a little faster than Kira. Range also isn't good, but Epitath and Time Skip combined are pretty good. )

      4. DIO ( 306 times the speed of light, or 306c, which is pretty dang good. The World provides good defense against beings who can't harm, see, sense, or detect spirits, and Time Stop, of course. )

      3. Dio Brando ( Upscales from DIO, so should be a bit faster. Really great pain tolerance, good regeneration, freezing is a very good ability, and also has decent range via Space Ripper Stingy eyes. City Block+, in regards to Attack Power, or AP, and Durability I believe, which is actually the best in the list so far. Everyone else here is City Block at best. )

      2. Kars ( Upscales quite a bit from even Dio Brando, so he has a really good reaction speed. Can sense Stands, really good mobility, adaptability, and versatility. Has Town level durability I believe, which makes him immensely difficult to kill in the JoJo verse. )

      1. Pucci ( At worst, he has the second fastest reaction speed here, but considering he basically blitzed 306c, he should be a great deal faster than that. Made In Heaven makes him even faster, and grants him flight. )



      where did the terms "city block level" or "town level" come from, it just sounds like the power scaling in some stupid mobile game

      Yeah same JoJo and power scaling really don't work in all honesty.

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    • Even just me from a year ago would basically deny the usage of scaling, but, if it's solid, then

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    • Also, I'm actually changing my tiering a little. I'll put Kars above, or equal to, Pucci. Pucci doesn't really have any way to kill Kars, due to his ( for JoJo standards ) extremely good durability. Not only could Kars create things to enhance that durability even further, but he can grow and change his body rapidly at a cellular level, whch actually grants him great recovery. 

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    • Spoilers for the final arc of Part 6: Stone Ocean Template:HideSpoilers

      i don't know how to spoiler tag on this wiki oh no

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    • Mystic Mania wrote: Spoilers for the final arc of Part 6: Stone Ocean Template:HideSpoilers

      i don't know how to spoiler tag on this wiki oh no

      I agree. I don’t think pucci would strong enough to pierce Kars body but Kars isn’t fast enough to catch up with pucci so it’s practically a draw.

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    • Right, that's basically where I'm thinking for this too. Granted, Kars could technically kill Pucci were he sto desummon Made In Heaven, but that'd likely require Pucci searching for Kars, and that's unlikely to happen. I believe its a stalemate.

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    • Kars could theoritcally turn a strand of his hair into millions of deadly bacteria like Salmonella or Necrotizing Fasciitis  undectically. It's cheap but since when was Kars above cheap?

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    • I know what you mean, and you do have a point. Kars, iirc, is the "Mew" of JoJo, and has the DNA of literally every species of whatever within himself, so anything any animal and plant can do, he should be able to do the same.

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    • he also outperforms every organism so that would probably kil people in seconds

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    • Kars died because Joseph said "Kono JoJoa"

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    • kars diedn't

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    • Oh yeah, I forgot. Sorry

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    • Boysmith2003 wrote:
      Zodazzle wrote:
      The strongest is Pucci. Made In Heaven is the second strongest stand in Jojo and Funny Valentine wouldn't be able to react to it's ability. If this was just a blind fight where they both provoked each other, Valentine wouldn't know that he would need D4C Love Train, and probably wouldn't have the means to use it anyway. Pucci has been able to win against characters with great reaction timing, and Valentine is nothing different. He's just too fast for D4C.
      When doing versus debates, a general rule of thumb is that during the fight all characters are in their prime state of power, so assuming this, Valentine  would indeed have Love Train.

      Now as for my opinion on this, due to Kars' ability to adapt to everything that comes his way, Kars would take out Yoshikage Kira, and Diovalo. However, this leaves DIO and Pucci. Pucci would fight along with DIO, and the two would murder Kars, as well as any other survivors(with the exception of Valentine), as the ability to reset reality and stop time is so broken that almost nothing can beat it. Since we're allowing characters in their prime, yes HA DIO would be allowed, which means DIO would ultimately win if he got off a reality overwrite before Pucci. Pucci wins this otherwise.

      Kars is unkillable

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    • Plus, due to Hamon and raw durability, DIO can't do much of anything to him.

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    • Funnily enough, I think if Kars got caught in another dimension with D4C somehow and touched himself, he'd lose.

      Jojo is just full of hax abilities which is really cool I think

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    • Wammu is the strongest. The divine sandstorm could grind everyone to dirt

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    • Yeah, but losing a chariot race was his end

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    • I only watched until part 5, so up to part 5 i'd say Kars is the strongest, Dio, Kira or Diavolo the most dangerous

      Reasons: Dio can stop time and hit you (idk how many times, but I can assume around 100 times per second, during 9 seconds by saying his stand is as fast as crazy diamond which is around 300 km/h said by Josuke, if you survive you will be sent flying just like Kakyoin did, and Kakyoin was sent flying that much with only one punch. I'd say around 50 meters). So just Dio stopping time and hitting you as many times as he can will send you around 45 kilometers. Which, if he does perfectly, could send Kars to space so he stops thinking.

      Kira can go back in time and his explosions make dissapear anything that explodes by them, so if he touches you you're already dead.

      Diavolo just by erasing time is already extremely dangerous, he could be able to see what you're going to do using Epitaph, and erase that? I'm confused on how it works. But that's how I think it works

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    • dio over heaven is the strongest (shut up i don't care if it's non-canon)

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    • Actually, Heaven Ascension DIO would still lose in the JoFoe Battle Royale.

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    • Reality Overwrite can only be activated via hitting something with your hands, and he gets AP stomped, blitzed, etc.

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    • In theory TWOH might still be destroyed by WoU

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    • Couldn't Over Heaven DIO Time Stop to close the distance?

      I also recall him having more advanced Regen than regular DIO since Star Platinum's punch to the head got near-instantly healed

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    • Creeperman129 wrote: Couldn't Over Heaven DIO Time Stop to close the distance?

      I also recall him having more advanced Regen than regular DIO since Star Platinum's punch to the head got near-instantly healed

      If your responding to me Yes he could time stop to close the distance but technically him time stopping is an act of pursuit. I say WoU could win in theory because if his is ability really does have something to do with karma dio would be screwed. With all the terrible things dio has done especially over heaven dio it’s likely he might die instantly. If WoU isnt based on karma WoU is screwed.

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    • Mystic Mania wrote: Reality Overwrite can only be activated via hitting something with your hands, and he gets AP stomped, blitzed, etc.

      Also what does AP mean?

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    • Unfunnyvanlentine wrote:

      Creeperman129 wrote: Couldn't Over Heaven DIO Time Stop to close the distance?

      I also recall him having more advanced Regen than regular DIO since Star Platinum's punch to the head got near-instantly healed

      If your responding to me Yes he could time stop to close the distance but technically him time stopping is an act of pursuit. I say WoU could win in theory because if his is ability really does have something to do with karma dio would be screwed. With all the terrible things dio has done especially over heaven dio it’s likely he might die instantly. If WoU isnt based on karma WoU is screwed.

      I was responding to Misty lol

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    • My bad. AP is a term meaning, "Attack Power".

      And yes, his regen is seriously great. Like, really. But, due to Kars' AP, and Hamon, as well as Pucci's sheer speed in MIH, I feel they could bypass it. If DIO had the durability of Kars, then that'd be a bit different.

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    • but dio just overwrites himself to be omnipotent and just obliterates everyone

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    • He should do that, but considering the end of EOH, he wouldn't.

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    • he learns from his mistake

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    • In terms of straight up fighting ability, I think Kars is the strongest as hes basically unkilable by direct attacks and could only be killed by some kind of reality bending power.

      Apart from that Pucci is absolutely the most powerful. MiH is unbeatable except for maybe GER

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    • MiH is definitely not unbeatable. Jotaro had almost hit Pucci with the combined efforts of Anasui and his timestop. If he could get that close, just imagine how close someone like Diavolo could get. He can see the future.

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    • if pucci is smart then mih is definitely unbeatable, imagine mih with a smart, skilled user

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    • MiH is very strong, but like every other Stand in JoJo, it's beatable. Diavolo won't be the one to do Pucci in though, if anyone can. Kars and Pucci are the only two here capable of taking the other out, legitimately. Yoshikage could blow them up, but, he won't.

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    • I mean Diavolo could take out MiH. It’s not likely but he could

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    • Well right, technically, but the chance of it happening is immensely low, unfortunately. Diavolo's my favorite JoFoe currently, but he only really beats two people in the BR.

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    • Are you using love train valentine or just normal d4c because I would argue KC bodies valentine

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    • I'm giving him Love Train, but two things:

      1. I'm honestly mostly doing it out of courtesy, as I'm doubtful he'd actually have Love Train in like, a Death Battle, or a VS matchup.

      2. I think he loses regardless.

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    • Mystic Mania wrote: I'm giving him Love Train, but two things:

      1. I'm honestly mostly doing it out of courtesy, as I'm doubtful he'd actually have Love Train in like, a Death Battle, or a VS matchup.

      2. I think he loses regardless.

      But how does he lose with love train. Now that he has love train he can kill Kars with no risk and it just becomes a standstill between pucci and valentine

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    • How does he kill Kars?

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    • Mystic Mania wrote: How does he kill Kars?

      If valentine sends Kars to another universe Kars would die

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    • Yes, but he'll die before he can pull Kars over.

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    • Mystic Mania wrote: Yes, but he'll die before he can pull Kars over.

      How though he can’t be hit while in love train

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    • And he can't force Kars over while using Love Tarin. Even if he could, Kars can react far faster than Valentine, and has far better mobility, so Valentine isn't catching him to begin with.

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    • Mystic Mania wrote:
      And he can't force Kars over while using Love Tarin. Even if he could, Kars can react far faster than Valentine, and has far better mobility, so Valentine isn't catching him to begin with.

      If valentine throws his jacket over kars hes gone. and who's to say that kars would react. kars would have zero understanding of how d4c would work.

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    • I mean if Valentine throws anythting at Kars I doubt the ancient almighty being would think, "you know,im curious..".

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    • Plus, with his sheer speed, he coud kill Valentine before the process is complete.

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    • Mystic Mania wrote:
      Plus, with his sheer speed, he coud kill Valentine before the process is complete.

      But how is he going to get valentine?

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    • Blitzing or just raw area destruction is an option, but he also has ranged attacks, as well as Hamon.

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    • But its love train. if it was normal valentine he would be dead within a second but since its love train its next to impossible to touch him

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    • Blitzing isn't really even an option, Love Train would just reroute any attack thrown at Valentine.

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    • In the jojo br this how I think it would go Down (just because someone’s higher on the list doesn’t mean they’re are stronger then someone else it just means they’re more likely to survive longer) also it’s only main villains from part 1-7.

      1love train - MIH They can’t attack each other so it becomes a standstill. I am leaning more to Valentine though

      2 Kars Kars is near invincible but valentine would eventually kill him

      3 Diavolo With time erasure and epitaph it would be incredibly hard to kill him

      4 DIO

      5 Kira

      6 Dio Brando He’s the weakest of the villains

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    • Valentine literally can't attack anyone within Love Train though, and everyone blitzes him regardless.

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    • Kars legit has every advantage over Valentine, so I can't see Valentine getting beyond 7th place at best.

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    • Mystic Mania wrote:
      Valentine literally can't attack anyone within Love Train though, and everyone blitzes him regardless.

      HOW THOUGH. vanlentine can send his stand out and kars cant touch his stand. even if you want to believe the other stand users would have the opportunity to attack him if he sent out d4c, valentine could just sit it out untill most of the of the competitors are dead.

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    • Plus if hes mortally injured he can transfer his stand over to another valentine

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    • A FANDOM user
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